Expectations

1engineer

1engineer

Moderator
Lately I have been reading in the 5th gen section of people lamenting the lack of features in a 4Runner. Even when a feature is included or purchased some don't like the operation. Why is this? Do people not test drive? Do people not ask questions? Given salesman's reputations, do people actually believe the words coming out of their mouths? Obviously I would ask about people actually researching a vehicle by reading up on one before spending this much money but that would be futile. I know people don't read anymore as evidenced by the questions asked here when the owner's manual or the Toyota website has the answers. One of the most grating reads goes something like this:

"I can't believe a $40,000 vehicle does not have "X" option!"

Newsflash: In 2013 the AVERAGE price of a new vehicle was $32,000. In 2014 the AVERAGE price of a pickup truck was over $40,000! $40K is not a lot of money for a vehicle anymore guys. Go look at list prices (list prices, not some massive discount scheme Jeep offers) for vehicles that are in the Toyota 4Runner class. Yeah, $40K is a pretty good deal compared to the competition.

I'm pretty sure Toyota does not use false advertising or bait and switch tactics when selling a vehicle. I have went to the Toyota website many times and every package and option is spelled out in 4th grade reading comprehension. As far as operating any of the controls and features, the owner's manual is the ultimate resource. If you need deeper knowledge, TIS offers a two day membership for a nominal fee.

Human nature dictates what people want. Simply put they want everything for nothing. After reading thousands of threads this is my conclusion:

1. People want every cool and new option available
2. People want the vehicle to get Prius efficiency numbers
3. People want the ruggedness of a Unimog
4. People want the ride of a Bentley
5. People want the handling of a Ferrari
6. People want the reliability and durability of an anvil
7. People want the power of a Hellcat
8. People DO NOT want their vehicle to obey the laws of Physics
9. People DO NOT want to pay for any of the above.

Toyota makes a really nice upscale SUV called the Land Cruiser. It has many more features and is only $80,000.

Now I ask, is my list wrong?
 
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I guess I'm a contrarian. I buy my vehicles new, keep them forever and only want "features" that I actually need and will use. I bought my Chevy S10 fifteen years ago without power windows, power locks or power mirrors. Consequently, I've never had to repair any of them. I'm selling it this week with 150,000 miles on it. Back on topic (T4R), I have factory ordered (not "special ordered," but actually ordered from Japan with the normal 3 month wait) two recent 4Runners, specifically to get them without things I don't want (in my case, 4WD and Nav). I definitely don't want a sun roof, power hatch, dual zone A/C or a bunch of off-road capabilities that I will never use. A 2WD will run down a dirt road just fine and, beyond that, I have no interest in taking my vehicle somewhere to get scratched, dented, stuck, etc. Again, I'm sure that makes me a contrarian to many of the enthusiasts in this forum. Hopefully I won't get beat up too bad for this. :rockthrow:
 
NMJack:

I couldn't agree more. My 2WD gets me everywhere I need to go quite nicely.
The simpler - the better. Map reading appears to be a lost art. I understand navigation in a Boeing 737, but you need navigation to figure out how to get from Dallas Tx. to Oklahoma City Okla? Yes - my 2WD SR5 T4R has NAV and I doubt I will ever waste my time learning how to use it.

The people that [MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION] describes are the same people that ***** and scream when their employer doesn't give them a 15% pay raise every year.
 
get+off+my+lawn.jpg
 
I bought an SR5 simply b/c I didn't need all the other bells & whistles. Thanks to this forum I had plenty of time to read about many of the options, owners pros/cons on various features, and factor all of that into my budget and driving needs. Found a used TEP for $8k more than what I paid for my used SR5 at the time, and as nice as it was and how "cool" the features would have been for the 1% off roading I have time for right now…it just didn't make sense.

There are some of us out there lurking, reading, actually using the search and not posting a lot of questions due to the advice and many posts from senior members such as yourself [MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION]. I certainly appreciate all the contributions informed folks like yourself bring to the forum!
 
Should I say that I hate to agree with you 1engineer? You hit the nail on the head.

This forum has some massive potential, but every other day there seems to be someone complaining about feature they don't have or that the acceleration is crap, or the interior design has some flaws. I have my own opinion and can post about all these things too, but why would I go off and purchase this vehicle and then rant about all the things I don't like about it? The way I see it is, I'll take the bad with the good, because in my opinion the good outweigh the bad.

Since we are on a rant subject, its interesting how many people post here asking about tire advise considering that many people have posted about tires on this forum and many other forums about the same tires they are considering.

And and about which lift is the best...wait, I think I'm ranting now, I'll stop there.
 
Hi 1E,

Neither C. Darwin, S. Freud, nor A. Ellis (R.E.B.T) could have worded that any more eloquently, or with any greater clarity!

After reading your signature "take no prisoners" style post, it occurred to me that 'common sense is no longer so common', neither is patience considered so virtuous, nor wisdom and understanding valued more precious than fine gold; kinda begs the question, ...where have we (our society) gone... "This forum needed that!"

PS: "After hearing that message I think I'll 'sleep in' from church today!" :sleepy:

riggy :pray: cheers!
 
Last edited:
1engineer said:
Lately I have been reading in the 5th gen section of people lamenting the lack of features in a 4Runner. Even when a feature is included or purchased some don't like the operation. Why is this? Do people not test drive? Do people not ask questions? Given salesman's reputations, do people actually believe the words coming out of their mouths? Obviously I would ask about people actually researching a vehicle by reading up on one before spending this much money but that would be futile. I know people don't read anymore as evidenced by the questions asked here when the owner's manual or the Toyota website has the answers. One of the most grating reads goes something like this:

"I can't believe a $40,000 vehicle does not have "X" option!"

Newsflash: In 2013 the AVERAGE price of a new vehicle was $32,000. In 2014 the AVERAGE price of a pickup truck was over $40,000! $40K is not a lot of money for a vehicle anymore guys. Go look at list prices (list prices, not some massive discount scheme Jeep offers) for vehicles that are in the Toyota 4Runner class. Yeah, $40K is a pretty good deal compared to the competition.

I'm pretty sure Toyota does not use false advertising or bait and switch tactics when selling a vehicle. I have went to the Toyota website many times and every package and option is spelled out in 4th grade reading comprehension. As far as operating any of the controls and features, the owner's manual is the ultimate resource. If you need deeper knowledge, TIS offers a two day membership for a nominal fee.

Human nature dictates what people want. Simply put they want everything for nothing. After reading thousands of threads this is my conclusion:

1. People want every cool and new option available
2. People want the vehicle to get Prius efficiency numbers
3. People want the ruggedness of a Unimog
4. People want the ride of a Bentley
5. People want the handling of a Ferrari
6. People want the reliability and durability of an anvil
7. People want the power of a Hellcat
8. People DO NOT want their vehicle to obey the laws of Physics
9. People DO NOT want to pay for any of the above.

Toyota makes a really nice upscale SUV called the Land Cruiser. It has many more features and is only $80,000.

Now I ask, is my list wrong?
Click to expand...

Jhalko said:
10. People do not understand the concept of inflation.
Click to expand...

Before I bought my new Rrunner, I did my research to make sure it was what I really wanted,(which wasn't much considering I already owned a 2000 4Runner)a solid SUV, built in Japan, true 4wd, a suspension I could modify later if needed/wanted, and a price tag I could afford. Now coming from a 2000 SR5 with p/windows and a sunroof, any new model would far surpass my expectations. Now the wife liked the Highlander but, we all know that doesn't fit any of my requirements so I got a 2014 LE and I'm happier than a pig in mud. So, with everything the 4Runner already was to me and adding everything it is now plus inflation, I feel the 4Runner is an amazing value. The only thing I was surprised by was that the memory button doesn't control the mirrors as well. So, with all that said, my only disagreement with 1engineer is There is no competition for the 4Runner.
 
narow37 said:
Before I bought my new Rrunner, I did my research to make sure it was what I really wanted,(which wasn't much considering I already owned a 2000 4Runner)a solid SUV, built in Japan, true 4wd, a suspension I could modify later if needed/wanted, and a price tag I could afford. Now coming from a 2000 SR5 with p/windows and a sunroof, any new model would far surpass my expectations. Now the wife liked the Highlander but, we all know that doesn't fit any of my requirements so I got a 2014 LE and I'm happier than a pig in mud. So, with everything the 4Runner already was to me and adding everything it is now plus inflation, I feel the 4Runner is an amazing value. The only thing I was surprised by was that the memory button doesn't control the mirrors as well. So, with all that said, my only disagreement with 1engineer is There is no competition for the 4Runner.
Click to expand...

All of this, well said. When I bought my '14 4WD Limited last year, I knew there wasn't a V8; I knew that sooner or later I'd want to switch to 17" wheels if I wanted real choices for tires; I knew that it only tow 5,000 pounds; I knew it was only going to get 16-18 MPG around town, etc..

I could not be happier with the my choice. I got what I wanted, and I thought the price was fair and equitable. With any luck at all, I'll have this vehicle for a long, long time.

-sjm
 
Really!!!! a supercharger....is it too much to ask for?! I agree with what you've said 1E, bought mine for $29k with 28kmi back in January and I feel like I stole it. It's nice to drive and look at. Huge upgrade coming from a FS Bronco.
Couldn't agree more with you - We are never satisfied. It's always someone else's fault. More more more, me me me. What can you do for ME. Walk in at exactly 9, walkin' out at 4:55....(I deserve a pay raise). Working "smarter" so I don't have to put in hard work.

2cents
 
Inflation!

The MSRP on my '97 SR5 was $32,885. Of course, that included upgrades such as the moonroof, a tow hitch, power windows, 6 speakers, and 16" wheels!

So check out the Bureau of Labor Statistics inflation calculator:
CPI Inflation Calculator

In 2014 Dollars, that $32,885 MSRP would be $48,770.40. For that, I could buy an LE and still have enough left over to do something crazy fun.
 
The only thing worse than people complaining about a lack of features is someone complaining about the people complaining about a lack of features.:snacker:
 
No, what's worse than that is the people complaining about the people complaining about the... the people who... the complainers, I mean, that are complaining about... the, uh... the stuff and the... the... um. Huh.

I think I'm lost. What were we talking about?
 
the people here that actually use their 4runner like the Land Cruiser bloodline intended them to, appreciate what the vehicle offers - because we've experienced FJ40's, Jeeps, 60 series, old Land Rovers.

what we have now are people who are complaining because they come from a prissy car and the mall parking lot. don't get me wrong i hate a rattle as much as the next person, or and wish various features (IE, the 4.7L V8) were available but many don't realize and appreciate what the 4runner is.
 
Preface: These forums can be super helpful and informative. I enjoy learning a lot front the knowledgeable base of members. I've been a part of audi forums, Subaru forums, triumph forums and others...none so judgemental as this one. And here comes the unpopular statement of the day...

You do see the irony with complaining about all of the underinformed people here, right?... I mean, it gives most of you 'senior' members purpose (specifically in this thread, 1e). That is to say, without questions from complete idiots like us you'd never have the opportunity to mount your soapboxes and hug that Internet lectern while we all marvel at the Socratic brilliance echoing down from Mt. Olympus.

In all seriousness though, people do need to level set their expectations on what they're buying, but as a group you could probably take it easy on them for asking what you think are completely idiotic questions (myself included). That is, unless you take great pleasure in massaging your own ego. In that case, well done.
 
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