Expectations

[Shawk00]

Wow... took a peak at this thread this morning and can't believe it's up to 3 pages now. It's one of those threads that should have been a one post wonder... Is E1 much more beautiful that he seem in his "did you try searching first!!" posts or something??? :bounce:

 

[03_4x4Runner]

Did the 4th gen rear seats recline?

My 03 SR5 did not. I do not know if any of the others did or not. The 4th gen cover had a flexible part similar to what I made but it attached with clips that clipped on the headrest post.

 

[Jhalko]

Wow... took a peak at this thread this morning and can't believe it's up to 3 pages now. It's one of those threads that should have been a one post wonder... Is E1 much more beautiful that he seem in his "did you try searching first!!" posts or something??? :bounce:

He simply posts what a lot of us are thinking, and he's really smart... In his mind at least.

:flipoff:

(The smilie is for 1E)

 

[Japsfinest]

Caveat emptor-

buyer beware- if as a buyer you don't take the time to do your due diligence and research, test drive, test, and approve than you don't have a leg to stand on when complaining about what is included and what is not.

Now to the inflation comment.... 40K today is not the same 40K of 2010 and much less than it was 10 years ago so yes prices have gone up and will continue to go up. OR manufactures will skimp in order to hit the aggressive margins that are necessary to keep shareholders happy....

 

[Mikeiy]

I have been a ghost on the form for a few months now. Watching in the shadows reading mods ect..

I just got a 2014 sr5 last month here are my problems with it.
• It is too nice, I cannot fix it my way whit out the live in personal assistant putting her $.02 in about me paying that much why does it need a flux capacitor. I have found myself looking at it wanting to take it apart like I did with my truck ( it was a Colorado no more needs to be said) . I however need to hide my tinkering on this ride from certain parties.

• I cannot figure out how not to have fun in it. The 4 runner has taken on a mind of its own; often it pulls me places that I should not be taking a new tuck, again the woman has begun inspecting it for unnatural dirt. She will not believe that the truck did it to its self. The truck in fact almost got me arrested on a test drive because of this (this really happened, I think the cop was stunned to see a dealer tag on it in that area of the hikeing trail). This accounts for my 17MPG which is the same I was getting in my old truck.

Really the only issues I have with the SR5 is that it has electronic 4x4, and a 5 speed. The problem that we face is the minivan mom crowd and Toyota has done a great job at targeting both markets.
Who is sneaking off to Moab with me tomorrow night before the snow hits?

 

[2014 Warthog]

What I wonder is how someone comes to the conclusion that because someone wants a feature that is missing from a vehicle that they are somehow "uninformed"

The answer to [MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION] 's question is exceedingly simple. He makes it complex by coming to an improper conclusion at the start then not letting the facts correct that conclusion.

Here it is: PEOPLE WANT TO OWN A TOYOTA!

Yes, people WANT an Toyota. REALLY BAD. They KNOW it is missing feature X, Y or Z, but they also know they don't want a Jeep!

So they buy the Toyota (Smart!) but there is that feeling that if Heep and others can add more features to cheaper cars, why can't their preferred and better overall option have them too?

Simple as that. These people are actually VERY informed, they KNOW what features other cars have.

And that list at the end is just inflammatory rhetoric

 

[Jernik]

Guess I'm the odd one, then. I did a ton of research, narrowed my selection by that research, and THEN went out and drove/compared my "finalists".

I'm getting old enough now that pricepoints are starting to bug me. The old "I remember when new cars used to only cost $X" thing. So I was pretty much ecstatic that I got what I did in the 4Runner for the price I paid.

10 Years ago, our JGC (Laredo, SE) stickered for somewhere around $35K. For that we got the I6, full time 4wd, sunroof, body colored side moldings, power front (cloth) seats, and an AM/FM radio with cassette player and 10 disc CD changer.

Compared to the TEP 4Runner: I lose the full time 4wd, but gain heated seats, reclining rear seats, heat/air to rear seats, Navigation, rear back up camera, mp3/ipod capability, a tow hitch receiver (towing capability!), more passenger/cargo room, heated mirrors, heated windshield washer fluid, additional accessory powerpoints, back window that rolls down, auto down AND up windows all around (really wanting this on all our other vehicles now) and what I feel is a better engine/transmission combination for all around use. Not to mention all of the off road control settings the TE 4R offers.

Our 4R stickered for $6K more than the 04 JGC (including $600 for running boards added at port which I promptly removed, so let's say $5K more). It's 10 years newer, has more options, and IMO is a much better vehicle all around (and we really liked the '04 JGC). The new JGC's, similarly optioned, were about another $6-$10K higher than the 4R (with some more electronic gadgetry). The only "contending" SUV I found for less money was the XTerra, and it was pretty basic and wasn't nearly as roomy/comfortable in comparison - even in Pro-4X trim.

So really, pound for pound, I think the 4Runner is a helluva deal for what you get.

 

[Ducmonsta]

I wonder if there's a Land Cruiser forum that's complaining about the rear window not rolling down for $80k? I can see it now, "But the measly $40k 4Runner has it...."

As with other threads out there, I don't usually post. I like to watch from the sidelines. But I think that some people have mistaken 1E's direct, no BS, suck it up responses as something negative. I enjoy them. As a matter of fact, I usually agree with them. I'm just too lazy to take the time to post a thread about it. If you don't want the truth, don't ask the question.

It's very similar to [MENTION=81573]Stifler[/MENTION]'s responses. They are very crass and almost A-holish. But they are very amusing if you get to know him and everyone here. Sometimes I do feel sorry for the fresh new members that come into this forum and read these responses. I can understand why they would be put off and not ever want to post again. Those are people that have never experienced other forums such as pirate or some of the jeep forums.

Here's how I view some of these infamous threads that 1E is talking about. I will watch it develop and in general, these are the responses I see.

1. The polite "search is your friend" post.
2. The polite "here's a link, but watch out for the search police" post.
3. The "why didn't you search first, you newb" post.
4. The Stifler post.
5. The "I agree with the OP, stop being so mean because you've been here for soooo long and you think this is your forum to monitor" post.

And usually they all get mixed up and intertwined within the OP's thread. And sometimes...sometimes, I feel bad for the OP because all he/she wanted to know was why the engine block looks cracked.

 

[Jayhawk5G]

What I wonder is how someone comes to the conclusion that because someone wants a feature that is missing from a vehicle that they are somehow "uninformed"

The answer to [MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION] 's question is exceedingly simple. He makes it complex by coming to an improper conclusion at the start then not letting the facts correct that conclusion.

1.Here it is: PEOPLE WANT TO OWN A TOYOTA!

2.Yes, people WANT an Toyota. REALLY BAD. They KNOW it is missing feature X, Y or Z, but they also know they don't want a Jeep!

3.So they buy the Toyota (Smart!) but there is that feeling that if Heep and others can add more features to cheaper cars, why can't their preferred and better overall option have them too?

Simple as that. These people are actually VERY informed, they KNOW what features other cars have.

1. I would argue the reason people want to own a Toyota is the reputation for reliability.

2. The reason they don't want a Jeep is they are notoriously unreliable, further see point 1.

3. This is invalid and actually strengthens 1engineer's first post. People want all things at all times without paying for them. If they want the features that cause unreliability, they can buy a Jeep. If they want the reliability but a few less features they can buy a 4Runner. In order to offer the features people want, while retaining BOF construction they would need to raise the price... which people wouldn't like.

 

[VolcanoT4R]

Did the 4th gen rear seats recline?

My 4th gen doesn't have third row seating, but from what I understand, the "2nd row" seats reclined if you had third row seats.

 

[1engineer]

What I wonder is how someone comes to the conclusion that because someone wants a feature that is missing from a vehicle that they are somehow "uninformed"

The answer to [MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION] 's question is exceedingly simple. He makes it complex by coming to an improper conclusion at the start then not letting the facts correct that conclusion.

Here it is: PEOPLE WANT TO OWN A TOYOTA!

Yes, people WANT an Toyota. REALLY BAD. They KNOW it is missing feature X, Y or Z, but they also know they don't want a Jeep!

So they buy the Toyota (Smart!) but there is that feeling that if Heep and others can add more features to cheaper cars, why can't their preferred and better overall option have them too?

Simple as that. These people are actually VERY informed, they KNOW what features other cars have.

And that list at the end is just inflammatory rhetoric

I posted my observations. I don't think people who buy a 4Runner are stupid. Far from it. I think for the most part they are pretty smart! I do think they are ignorant when it comes to vehicles though and I stated that. Nowhere did I mention raising kids, politics, sexual preference or anything else. Most people do not CARE about how something works, they just want it to work. Most do not CARE that the 4Runner's biggest feature, reliability and durability, is not listed on the sticker and quantified with a list price. They want something they can see and touch and they want it NOW, and if they find out they don't have it then they come to a public forum and complain about it! I listed an example of people thinking $40K for a vehicle should have a lot more features. How about this for an example: "I just bought a $40K 4WD vehicle and I have absolutely no idea how the 4WD system works!" Really? You bought a vehicle and you don't know how to use it? Even though the answer lies in that cute little book in the glove box?
Most people want much more than they get. That's human nature. My point was the incessant whining and complaining, and even when it is explained to them they act indignant! I read a post the other day and he had an issue based on pure operator error. Did he show remorse? No! He thought it should have been designed differently! That's what my post was about. Unreasonable expectations.
The list at the bottom is truth, not rhetoric. I exaggerated a bit on the comparisons but the gist is the same. Most want more everything and don't want to pay for it.
Oh, I have never heard of an improper conclusion drawn from an unquantifiable opinion. That's a new one on me.

 

[Intruder]

Those are people that have never experienced other forums such as pirate

I would love to see how long some of the people who get butt hurt over being told to search would last on pirate. All things considered this is a very tame and friendly forum compared to many others.

 

[03_4x4Runner]

I am pretty sure 1engineer is a spy working for Toyota. His job is to talk only positive about the 4runners to keep sales up. He would like to downsize the engine to a 1 cylinder Briggs and Stratton with a centrifugal clutch and then try to convince us it is adequate and quit complaining. He also want to make cruise control and power windows available only on the Limited models to cut cost. I see he has a new 2015, must have been a bonus from Toyota. :bounce:

 

[Saker]

I am pretty sure 1engineer is a spy working for Toyota. His job is to talk only positive about the 4runners to keep sales up. He would like to downsize the engine to a 1 cylinder Briggs and Stratton with a centrifugal clutch and then try to convince us it is adequate and quit complaining. He also want to make cruise control and power windows available only on the Limited models to cut cost. I see he has a new 2015, must have been a bonus from Toyota. :bounce:

:spy: ?





:snacker:

 

[Stifler]

I wonder if there's a Land Cruiser forum that's complaining about the rear window not rolling down for $80k? I can see it now, "But the measly $40k 4Runner has it...."

As with other threads out there, I don't usually post. I like to watch from the sidelines. But I think that some people have mistaken 1E's direct, no BS, suck it up responses as something negative. I enjoy them. As a matter of fact, I usually agree with them. I'm just too lazy to take the time to post a thread about it. If you don't want the truth, don't ask the question.

It's very similar to [MENTION=81573]Stifler[/MENTION]'s responses. They are very crass and almost A-holish. But they are very amusing if you get to know him and everyone here. Sometimes I do feel sorry for the fresh new members that come into this forum and read these responses. I can understand why they would be put off and not ever want to post again. Those are people that have never experienced other forums such as pirate or some of the jeep forums.

Here's how I view some of these infamous threads that 1E is talking about. I will watch it develop and in general, these are the responses I see.

1. The polite "search is your friend" post.
2. The polite "here's a link, but watch out for the search police" post.
3. The "why didn't you search first, you newb" post.
4. The Stifler post.
5. The "I agree with the OP, stop being so mean because you've been here for soooo long and you think this is your forum to monitor" post.

And usually they all get mixed up and intertwined within the OP's thread. And sometimes...sometimes, I feel bad for the OP because all he/she wanted to know was why the engine block looks cracked.

WAIT! are you telling me the landcrusier window doesnt roll down? what kind of shit is that? Thats it I am buying a Ford Expedition instead!

Sincerely
AHole

 

[1engineer]

I am pretty sure 1engineer is a spy working for Toyota. His job is to talk only positive about the 4runners to keep sales up. He would like to downsize the engine to a 1 cylinder Briggs and Stratton with a centrifugal clutch and then try to convince us it is adequate and quit complaining. He also want to make cruise control and power windows available only on the Limited models to cut cost. I see he has a new 2015, must have been a bonus from Toyota. :bounce:

Ha. I wouldn't last five minutes at Toyota. Guess what: The 4Runner is not perfect. My mirror is still whistling. I used to hit everything but the right homelink button at night before they were lighted. I think the ADD could be improved. My old Entune had graphics only and etch a sketch would love. But: I knew all this before buying and had no unrealistic EXPECTATIONS, unlike you. I don't come here and post how great and perfect my old vehicles were, unlike you. I got exactly what I wanted with the 4Runner. If I wanted different I would have bought different. Simple. I will admit I looked at a new LC before buying the latest 4Runner and I might still get one in a few years. Could the 5th gen have more features? Sure. Could it have a V8? Yep. Could it be just as reliable and durable as it is now with these additional options and engine? Absolutely. That's why I looked at a LC, because it already has all this today.

 

[2014 Warthog]

1. I would argue the reason people want to own a Toyota is the reputation for reliability.

2. The reason they don't want a Jeep is they are notoriously unreliable, further see point 1.

3. This is invalid and actually strengthens 1engineer's first post. People want all things at all times without paying for them. If they want the features that cause unreliability, they can buy a Jeep. If they want the reliability but a few less features they can buy a 4Runner. In order to offer the features people want, while retaining BOF construction they would need to raise the price... which people wouldn't like.

Well #1 and 2 are a given of course That's exactly what I meant and I think everyone here agrees that is the main reason they bought a Toyota, even if some thought they didn't have a feature or two they wanted on it.

#3 No it doesn't (Not that first sentence anyway). That would really only make sense if Toyota was the ONLY car manufacturer out there, but when someone sees other car manufacturers offering more bells and whistles for the same or less money, then people ask these questions. In fact most of the little comfort utilities are super cheap.

Now... in the end, it may be those very same bells and whistles that in fact lead to their unreliability!! But that's probably another topic for heated discussion.

 

[03_4x4Runner]

Ha. I wouldn't last five minutes at Toyota. Guess what: The 4Runner is not perfect. My mirror is still whistling. I used to hit everything but the right homelink button at night before they were lighted. I think the ADD could be improved. My old Entune had graphics only and etch a sketch would love. But: I knew all this before buying and had no unrealistic EXPECTATIONS, unlike you. I don't come here and post how great and perfect my old vehicles were, unlike you. I got exactly what I wanted with the 4Runner. If I wanted different I would have bought different. Simple. I will admit I looked at a new LC before buying the latest 4Runner and I might still get one in a few years. Could the 5th gen have more features? Sure. Could it have a V8? Yep. Could it be just as reliable and durable as it is now with these additional options and engine? Absolutely. That's why I looked at a LC, because it already has all this today.

I actually do agree with you on most things but being a practical joker I can not resist having some fun. I really like my new 4runner but it is hard giving up items that were standard equipment on my old one. When I get a new vehicle I like more stuff and do not like going backwards. A Land Cruiser is out of my price range. My wife and I are retired and this is the only vehicle I own other than my atv. It is still the best do everything vehicle for me. I knew going in what I was getting and what I was giving up and I can live with it.

 

[syndicate1]

My LE is is everything I wanted and then some.

It came with two hookers, a bag of blow and a one bar football helmet. What more could anyone need?

 

[Whiplash Willy]

What I wonder is how someone comes to the conclusion that because someone wants a feature that is missing from a vehicle that they are somehow "uninformed"

The answer to [MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION] 's question is exceedingly simple. He makes it complex by coming to an improper conclusion at the start then not letting the facts correct that conclusion.

Here it is: PEOPLE WANT TO OWN A TOYOTA!

Yes, people WANT an Toyota. REALLY BAD. They KNOW it is missing feature X, Y or Z, but they also know they don't want a Jeep!

So they buy the Toyota (Smart!) but there is that feeling that if Heep and others can add more features to cheaper cars, why can't their preferred and better overall option have them too?

Simple as that. These people are actually VERY informed, they KNOW what features other cars have.

And that list at the end is just inflammatory rhetoric

I belive part of the problem, atleast for me, is people don't like to see a vehicle loose features or "take a step backwards" from the previous model year.

If you compare a 2009 and 2010, yes there are improvements (Like the dual VVTI 1GR-FE, and stronger frame), however that isn't what people see. They see the steps backwards taken from 2010 and 2009, like:

-The lack of Multi-Mode 4WD and Center diff (When comparing SR5s)
-Non-projector headlights and halogen tails (Comparing 2009 and 2010-13)
-Thinner sheetmetal that ripples over bumps and when you shut the door
-Cheaper interior materials and poorer fitment
-Unrefined shift points that are programed for economy and not drivability

For me, I did alot of research, and several test drives of the 5th gen before I bought mine. I noticed/knew of most of the things that bother me about the 5th gen, but they weren't bad enough keep me from buying one. Although, I don't mind complaining about them from time to time. It does suck though to see/experience some of the features that the 4th gen had, that you really like, and wounder why they weren't carried over to the 5th gen.

On a side note, one thing that really bothers me is everybody complaining about how slow the 5th gen is, and think that a supercharger or V8 would make a big difference. The 5th gen feels slow because of it's poor (economy based) shift points, not because of it's lack of power. If a V8 would solve the problem, then the GX460 guys wouldn't complain about how slow their GXs feel. If toyota put a V8 in the 4runner, the 4.6L V8 in the GX460 would be what we would get. Why do you think a 4th Gen V6 feels faster then the higher powered 5th Gen V6? It is because when you press the accelerator on the 4th Gen 15%+ it will downshift, and stay in the lower gear longer. The 5th Gen requires 50-75%+ throttle before it will downshift, and once it downshifts, it will almost immediately put you back in 5th gear, unless you hold the throttle down at that high percentage.