Expectations

[8086bruce]

My 4th gen doesn't have third row seating, but from what I understand, the "2nd row" seats reclined if you had third row seats.

My 4th gen I just traded had 3rd row and the second row did recline.

 

[03_4x4Runner]

Another reason the 5th gen feels slower is that they gained around 400 lbs. over the 4th gen.

 

[KVA]

Another reason the 5th gen feels slower is that they gained around 400 lbs. over the 4th gen.

AND they don't have the V8 option...BUT the Lexus GX* does!!!!

* for $20K more

 

[1engineer]

I belive part of the problem, atleast for me, is people don't like to see a vehicle loose features or "take a step backwards" from the previous model year.

If you compare a 2009 and 2010, yes there are improvements (Like the dual VVTI 1GR-FE, and stronger frame), however that isn't what people see. They see the steps backwards taken from 2010 and 2009, like:

-The lack of Multi-Mode 4WD and Center diff (When comparing SR5s)
-Non-projector headlights and halogen tails (Comparing 2009 and 2010-13)
-Thinner sheetmetal that ripples over bumps and when you shut the door
-Cheaper interior materials and poorer fitment
-Unrefined shift points that are programed for economy and not drivability

For me, I did alot of research, and several test drives of the 5th gen before I bought mine. I noticed/knew of most of the things that bother me about the 5th gen, but they weren't bad enough keep me from buying one. Although, I don't mind complaining about them from time to time. It does suck though to see/experience some of the features that the 4th gen had, that you really like, and wounder why they weren't carried over to the 5th gen.

On a side note, one thing that really bothers me is everybody complaining about how slow the 5th gen is, and think that a supercharger or V8 would make a big difference. The 5th gen feels slow because of it's poor (economy based) shift points, not because of it's lack of power. If a V8 would solve the problem, then the GX460 guys wouldn't complain about how slow their GXs feel. If toyota put a V8 in the 4runner, the 4.6L V8 in the GX460 would be what we would get. Why do you think a 4th Gen V6 feels faster then the higher powered 5th Gen V6? It is because when you press the accelerator on the 4th Gen 15%+ it will downshift, and stay in the lower gear longer. The 5th Gen requires 50-75%+ throttle before it will downshift, and once it downshifts, it will almost immediately put you back in 5th gear, unless you hold the throttle down at that high percentage.

Exactly! You hit the nail on the proverbial head. I am aware of vehicle marketing and design somewhat so let me say a few things that hopefully some people will take to heart:

Every vehicle has to have a price point, that is a target price that is affordable within the buyer's demographic. You bought up a salient point man.
The 4th gen 4Runner had a lot of features in 2009 that the 5th gen did not in 2010. Why? Because there are ONLY SO MANY UPGRADABLE FEATURES for the target price point. So what did Toyota do? They were innovative. They took the projector headlights away. They took the Torsen full time 4WD and only offered it as an adder. The took a lot more away and they even took away the in glass antenna! Now, they planned on adding a bunch of stuff back as the 5th gen got older and now my 2015 has the nicer headlights, antenna in the glass and other things. What they did from 2009 to 2010 was they added a much stiffer frame, a new(er) engine, a more robust rear differential and several other things. It's all about marketing and they did pretty good. Everyone worries that they only sell 50K units a year in NA. What is their target? We don't know but I would guess, based on lack of advertising and incentives that 50K sales is just fine by them. Remember Toyota has some really efficient vehicles that they sell a lot of to make up the CAFE credits. Chrysler Fiat does not and Ford suffers as well. Anyway, I think that if Toyota offers a 6th gen 4Runner based on it's current underpinnings you guys better buy the last year 5th gen. Why? Because if history is your teacher you will lose a lot of features you like to be replaced by driveline, safety and efficiency improvements.

 

[03_4x4Runner]

But why did they have to take away the hamburger tray on the center counsel cover. Man I miss my hamburger tray. Please Toyota bring it back. I am betting most 5th gen owners that never had a 4th gen do not even know what I am talking about.

 

[Intruder]

my 2015 has the nicer headlights, antenna in the glass and other things.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, just a minute there. The 2015 has the antenna in the glass now? No more need for the stubby antenna??? That's it, I'm definitely replacing mine for a 2015. Anyone want to buy a pavement princess 2011 TE?

 

[03_4x4Runner]

AND they don't have the V8 option...BUT the Lexus GX* does!!!!

* for $20K more

The Lexus brand is basically a city slicker car. The reason I say that is that unless you live near a bigger city you will not find any dealers. If you live in the middle of nowhere like me you would have to drive 3 hours to find and dealer and anytime you need service it would be to much trouble for me. I am lucky to have a Toyota dealer. When I bought my 03 the closet dealer was 60 miles away. Luckily they moved the dealership to the town I live in now 6 years ago. This lone dealer is the only one for many miles. Luckily them treat me very well.

 

[KVA]

The Lexus brand is basically a city slicker car. The reason I say that is that unless you live near a bigger city you will not find any dealers. If you live in the middle of nowhere like me you would have to drive 3 hours to find and dealer and anytime you need service it would be to much trouble for me. I am lucky to have a Toyota dealer. When I bought my 03 the closet dealer was 60 miles away. Luckily they moved the dealership to the town I live in now 6 years ago. This lone dealer is the only one for many miles. Luckily them treat me very well.

Geez...time to move!

 

[badhabits]

Now... in the end, it may be those very same bells and whistles that in fact lead to their unreliability!! But that's probably another topic for heated discussion.

I will take the reliability over the bell and whistles any day.

 

[03_4x4Runner]

Geez...time to move!

No way, I lived near cities to many years and like it here just fine. I hate traffic and over population.

 

[Intruder]

If you live in the middle of nowhere like me you would have to drive 3 hours to find and dealer and anytime you need service it would be to much trouble for me.

Can't you have a Lexus serviced at a Toyota dealership and vice versa? I had my Acura serviced at a Honda dealership and my dad used to have his Infiniti serviced at a Nissan dealership all the time.

 

[Jayhawk5G]

Exactly! You hit the nail on the proverbial head. I am aware of vehicle marketing and design somewhat so let me say a few things that hopefully some people will take to heart:

Every vehicle has to have a price point, that is a target price that is affordable within the buyer's demographic. You bought up a salient point man.
The 4th gen 4Runner had a lot of features in 2009 that the 5th gen did not in 2010. Why? Because there are ONLY SO MANY UPGRADABLE FEATURES for the target price point. So what did Toyota do? They were innovative. They took the projector headlights away. They took the Torsen full time 4WD and only offered it as an adder. The took a lot more away and they even took away the in glass antenna! Now, they planned on adding a bunch of stuff back as the 5th gen got older and now my 2015 has the nicer headlights, antenna in the glass and other things. What they did from 2009 to 2010 was they added a much stiffer frame, a new(er) engine, a more robust rear differential and several other things. It's all about marketing and they did pretty good. Everyone worries that they only sell 50K units a year in NA. What is their target? We don't know but I would guess, based on lack of advertising and incentives that 50K sales is just fine by them. Remember Toyota has some really efficient vehicles that they sell a lot of to make up the CAFE credits. Chrysler Fiat does not and Ford suffers as well. Anyway, I think that if Toyota offers a 6th gen 4Runner based on it's current underpinnings you guys better buy the last year 5th gen. Why? Because if history is your teacher you will lose a lot of features you like to be replaced by driveline, safety and efficiency improvements.

I remember going rounds with you about this when I first joined this forum, I think antman and I got into it too.

I'm older and wiser now and as much as I don't like it, I understand the reasons behind losing features when transitioning from one generation to another. The first being recouping research and design costs, and the second knowing that on a longer vehicle cycle the mid model refresh is crucial to keeping sales up. So costs are kept in check on the front in, and on the back end you give people features back to get some upgrades or new buyers. It's crucial to keeping the price down, and keeping the vehicle around.

 

[1engineer]

The Lexus brand is basically a city slicker car. The reason I say that is that unless you live near a bigger city you will not find any dealers. If you live in the middle of nowhere like me you would have to drive 3 hours to find and dealer and anytime you need service it would be to much trouble for me. I am lucky to have a Toyota dealer. When I bought my 03 the closet dealer was 60 miles away. Luckily they moved the dealership to the town I live in now 6 years ago. This lone dealer is the only one for many miles. Luckily them treat me very well.

You just keep telling yourself that. Toyota will service the Lexus just fine. You keep harping for that V8 and luggage cover. For a few grand more you could have had something like this:

 

[03_4x4Runner]

Can't you have a Lexus serviced at a Toyota dealership and vice versa? I had my Acura serviced at a Honda dealership and my dad used to have his Infiniti serviced at a Nissan dealership all the time.

I asked them about this several years ago and they told me they would only do oil changes and no warranty work. They could have just been saying that so that I bought a Toyota from them. I always wondered what Lexus owners do if they have a problem in the middle of nowhere. Do they tow it to a Toyota dealer for repair or drive much further to a Lexus dealer. I am getting so bad in my old age that I do not even like driving into the city to even find a Lexus dealer. To many people in a hurry and on their cell phones for me. When I go on long trips I try to bypass cites as much as possible. I love the rural life.

 

[Stifler]

My LE is is everything I wanted and then some.

It came with two hookers, a bag of blow and a one bar football helmet. What more could anyone need?

this guy will fit in great here

 

[Stifler]

I have my lexus and my yota service at yota....never had an issue. Warranty work does have to be performed at Lexus though.... oddly enough I have never had warranty work performed on either aside from a headlight TSB on the 4runner

 

[4FL]

I like the 4r the way it is, to the point I am not even modifying it. I like the simplicity of it; it is like having an old school suv with some modern features for comfort/safety/performance, but still retaining that old school feeling.

There are a thousand options on the market for people who want a lot of fluff in their suv, I have no idea why they would even complain about the 4r not having this.

It is one thing to cloud talk about mods to make the 4r the "perfect" suv, but it is a whole other thing to actually have a complaint about some of the stuff it lacks (I said some, not all), especially the fluff stuff, maybe not complain, but act all surprised the 4r does not have the stuff.

Anyway, my 2.5 cents.

 

[Lenny33]

So was the point of this thread to complain about people complaining too much?

 

[Jhalko]

So was the point of this thread to complain about people complaining too much?

To cold to work in the garage or be outside with winter hitting so might as well have a good discussion that we can all link to in a month when someone posts a complaint about what the 4runner doesn't have? :cheers:

 

[jrandom]

I would love to see how long some of the people who get butt hurt over being told to search would last on pirate. All things considered this is a very tame and friendly forum compared to many others.

Geezus, no kidding aye, I agree very tame. :whipping2 :laugh:

Every vehicle has to have a price point, that is a target price that is affordable within the buyer's demographic. You bought up a salient point man.
The 4th gen 4Runner had a lot of features in 2009 that the 5th gen did not in 2010. Why? Because there are ONLY SO MANY UPGRADABLE FEATURES for the target price point. So what did Toyota do? They were innovative.

Totally! Take a Snickers candy bar for example, they keep it the same size they have to charge more because of the cost of peanuts has risen. So instead the take away 1/10 or the peanuts and keep it the same price.

I believe they are bringing some of those features back simply because when they retooled the assembly line, those cost have been paid off due to good sales figures, therefore giving them some extra fun money. This gives them some "left-over" capital to say, refresh the front end, add projectors, use a bit better interior trim materials. I garner the best 5th gen to buy will be the one or two model years before they retool for the 6th gen. Purely speculative of course, that is just how I see it.