Extended (towing) mirrors for 4R

[gpross]

Brake controller mounting and tow rating

The rating did change in the middle of 04. When I went to buy my runner the dealer had a lot full of 5000# 03s and early 04s. There was one 7300# unit and you are right, the difference is the hitch mount under the vehicle.

The 5000# units have a receiver mount that appears to be connected to the rear frame at the bumper. The 7300# units have a true weight distributing receiver with the cross tubes connected to the side frame rails.

This hitch became standard for the V8 models with the 04 model run, but some got out with the 5000# hitch instead.

FyI for those middle year change freaks. The RSCA switch arrived with the December 04 builds, models prior to that did not have it. My Late December 04 build was the first on the dealer lot with RSCA.

Regarding the mounting of your controller for the trailer brakes. I too did not want the holes left behind, especially as I only use the controller in the summer months. I mounted mine on the fuse box cover on the lower left dash, then ordered another cover from Toyota. When winter comes, I unplug the factory harness and remove the fuse box cover with the controller attached replacing it with the clean one. After the winter it takes all of 3 minutes to switch back and plug in.

Best

Gary

 

[RickyCRX]

Re: Brake controller mounting and tow rating

That's a good idea on the brake controller mounting. I think I will have to do that on my vehicle as well. It seems as though with the harness there, it should make it quite easy to plug and unplug as necessary. Thanks for the tip!

Ricky

Regarding the mounting of your controller for the trailer brakes. I too did not want the holes left behind, especially as I only use the controller in the summer months. I mounted mine on the fuse box cover on the lower left dash, then ordered another cover from Toyota. When winter comes, I unplug the factory harness and remove the fuse box cover with the controller attached replacing it with the clean one. After the winter it takes all of 3 minutes to switch back and plug in.

Best

Gary [/B]

 

[HardCharger]

Re: Re: Extended (towing) mirrors for 4R

About a month ago I purchased an enclosed car trailer which is 8.5 feet wide. Since the 4Runner is more narrow than my trailer I was faced with finding a mirror solution. I tried the strap on mirrors but they simply did not give me a good enough view of things.

Then I found the McKesh Mirrors. These mirrors fit my needs nicely. It is also nice to know that I can purchase each of the parts individually should something break (out of warranty).

I have attached a photo of my 4Runner for you to check them out.

The web site is: http://www.hensleymfg.com/mckeshmirrors.html

If anyone here has other questions I will try to answer them.
As you will see on the web site, these mirrors are not cheap but I feel Safety is something one should not pinch pennies on.

FYI, my 4Runner has performed flawlessly when towing the trailer with about 5,600 lbs of weight. Traveling through the hills of Central Pennsylvania I averaged 10 mpg. This weekend I am traveling out to Western Maryland. I am curious to see how the 4Runner performs climbing the hills out there on Route 70 & Route 68 and what the MPG is for this trip.

Hey Charlier180, I have a question about your towing setup since I basically want to do the same. I am in the process of restoring a 1969 Mustang and I am starting to do some research about enclosed car trailers.

When you mention that you are towing the trailer with about 5,600 lbs of weight, is that total combined weight including the trailer and it's contents? How much does the trailer weigh by itself (empty)? What is the tongue weight?

Sorry for all of the questions, just a little new to towing. I have an 2005 V6 Sport Edition and it came with the hitch mounted to the rear part of the frame (or bumper support maybe?). According to the owners manual it can pull up to 5,000 lbs. But if I switch to the hitch that comes on the V8's then the owners manual says that I can tow up to 6,700 lbs. I just want to make sure that I can pull an enclosed trailer with my 4Runner.

I actually rented a trailer from U-Haul (auto transport) and towed the shell of my Mustang, 4 adults and cargo with no problems. And those auto transports weigh 2,000 lbs, empty!

Thanks for your time, any info or guidance will be much appreciated!

 

[charlier180]

Re: Re: Re: Extended (towing) mirrors for 4R

Hey Charlier180, I have a question about your towing setup since I basically want to do the same. I am in the process of restoring a 1969 Mustang and I am starting to do some research about enclosed car trailers.

When you mention that you are towing the trailer with about 5,600 lbs of weight, is that total combined weight including the trailer and it's contents? How much does the trailer weigh by itself (empty)? What is the tongue weight?

Sorry for all of the questions, just a little new to towing. I have an 2005 V6 Sport Edition and it came with the hitch mounted to the rear part of the frame (or bumper support maybe?). According to the owners manual it can pull up to 5,000 lbs. But if I switch to the hitch that comes on the V8's then the owners manual says that I can tow up to 6,700 lbs. I just want to make sure that I can pull an enclosed trailer with my 4Runner.

I actually rented a trailer from U-Haul (auto transport) and towed the shell of my Mustang, 4 adults and cargo with no problems. And those auto transports weigh 2,000 lbs, empty!

Thanks for your time, any info or guidance will be much appreciated!

The 5,600 lbs is the combined weight of trailer and vehicle being towed inside it. Empty trailer is 3,175 lbs with tongue weight of about 320 lbs. When considering a trailer you need to account for the total weight of the trailer, it's contents and the contents of the tow vehicle (people, luggage, etc) You also should consider the terrain where you will be traveling.

If I were you I would be concerned with how the weight of the trailer and Mustang might impact the life of your 4Runner's engine and transmission. You should verify that your V6 4Runner has a transmission cooler. If not, that is something else you should add in addition to the V8 hitch. Don't forget about the weight distributing hitch and sway control. When you add it all up a trailer is not cheap to buy and one should not pinch pennies when it comes to safety.

Also, don't forget that you will need a place to store your trailer when not in use. Some communities have strick rules about trailer parking so parking it at your house might not be an option.

 

[TeryT]

Just for clarification, the tow rating was increased for the V8 made for the USA in April/May of 03. Mine was built in August of 03, and has the higher rating, Class 4 weight distribution hitch receiver, etc. I witness the change on my dealers lot and was all too elated! (this mid-year 03 model towing change has been discussed many times on here)

The McKesh mirrors are regarded very highly over on the RV.net forums. Virtually everyone who has tried them has said they are the best in stable strap-on mirrors, that won't harm the door. Many threads over there have shown where the extended mirror types don't do as good a job, and are prone to vibration.

With that said, I have not seen the ones mentioned above, and plan to check them out. If they don't work well, I will likely be soon buying the McKesh (BTW - McKesh is made by Hensley, the people who make the revered Hensley Arrow hitch - the most premium one on the market for eliminating ALL sway.)

 

[charlier180]

The McKesh mirrors are regarded very highly over on the RV.net forums. Virtually everyone who has tried them has said they are the best in stable strap-on mirrors, that won't harm the door. Many threads over there have shown where the extended mirror types don't do as good a job, and are prone to vibration.

With that said, I have not seen the ones mentioned above, and plan to check them out. If they don't work well, I will likely be soon buying the McKesh (BTW - McKesh is made by Hensley, the people who make the revered Hensley Arrow hitch - the most premium one on the market for eliminating ALL sway.)

This past weekend I had a 550+ mile towing trip with the McKesh Mirrors. They performed extremely well in windy and rainy conditions.

When mounting the McKesh mirrors for the first time, I had to spread the bottom door clamp to make it fit the wider 4Runner door bottom. I also used blue painter's tape both on the bottom of the clamp and on the plastic rocker flair to minimize the possibility of paint scratches.

I also found that the bolt that holds the mirror onto the mounting arm is kind of short at 3/4 of an inch. A quick trip to Home Depot for a 1 inch bolt added more threads and reduced the possibility of stripping the mirror mount.

 

[gpross]

Re: Re: Brake controller mounting and tow rating

That's a good idea on the brake controller mounting. I think I will have to do that on my vehicle as well. It seems as though with the harness there, it should make it quite easy to plug and unplug as necessary. Thanks for the tip!

Ricky

I reinstalled my controller yesterday for the summer. It took less than a minute. I have the pigtail threaded thru the finger cutout on the removable panel. The pigtail will fit past the fuses and connects easily to the in car female plug.

Fair Winds


Gary

 

[HardCharger]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Extended (towing) mirrors for 4R

The 5,600 lbs is the combined weight of trailer and vehicle being towed inside it. Empty trailer is 3,175 lbs with tongue weight of about 320 lbs. When considering a trailer you need to account for the total weight of the trailer, it's contents and the contents of the tow vehicle (people, luggage, etc) You also should consider the terrain where you will be traveling.

If I were you I would be concerned with how the weight of the trailer and Mustang might impact the life of your 4Runner's engine and transmission. You should verify that your V6 4Runner has a transmission cooler. If not, that is something else you should add in addition to the V8 hitch. Don't forget about the weight distributing hitch and sway control. When you add it all up a trailer is not cheap to buy and one should not pinch pennies when it comes to safety.

Also, don't forget that you will need a place to store your trailer when not in use. Some communities have strick rules about trailer parking so parking it at your house might not be an option.

Thanks for the reply, I really appreciate your input.

Although I have not verified it, I am pretty sure that my 4Runner does not have a transmission cooler. I did not think about the engine wear on my V6. Do you think the same could be said about the V8? What I mean is, do you think the wear on the V8 would be the same as on the V6? According to the owners manual, the V8 can only tow an additional 600 lbs over the V6.

Now, I am a little confused over the term "Weight Distributing Hitch". I have read on this forum that Toyota uses that term to talk about the hitches that are attached to the frame of the V8's and therefore the weight is being "distributed". But in reality, a WDH is a totally different rig. Are you refering to the hitches that are standard on the V8's? In the owners manual is says that a Weight Distributing Hitch is standard on the V8 and optional on the V6. It also goes on to say that if the V6 had the hitch from the V8, it can tow 6,700 lbs instead of 5,000 lbs with the standard V6 hitch.

I do not know what a sway control is nor what it looks like. I can imagine what it's for based on it's name. Do you know of any websites that have any good towing tutorials. Maybe even some books that I could buy. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

I do have a great place for storage. I have already checked and it should not be an issue.

Once again, thanks for your input and sorry that I took so long to reply, I have been traveling in and out of the country.

 

[gpross]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Extended (towing) mirrors for 4R

Thanks for the reply, I really appreciate your input.

Now, I am a little confused over the term "Weight Distributing Hitch". I have read on this forum that Toyota uses that term to talk about the hitches that are attached to the frame of the V8's and therefore the weight is being "distributed". But in reality, a WDH is a totally different rig. Are you refering to the hitches that are standard on the V8's? In the owners manual is says that a Weight Distributing Hitch is standard on the V8 and optional on the V6. It also goes on to say that if the V6 had the hitch from the V8, it can tow 6,700 lbs instead of 5,000 lbs with the standard V6 hitch.

I do not know what a sway control is nor what it looks like. I can imagine what it's for based on it's name. Do you know of any websites that have any good towing tutorials. Maybe even some books that I could buy. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
.

Weight distributing hitch is indeed a system consisting of a main frame mounted reciever (typically a class V reciever), heavy duty stinger and weight distributing spring bars that tie the trailer to the stinger and transfer some of the tongue weight from the rear of the tow vehicle to the front. The hitch found on the V6 and some early V8 trucks is a class 3 style hitch which is not mounted in a way that makes this a safe combination as the structural component that the receiver is mounted is not designed for the high torque placed on it by this combination.

A sway bar is a friction device that connects between the WDH style stinger and the front A frame of the trailer to reduce or eliminate sway. This is an optional component in a WDH system and not all have one. A sway bar can make backing while turning difficult and is designed to allow easy adjustment of the amount of control given for different trailers and situations. Hope this helps

gary

 

[mason4runner]

Hardcharger,
The hitch is the part that goes into the 2" receiver on the 4runner. The receiver will accept any type of 2" hitch. The rating of the receiver comes from it's construction & how it is attached to the vehicle.
The WDH I use for towing a 5,200# travel trailer is the Equalizer. It's does a great job & the sway control is built in to the leveling bars. My V-8 came standard with a aux. transmission cooler, I'm not sure about the V-6 The link below will explain how a wdh works.

http://www.equalizerhitch.com/productinfo

I also ordered the Tow-N-See mirrors. They come in flat or convex. $26.95 each
http://www.hitchcorner.com/truck-accessories.htm

 

[charlier180]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Extended (towing) mirrors for 4R

Hardcharger,

There are a number of brands and types of WD hitches and sway control systems. Personally I use the Reese Dual Cam Sway control. http://www.reese-hitches.com/sway_controls.htm
in combination with the Reese Trunnion Bar Weight-Distributing Hitch http://www.reese-hitches.com/hi_pef_trunnion_bar_wd.htm

This combination of WD Hitch and Sway Control works VERY well for my 4Runner and Trailer. When I brought my trailer home I had to contend with wind gusts up to 30 mph and single and tandem tractor trailers. With this setup, most tractor trailers that passed me hardly nudged me at all. Even crossing a faily long turnpike bridge with the gusty cross-winds was no problem. One nice thing about my setup as opposed to some other manufacturers is that I am able to make VERY sharp turns (when necessary) without having to touch the hitch/sway control hardware. Some setups using the older designs do not allow sharp turns unless you want to bend your spring bars.

As far as your engine question goes, I suspect your V6 will be stressed more than a V8 due to the horsepower and torque differences. How much stress would depend on the total weight of both trailer and 4runner and terrain you travel (ie mountains vs flat lands) A few weeks ago I towed my trailer (with car inside) through the mountains of Western Maryland (elevation about 2800 ft). The 4Runner did not get bogged down but it definitely had to work harder to pull up those grades and still maintain 45-50 mph. BTW, the gas mileage hit an all time low of 7.24 MPG (calculated). At least on the return trip down the mountains I got 10.2 MPG (calculated).

 

[HardCharger]

Hardcharger,
The hitch is the part that goes into the 2" receiver on the 4runner. The receiver will accept any type of 2" hitch. The rating of the receiver comes from it's construction & how it is attached to the vehicle.
The WDH I use for towing a 5,200# travel trailer is the Equalizer. It's does a great job & the sway control is built in to the leveling bars. My V-8 came standard with a aux. transmission cooler, I'm not sure about the V-6 The link below will explain how a wdh works.

http://www.equalizerhitch.com/productinfo

I also ordered the Tow-N-See mirrors. They come in flat or convex. $26.95 each
http://www.hitchcorner.com/truck-accessories.htm

gpross:

Gary, thanks for the information. I really appreciate it.


mason4runner:

Thanks for the clarification on the terminology. I really appreciate it.


I am going to upgrade the receiver on my 4Runner. Like I mentioned earlier, the owners manual says that if I use the "WDH" receiver from the V8, my 4Runner will be rated up to 6,700 lbs. I am not sure what the final weight of my Mustang will be (getting restored as we speak) and obviously the weight of the trailer will be a big part of the calculation, but I think that if I add a transmission cooler, swap out the receiver and use the Equal-i-zer Sway Control Hitch I should be ok.

What does everyone think? Too much for the 2005 V6? Or should I be ok?

Remember, I am not planning on towing my car all day every day. Only on the occasional trip. Thanks for everyone's help and opinions!!!

 

[HardCharger]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Extended (towing) mirrors for 4R

Hardcharger,

There are a number of brands and types of WD hitches and sway control systems. Personally I use the Reese Dual Cam Sway control. http://www.reese-hitches.com/sway_controls.htm
in combination with the Reese Trunnion Bar Weight-Distributing Hitch http://www.reese-hitches.com/hi_pef_trunnion_bar_wd.htm

This combination of WD Hitch and Sway Control works VERY well for my 4Runner and Trailer. When I brought my trailer home I had to contend with wind gusts up to 30 mph and single and tandem tractor trailers. With this setup, most tractor trailers that passed me hardly nudged me at all. Even crossing a faily long turnpike bridge with the gusty cross-winds was no problem. One nice thing about my setup as opposed to some other manufacturers is that I am able to make VERY sharp turns (when necessary) without having to touch the hitch/sway control hardware. Some setups using the older designs do not allow sharp turns unless you want to bend your spring bars.

As far as your engine question goes, I suspect your V6 will be stressed more than a V8 due to the horsepower and torque differences. How much stress would depend on the total weight of both trailer and 4runner and terrain you travel (ie mountains vs flat lands) A few weeks ago I towed my trailer (with car inside) through the mountains of Western Maryland (elevation about 2800 ft). The 4Runner did not get bogged down but it definitely had to work harder to pull up those grades and still maintain 45-50 mph. BTW, the gas mileage hit an all time low of 7.24 MPG (calculated). At least on the return trip down the mountains I got 10.2 MPG (calculated).

Charlie,

Thanks for the reply and the information. What do you think of the modifications I mentioned above?

The specs between the V6 & V8 aren't really that far off:

4.0-liter DOHC 24-valve EFI VVT-i V6
245 hp @ 5200 rpm/282 lb.-ft. @ 3800 rpm

4.7-liter DOHC 32-valve EFI VVT-i V8
270 hp @ 5400 rpm/330 lb.-ft. @ 3400 rpm

I am just trying to get an understanding of the following:

Will an additional 25 hp and 48 lb.-ft of torque really make that much of a difference if both vehicles are equally equipped for towing in every other aspect?

Maybe it is a huge difference because of something that I am missing? Don't know.

Any help from anyone would be appreciated.

Thanks again Charlie!

 

[mason4runner]

Seeing that you live in Fl. & don't really have any hills to climb, I would think the V-6 would be fine. I would still install an aux transmission cooler (if it's not on the V-6 already). The hardest part of towing is starting, climbing hills & stopping.
Speaking of stopping, make sure the trailer brakes work!

You'll love the equalizer hitch, it does a great job & very easy to hook-up.

 

[RickyCRX]

The V6 will work harder... The peak power and torque comes on at a higher RPM due to it being a smaller engine. Low end torque is what helps the V8 tow better. It's not just the 'peak' numbers that matter so much, it's what you have to do to remain in a comfortable power band to keep the trailer up to speed. The V6 will be fighting more to find that comfortable range to be in, which in turn will put a lot more wear and tear on your transmission from shifting around a lot. The V8 won't have to hunt around to find a place where it can develop enough power.

If you're only going to do it on occasion, you should be fine. The 'wear and tear' on the engine will be insignificant. I don't think you'll have troubles with a V6 even if you had to keep your foot to the floor all day long, it's just the transmission that I would be worried about. Get a bigger trans cooler and listen to what the vehicle is telling you when it comes to shifting around all the time as to what gear to be in and you should be fine.

Just try to keep as light of a trailer as possible; I don't see a need for a fully enclosed trailer. At that point, I would say it's probably too much weight, but if you have an open deck car hauler, you should be fine.

Ricky

 

[HardCharger]

The V6 will work harder... The peak power and torque comes on at a higher RPM due to it being a smaller engine. Low end torque is what helps the V8 tow better. It's not just the 'peak' numbers that matter so much, it's what you have to do to remain in a comfortable power band to keep the trailer up to speed. The V6 will be fighting more to find that comfortable range to be in, which in turn will put a lot more wear and tear on your transmission from shifting around a lot. The V8 won't have to hunt around to find a place where it can develop enough power.

If you're only going to do it on occasion, you should be fine. The 'wear and tear' on the engine will be insignificant. I don't think you'll have troubles with a V6 even if you had to keep your foot to the floor all day long, it's just the transmission that I would be worried about. Get a bigger trans cooler and listen to what the vehicle is telling you when it comes to shifting around all the time as to what gear to be in and you should be fine.

Just try to keep as light of a trailer as possible; I don't see a need for a fully enclosed trailer. At that point, I would say it's probably too much weight, but if you have an open deck car hauler, you should be fine.

Ricky

Ricky,

Ok, thanks for the info. I am starting to get a better understanding of everything.

I am interested in towing an enclosed trailer. Eventually the Mustang will be 100% restored and for long tows, I would really like to tow it around in an enclosed trailer. Do you think I could do it with the V6 assuming I add all of the aforementioned upgrades (upgraded receiver, WDH, trans cooler)?

How about upgrading to the V8 4Runner? Can it handle an enclosed trailer if I use all of the proper equipment? Not that I can upgrade right now but when the Mustang is done that is something that I might be able to do.

Thanks!

Aloy

 

[RickyCRX]

Honestly, that would probably be the best bet in your situation would be to upgrade to the V8 at some point...Especially if you plan to be on the highway at lot at higher speeds. An enclosed trailer adds a tremendous amount of drag due to the wind resistance. Most of them are taller and wider than the 4Runner itself is, so they catch a lot of air. I've been amazed at some of the things the folks with V8s have pulled. I am going to be upgrading to the newer style hitch receiver on my '03 due to the fact that I'll be trailering a race car a lot in the near future once I am done with it as well.

I'd say try it with the V6 and see how it does. You may be pleasantly surprised or sorely disappointed; you won't know until you try it with your specific terrain and load. I have a V6 S10 Blazer with a 4.3L V6 and although it's not a very fast or powerful vehicle as it is, when I put a 4,000lb trailer behind it, it really doesn't get much slower, but then again, that engine reaches its peak torque at 2500rpm, so it has good low end grunt to pull extremely well for how small of a vehicle it is. I'm 100% sure my V8 4Runner will run circles around that 4.3L V6 when towing, though.

Speaking of which, the Blazer is for sale if anybody wants a small cheap tow vehicle haha.

Ricky

Ricky,

Ok, thanks for the info. I am starting to get a better understanding of everything.

I am interested in towing an enclosed trailer. Eventually the Mustang will be 100% restored and for long tows, I would really like to tow it around in an enclosed trailer. Do you think I could do it with the V6 assuming I add all of the aforementioned upgrades (upgraded receiver, WDH, trans cooler)?

How about upgrading to the V8 4Runner? Can it handle an enclosed trailer if I use all of the proper equipment? Not that I can upgrade right now but when the Mustang is done that is something that I might be able to do.

Thanks!

Aloy

 

[charlier180]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Extended (towing) mirrors for 4R

Charlie,

Thanks for the reply and the information. What do you think of the modifications I mentioned above?

The specs between the V6 & V8 aren't really that far off:

4.0-liter DOHC 24-valve EFI VVT-i V6
245 hp @ 5200 rpm/282 lb.-ft. @ 3800 rpm

4.7-liter DOHC 32-valve EFI VVT-i V8
270 hp @ 5400 rpm/330 lb.-ft. @ 3400 rpm

I am just trying to get an understanding of the following:

Will an additional 25 hp and 48 lb.-ft of torque really make that much of a difference if both vehicles are equally equipped for towing in every other aspect?

Maybe it is a huge difference because of something that I am missing? Don't know.

Any help from anyone would be appreciated.

Thanks again Charlie!

You definitely need the hitch upgrade for Weight Distribution and some form of sway control. I agree with others in this thread about torque and power range being important when towing. A transmission cooler is a must since the V6 does not have one.

BTW, when your Mustang is done how much will it weigh? Remember that proper weight distribution is important when towing (ie where in the trailer the vehicle being towed is positioned).

The comment about wind resistance and enclosed trailers is right on. My trailer is 3 feet wider and 2-3 feet taller than my 4Runner. As a result the trailer, at times, acts like a Big sail and slows me down.

I also agree with others here that you should take a wait and see approach to upgrading to a V8 4Runner. See how your current V6 4Runner performs pulling the trailer before making the jump to a V8.

Also, one more tip... Follow the Owner's Manual recommendation as far as NOT towing in over-drive. That will put WAY too much stress on the transmission.

When it comes time for you to go shopping for a trailer let me know. There are several suggestions I have for you that I incorporated into my trailer's design that might be very helpful to you. We can save that discussion for another thread or do it off-line via email.

 

[TeryT]

Anyone wanting info e-mail me. I have a ton of info on towing with the V8 4Runner - some of which would also apply to the V6.