Factory oils
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Good Times
New member
As for synthetic, are they really all that?
my thoughts and belief was that they leave a thin film inside which is a def "no no"....
the way i figure, so long as u do routine oil changes in regular intervals (3000/3500 miles) then you should be okay using regular.
just some food for thought.
my thoughts and belief was that they leave a thin film inside which is a def "no no"....
the way i figure, so long as u do routine oil changes in regular intervals (3000/3500 miles) then you should be okay using regular.
just some food for thought.
peter78
Super Moderator
Oil?
When I bought the 4Runner I changed the oil after 2,000 miles and went on a big summer trip. I put Mobil One in the engine and I was very impressed. After 5 weeks and 5,800 miles I changed the oil and went with Castrol GTX, but I noticed a change, in smoothness. start ups and a very slight increase in mileage.
After some research, I went back to Mobil One 5W-30 and I change it every 5,000 miles. The oil at 5,000 miles looks better than the regualr oil in my Honda at 1,000 miles, so I feel 5,000 miles is conservative for synthetic.
I looked at Amsoil at found it very good, but expensive. Castrol makes a synthetic, but I found out it not like Mobil One or Amsoil and is hydro-cracked oil. Mobil One tried to sue and the Court said what Castrol did was legal. Since Mobil One is found at every auto store and big discount chain, that was the way to go.
I still use Castrol GTX every 3,000 miles on my other high mileage cars. Just my 2 cents worth.
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Read (2. Synthetic motor oil gets all new semantics.) for information on Castrol Syntec, on this link.
http://pub27.bravenet.com/faq/show.php?usernum=2240725418&password=&catid=1441&action=showcat
When I bought the 4Runner I changed the oil after 2,000 miles and went on a big summer trip. I put Mobil One in the engine and I was very impressed. After 5 weeks and 5,800 miles I changed the oil and went with Castrol GTX, but I noticed a change, in smoothness. start ups and a very slight increase in mileage.
After some research, I went back to Mobil One 5W-30 and I change it every 5,000 miles. The oil at 5,000 miles looks better than the regualr oil in my Honda at 1,000 miles, so I feel 5,000 miles is conservative for synthetic.
I looked at Amsoil at found it very good, but expensive. Castrol makes a synthetic, but I found out it not like Mobil One or Amsoil and is hydro-cracked oil. Mobil One tried to sue and the Court said what Castrol did was legal. Since Mobil One is found at every auto store and big discount chain, that was the way to go.
I still use Castrol GTX every 3,000 miles on my other high mileage cars. Just my 2 cents worth.
--------------------------------------------------
Read (2. Synthetic motor oil gets all new semantics.) for information on Castrol Syntec, on this link.
http://pub27.bravenet.com/faq/show.php?usernum=2240725418&password=&catid=1441&action=showcat
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Thanks, peter78:
What is hydro-cracked oil? And why did Mobil sue? I've been running BMW synthetic 5-30 in my bmw, and although it is made by Castrol, it is made to bmw's (higher) standards. I also get it for $3.42 a quart at the dealer (being a bmw club member), less than Castrol Syntec at AutoZone.
What is hydro-cracked oil? And why did Mobil sue? I've been running BMW synthetic 5-30 in my bmw, and although it is made by Castrol, it is made to bmw's (higher) standards. I also get it for $3.42 a quart at the dealer (being a bmw club member), less than Castrol Syntec at AutoZone.
peter78
Super Moderator
Castrol Synthetic???
Mobil One is a PAO base (poly-alpha-olefin). Castrol is a processed base oil stock. Here is a quote from the article, I already posted.
" Most guys know two things about synthetic oils. First, the price is three to four times that of conventional oils. Second, they're not real oil, not made from crude.
News flash: Scratch that second part. Now motor oils derived from crude may be labeled "synthetic." But they still cost over four bucks a quart.
Bait and switch? That's the obvious conclusion. Except in this case the advertising ethics people have given their approval.
Here's what happened, according to a detailed account published in the trade magazine Lubricants World. Late in 1997, Castrol changed the formula of its Syntec "full synthetic motor oil," eliminating the polyalphaolefin (PAO) base stock (that's the "synthetic" part, which makes up about 70 percent by volume of what's in the bottle) and replacing it with a "hydroisomerized" petroleum base stock.
Mobil Oil Corporation, maker of Mobil 1, "World's Leading Synthetic Motor Oil," said no fair and took its complaint to the National Advertising Division (NAD) of the Council of Better Business Bureaus. NAD often arbitrates between feuding advertisers on their conflicting claims."
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So, Castrol Syntec is "hydroisomerized" petroleum base stock. I am not a chemist, bottom line, their specs are down from a PAO based synthetic. Having said that, I use Castrol GTX, a regular oil, on my other cars and in my cars for years. Great stuff, for non-sythetic oil. For synthetic, I feel you can do better.
Mobil One is a PAO base (poly-alpha-olefin). Castrol is a processed base oil stock. Here is a quote from the article, I already posted.
" Most guys know two things about synthetic oils. First, the price is three to four times that of conventional oils. Second, they're not real oil, not made from crude.
News flash: Scratch that second part. Now motor oils derived from crude may be labeled "synthetic." But they still cost over four bucks a quart.
Bait and switch? That's the obvious conclusion. Except in this case the advertising ethics people have given their approval.
Here's what happened, according to a detailed account published in the trade magazine Lubricants World. Late in 1997, Castrol changed the formula of its Syntec "full synthetic motor oil," eliminating the polyalphaolefin (PAO) base stock (that's the "synthetic" part, which makes up about 70 percent by volume of what's in the bottle) and replacing it with a "hydroisomerized" petroleum base stock.
Mobil Oil Corporation, maker of Mobil 1, "World's Leading Synthetic Motor Oil," said no fair and took its complaint to the National Advertising Division (NAD) of the Council of Better Business Bureaus. NAD often arbitrates between feuding advertisers on their conflicting claims."
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So, Castrol Syntec is "hydroisomerized" petroleum base stock. I am not a chemist, bottom line, their specs are down from a PAO based synthetic. Having said that, I use Castrol GTX, a regular oil, on my other cars and in my cars for years. Great stuff, for non-sythetic oil. For synthetic, I feel you can do better.
Good Times
New member
i gotta agree w/ bmw on the redline stuff...
when i used to race my ricer, i had redline everything (practically)...
as for synthetic... never used that stuff for my cars... o well... figure routine maintenace at normal intervals will keep my 4runner strong for a long time
when i used to race my ricer, i had redline everything (practically)...
as for synthetic... never used that stuff for my cars... o well... figure routine maintenace at normal intervals will keep my 4runner strong for a long time
Thai
Elite Member
Hey all,
Just an additional point:
Most regular oil do NOT deteriorate after 7500 miles...in fact, most, if not all, are still in perfect condition. Why do you change oil?? Well, during those 7500 (or 5000 or 3000) miles, your engine builds up engine/metal/etc. debris. Therefore, changing the oil gets rid of these debris. This is the MAIN reason for oil changes.
Does synthetic oil solve the above problem?? No. Therefore, with synthetic oil, most mechanic STILL recommend changing your oil around 5000-7500 miles...maybe 10,000 miles at most.
That is one argument i have heard.
Just an additional point:
Most regular oil do NOT deteriorate after 7500 miles...in fact, most, if not all, are still in perfect condition. Why do you change oil?? Well, during those 7500 (or 5000 or 3000) miles, your engine builds up engine/metal/etc. debris. Therefore, changing the oil gets rid of these debris. This is the MAIN reason for oil changes.
Does synthetic oil solve the above problem?? No. Therefore, with synthetic oil, most mechanic STILL recommend changing your oil around 5000-7500 miles...maybe 10,000 miles at most.
That is one argument i have heard.
Thai
Elite Member
I know that BMW and Mercedes design their engine to run on Synthetic oil. Kinda like an engine designed to run on premium vs. regular fuel.
It just makes more sense to me to keep cleaner fluids rather than longer lasting fluids. Synthetic also has a higher temp rating than dino but, all those "special" characteristics don't keep it clean.
Most mechanic i speak to will say that you should consider synthetic when your car gets older...maybe near 80,000-100,000 miles.
In my opinion, synthetic or not, i will ALWAYS change my oil every 5000 miles. (i used to do it every 3500 miles...but 5000 is a good compromise between owner's manual and 3500 miles.) It is also easier to remember...less math to do!
It just makes more sense to me to keep cleaner fluids rather than longer lasting fluids. Synthetic also has a higher temp rating than dino but, all those "special" characteristics don't keep it clean.
Most mechanic i speak to will say that you should consider synthetic when your car gets older...maybe near 80,000-100,000 miles.
In my opinion, synthetic or not, i will ALWAYS change my oil every 5000 miles. (i used to do it every 3500 miles...but 5000 is a good compromise between owner's manual and 3500 miles.) It is also easier to remember...less math to do!
I've gone to 5000 mi change intervals also using "synthetic". I had an '85 Jetta with 140K on it when sold. I religously changed that Castrol GTX dino oil every 3K. That's 46 oil changes! That engine NEVER missed a beat and ran like the day it was new when sold--all original engine/drivetrain. Also, the car was 13 years old and the never charged or serviced air conditioner blew way colder than any new CFC-free unit.
I'm throughly baffled now on the oil thing. Although Mobil 1 is a true synthetic, does it leave plastic (olefin) films of deposits? Maybe the fake synthetic Castrol is good to use at 3.42/qt for 5K intervals??
I'm throughly baffled now on the oil thing. Although Mobil 1 is a true synthetic, does it leave plastic (olefin) films of deposits? Maybe the fake synthetic Castrol is good to use at 3.42/qt for 5K intervals??
peter78
Super Moderator
Confused
Yes it can get confusing with all the different options. As far as plastic film, I haven't heard of that one. PAO is found in most "true" synthectics, such as Amsoil or Mobil One.
I agree with Thai on one thing, use the oil you want, but change it often. I know the book "The Oil Bible" says changing early is a myth. Go 25,000 miles on a good synthectic, (read Amsoil). There was one person who wrote on the "Sludge" board on Edmunds. He had a Lexus RX300 and he went 25,000 with Amsoil and found out he had sludge. When he did a oil test, they found anti-freeze in the oil. Lexus and Toyota has given a special warranty on the 3 liter engine that has had sludge for up to eight years. BUT since the owner exceeded the 7,500 mile oil change, they will not cover it, Amsoil, who has a 25,000 mile guarantee, won't cover it. He is out of luck, stuck with a bad car at 25,000 miles. One oil specialist noticed oil can break down in the 3.0 liter engine as early as 4,000 miles.
Yes it can get confusing with all the different options. As far as plastic film, I haven't heard of that one. PAO is found in most "true" synthectics, such as Amsoil or Mobil One.
I agree with Thai on one thing, use the oil you want, but change it often. I know the book "The Oil Bible" says changing early is a myth. Go 25,000 miles on a good synthectic, (read Amsoil). There was one person who wrote on the "Sludge" board on Edmunds. He had a Lexus RX300 and he went 25,000 with Amsoil and found out he had sludge. When he did a oil test, they found anti-freeze in the oil. Lexus and Toyota has given a special warranty on the 3 liter engine that has had sludge for up to eight years. BUT since the owner exceeded the 7,500 mile oil change, they will not cover it, Amsoil, who has a 25,000 mile guarantee, won't cover it. He is out of luck, stuck with a bad car at 25,000 miles. One oil specialist noticed oil can break down in the 3.0 liter engine as early as 4,000 miles.
Thanks, guys. I did a Google search tonight and learned a lot. Bottom line from what I read...dirt from the air, burned fuel and engine wear is the culprit. An RV Motorhome site claimed you cannot extend the change interval with synthetic w/o installing an additional external filter that traps much smaller particles than OEM filters. But also went on to confirm what Thai said, dino oil did not break down either at 7500 miles. But one of the sites suggested that the random nature off the dino molecules will contribute to crud accumulation. I gather that true synthetic is superior to handle extremes such as temperature and towing. And it maintains viscosity better w/o lots of additives. For most normal applications, it sure sounds like $ 1.70 a quart dino changed often will be all most people need. I'm just peeved right now that I've been paying a premium for super refined dino oil that is labeled synthetic. How many millions are deceived by this?! I've found Mobil 1, Amsoil, RedLine and Royal Purple to be the true PAO synthetics (could be more). I agree, if I'm going synthetic, it'll be the convenience of off the shelf Mobil 1 for a reasonable price. Finally, one site said putting synthetic in an old engine can free dirt from around seals that was preventing the seal from leaking. Although the syn. didn't harm the seal, in a way it did cause the leak--and now there is no going back-seal must be replaced. Most manf. do not suggest using syn. in an engine that is already leaking oil.
Thai
Elite Member
So, i guess I will not use synthetic when my 4runner ages...i guess everyone has an opinion on this. 
Oh well, i guess i will continue to use good old Gastro GTX regular oil for the rest of my 4Runner's life.
My old Honda CRV went 97,000 miles on GTX regular without a hitch, even after towing above it's limits and plenty of off-roading (yes, i punished it beyond manufacturer's recommendations!).
As stated above, in my opinion, if your engine did not come from the factory with synthetic, it is perfectly fine to use regular oil...as long as you change it on a regular basis (3500-7500 miles). If you use synthetic, also change it regularly, at most 10,000 miles.
Thanks Swaro for your research!
Oh well, i guess i will continue to use good old Gastro GTX regular oil for the rest of my 4Runner's life.
My old Honda CRV went 97,000 miles on GTX regular without a hitch, even after towing above it's limits and plenty of off-roading (yes, i punished it beyond manufacturer's recommendations!).
As stated above, in my opinion, if your engine did not come from the factory with synthetic, it is perfectly fine to use regular oil...as long as you change it on a regular basis (3500-7500 miles). If you use synthetic, also change it regularly, at most 10,000 miles.
Thanks Swaro for your research!
peter78
Super Moderator
Homework
Swaro sounds like you have been doing your homework. I wouldn't give up on synthetics. They do have their benifits. Still going with regular dino oil is OK too.
I use dino oil in two cars and systhetic in one, so I think they both have their place. If you go to a place to change your oil, the biggest thing to look for besides the type of oil, is are they putting in the correct viscosity you asked for.
Swaro sounds like you have been doing your homework. I wouldn't give up on synthetics. They do have their benifits. Still going with regular dino oil is OK too.
I use dino oil in two cars and systhetic in one, so I think they both have their place. If you go to a place to change your oil, the biggest thing to look for besides the type of oil, is are they putting in the correct viscosity you asked for.
I've always done my own oil changes. I live in the boonies and I can finish the job at home in the time it would take to drive to and from a Jiffy-lube. Also, unless you are extremely gifted, it takes lots of experience getting a good feel with wrenches. I simply don't trust the 19 yr old, 2 week employee tightening things into my vehicle (aluminum especially). I also like to look at the drained oil to see if anything funky has come out. And it's a good opportunity to gaze around under the car to look for leaks, loose bits, whatever.
Realistically, I'm at T minus 5 or 6 months until I purchase a new V8 4Runner. I'm chomping at the bit--but will drive/ look at the new Tourareg first in June.
Realistically, I'm at T minus 5 or 6 months until I purchase a new V8 4Runner. I'm chomping at the bit--but will drive/ look at the new Tourareg first in June.