Failed Smog in CA... Help :(

L

Lankan

New member
Hey Guys,

Out here in California, and the vehicles are tested at 15 & 25mph for HC(PPM), CO(%), and NO(PPM). The vehicle passed all except for the Nitrous Oxide (NO) at 15mph. The max reading is allowed at 356, & the average reading is supposed to be 39, however my truck showed 709! It was a test only station, and the guy was helpful and said that it's running "lean", and the cause could be one of the following:

1) EGR valve not working properly
2) Ignition timing not set properly
3) Catalytic converter not working properly

I bought the truck recently and it had 287k miles on it, and the heads have been rebuilt recently. I have not changed anything on it yet. Just driven it about 500 miles. It runs fine (no misses or stalling), and gets anywhere from 15-18mpg. Timing can't be set properly at the moment as the bottom timing belt cover is not there (as that's what has the BTDC marks on it). I'm tearing it down to install a new bottom timing belt cover this evening. Once the timing is set properly (I was told it's 10* BTDC) should I retest again, or is there any way of figuring out if there's something wrong with the catalytic converter or the EGR valve (which I hope is not the case)? Thanks in advance!
 
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same issue - solved by a new cat

A muffler shop should run you $120 to weld one in. You can use a universal cat prior to 1995 instead of a vehicle specific unit. While you are at the muffler shop - A cat back replacement puts a pleasant rumble in the exhaust note. :bluejump:
 
That is a lot of miles and the cat could be bad, but I think it could also be the O2 sensor, which is much cheaper to replace. If it were me, I'd confirm the timing is right and then consider replacing the O2, a Denso is like $50. I have heard that if you hit the cat with a rubber mallet and it rattles, it should be replaced. Also, check for any stored codes, especially the code 71 for the EGR. If there are none, just to double check, I'd run through the FSM procedure for checking the EGR components. Its pretty quick.
 
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If it does need a catalytic converter, are you sure a universal one would fit, and be okay for the long run? A guy at one of the shops said it could cost me anywhere upwards of $500!! :moping:

Can someone enlighten me on how to check and diagnose codes? How do you access/look for a code, and how do you know what it means... do you need some kind of scanner?? Assuming the FSM will have the meaning of each code once you find it right?
 
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Thanks... that really helps! Can anyone verify if the codes for the 22re & the 3-liter engine are the same?
 
Lankan said:
If it does need a catalytic converter, are you sure a universal one would fit, and be okay for the long run? A guy at one of the shops said it could cost me anywhere upwards of $500!! :moping:

$500?!?! Thats insane. I bought a magnaflow hi flow cat for around $100 and had it welded in for $40.. And yes, a universal one will work. I had one on for a few months when my old one got stolen.
Click to expand...
 
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The OP lives in CA and I was under the impression most magnaflow cats can no longer be sold there since they are not the greatest cats and don't actually do much.

Cheap cats are cheap because they don't do all that much and have very little of the precious metals (not "precious means hard to get and expensive) that are the actual catalyst to convert the exhaust.

In CA you can get an aftermarket, but it will need to meet CA standards and will probably be more expensive than 100 bucks.
 
DC runner said:
The OP lives in CA and I was under the impression most magnaflow cats can no longer be sold there since they are not the greatest cats and don't actually do much.

Cheap cats are cheap because they don't do all that much and have very little of the precious metals (not "precious means hard to get and expensive) that are the actual catalyst to convert the exhaust.

In CA you can get an aftermarket, but it will need to meet CA standards and will probably be more expensive than 100 bucks.
Click to expand...

I live in Cali and passed smog with my magnaflow.
 
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As some of you say, the mechanic said that cheap cats can only work for a few months. I'm really dreading the second test. My plan is to get the timing done properly by the shop. They also said they got the tools to check if there is an issue with the EGR valve... I'm hoping all this doesn't cost a whole lot!
 
Guys, while installing new upper and lower timing covers, I also checked all the vacuum tubes that are near the EGR system. I realized that a one way valve that operates with a VSV and the PAIR Reed Valve was installed the wrong way. Could this have anything thing to do with the EGR not working properly and the "NO" levels reading high at lower RPM's (the reason why I failed the smog)?
 
Only way to know for is unplug battery so check engine light goes away and drive for 50-100 miles and see if it comes back on and check codes.
 
was the smog check place actually nice enough to only charge you half the cost when you failed, and charge you the remainder when you go back to retest?
 
I see... guess it's worth the chance to get the smog checked again, as that costs only $20, as opposed to the minimum $90/hr labor charge that a local shop wants to diagnose the problem.

The smog fee here in Cali for an OBD1 can vary. At the place I got it, the test is $51.95 + $8 for the certificate (the first time around). Re-testing is $20. So IF I pass the 2nd time around, it will be $51.95 (which I had to already pay the first time) + $20 + $8. If it doesn't pass and I have to go a third time... add another $20.

By the way, in case I need one, I checked a few places for pricing of a universal catalytic converter. Pep Boys has it for $180 with a one year warranty, and a local muffler shop has it for $220 installed with a 7-year warranty! So thank goodness, it's not as expensive as what I had heard from a mechanic when first checking out the problem.
 
Went for my 2nd smog test today... and failed :( Again for the same thing... "NO" levels are too high (the max allowed is 356. The first time it was @750, but had dropped to about 450 this time). They did say that it's definitely not the cat as CO2 levels are almost zero, so that the cat is doing it's job. They said they feel it's some issue in the EGR system. In addition to all this, my check engine light came on later in the evening. I stuck a paperclip in the under-hood diagnostic connector and got the following code. Can someone please confirm what it reads:

2 blinks within one second or so, then a 4-5 second pause, and then 5 quick blinks (same time between the blinks as the first two blinks).

From the diagnostic codes given by "ozzyleven" for the 22RE engine (post #5), and how it explains to read it, it seems like it's two codes.... #2, & #5, or is it code 25??
 
Been reading all this time, and finally found the FSM instructions for the 3VZ-E engine!! I believe it's code 52 that the computer is indicating... which is a knock sensor. IF this is the issue, will this somehow cause a reading that effects the Nitrogen Monoxide (NO) levels, and cause it to fail smog?
 
Thanks for that thread, but I feel more confused as this is what I've been told so far by the smog test station and mechanics who speculate what the problem is/isn't:

1) After 1st smog test: The technician said that there's a "lean condition", and it could be any of the following: EGR system (he said it's most likely this), incorrect timing (at the time this couldn't be checked as my lower timing cover was not there), or finally the cat. I had passed "HC" & "CO" with flying colors, but "NO" was 709 (max allowed is 356). I started by installing a lower timing cover, having the timing set to exactly 10*BTDC.

2) 2nd smog test: "NO" reading was 471, so failed again. This time the technician said that if I go to a repair center and they say the cat needs to be replaced, that means they're trying to rip me off, as the measured "O2" levels were zero, and the cat is doing it's job just fine.

3) Went to a friends garage, his Dad took a look, checked the EGR with a vacuum meter and checked EGR vacuum modulator and said that it's working fine. He then said that the timing was way off (even though I had someone else set it previously at 10*BTDC, and the truck was running excellent with good power). He said he's resetting the timing (re****ing it) so that it will pass smog, and that he will readjust it after the test. I use 87 octane gas, so he said to run it till the tank is empty, and then top it up with 91 octane and then go for the test. Do you guys think I should try this out, as I'm thinking that all he's doing is fooling the smog test, while there's something still wrong with the truck. The other thing is, the way he has set it now, it doesn't run well at all (like there's a constant miss at idle), and no power during acceleration.

Since I bought the truck about two weeks ago, the check engine light comes on after 50-100 miles even if I reset it by disconnecting the battery. Re-checked the code this morning, and now I'm sure it's code 25, which can be many things. The FSM says the symptom is Air–FuelRatio Lean Malfunction (same thing that was told to me by the technician after the 1st smog test), and the possible causes are:

• Engine ground bolt loose
• Open in E1 circuit
• Open in injector circuit
• Fuel line pressure (injector blockage,
etc.)
• Open or short in heated oxygen
sensor circuit
• Heated oxygen sensor
• Ignition system
• Engine coolant temp. sensor
• Volume air flow meter (Air intake)
• ECM

But from the thread that "OCMike" just posted (on yotatech.com), it seems like the 3-way cat actually does filter "NO", as it seemed to have solved that guys problem. What should I do, and where should I start?? I just want to get this smog out of the way and concentrate on more important stuff on the truck!
 
Here's a picture of the 2nd smog test in case it makes more sense to some of you to pin-point the problem:
 

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