Firestone destination at2

[Muzzle of Bees]

I have avoided the KO2 because of the complaints with them about their issues in the rain.
I just had a set of Cooper Discoverer RTX, E load, factory size, put on my 4Runner. It has been raining here a bunch so I had a chance to test them on many different road surfaces, lots of construction here. They performed great. They track perfectly and are perfectly balanced at all speeds.
I was also able to test them in the mud and they did great. They will eventually get into the sand and snow.
The factory tires kept getting punctures, Texas cactus got them, and that was a pain in the ass. They only had about 27k on them.

 

[ADT_192]

Every discount tire I call is pushing the KO2. My local tire guy says for looks he would do the KO2. For ride quality he recommended the new cooper at3 but I think they run small. Also said if I could find a set of 18” wheels I liked that the true 32” tire choices were greater. It seems that the tires I like the most looks wise are all E. I’m just trying to find a good compromise of looks and durability. Right now I’m leaning towards the KO2 in a 265 C. Waiting on them to have a rebate.

What about the Cooper ATPs? They are more expensive than the at3s but also have a tougher look, and if you want something closer to the ko2s why not look at the general grabber at2 or atx? They will look very similar to the ko2s but way cheaper, I think they only come in P and E ratings though

 

[blue2016]

I run BFG KO'2's 275/70/17 E rated. They have 40#'s of air in them. I live in SE Texas, we had 90 inches of rain last year. I have never had a wet traction issue with these tires. We have driven to Colorado and Utah in the rain and never had an issue. I don't think there's is many places that can say they had 90" of rain in a year. And thanks to Harvey we hit 100"'s the year before.

 

[PaulB-2006 T4R]

Is there a reason no one seems to run these. I need new tires, got 2 nonerepairable flats in my p rated Toyo At2. The firestone come in a c load 275 that only weighs 47lbs. They don’t look as aggressive on the side wall as others. Am I missing something else.

Firestone has a long history of making tires that have catastrophic failures, this is reason #1 to never buy a Firestone.

 

[mteolus]

My 2017 TRD OR had Bridgestone Duratrac's on it. Same company as Firestone. Only got 30k out of them and one tire had to be replaced at 23k because it was defective. I would never buy Bridgestone/Firestone tires again no matter what. Same goes for Goodyear. And same goes for Continental.

 

[fourwd1]

Very useful info! thank you for this

Yes it is, so I will move this to the Wheels & Tiers section where more people will benefit from the info.

 

[kenwilliams0803]

Ok, but generalizations like "great" and "garbage" are not terribly useful.

Since Michelin has no proper AT, it is a little hard to even add them to the conversation. The one they do have is too mild and known to clog far too easily with gravel, just like a street tire would.

It is not by chance that the KO2, the Wildpeak, and the Ridge Grapplers generate so many responses. They are among the latest designs, they all do the job very well, though each has a strength of its own, and they all get pretty good actual track record per the Discount Tire corporate guy I talk to on another forum. I know he answers questions and PMs on many forums, so maybe even on this one.

The P-metric and LT-C versions of the other tires just don't seem to be quite as good offroad or have other issues. The latest Geolander GO15 still gets some criticism for cornering on pavement, which was awful in the ATS while the latest Pirelli Scorpion and the Continental AT are not even marketed for more than dirt roads.

Speaking of which, the OP may want to consider the Continental Terrain Contact AT. They are not the softest AT for ride quality, but they track extremely well on dirt, do great in rain, and generally have the road behavior of a street tire. I would not trust them in the desert though.

We have these (terrain contact) on the wife’s QX56 and love them. I would not trust them for serious wheeling either but for snow or dirt roads or light shallow mud in a field they are quite good.

 

[MAST4R]

I had a set of 265 C-rated KO2's. IIRC, I'm pretty positive they have a 3 ply sidewall. Switched to a 285 Cooper AT3 XLT E-rated tire and coincidentally they only have 2 ply sidewall. TBH I haven't noticed a big difference in ride harshness, firmness, or bounciness. The Coopers ride a lot smoother on road too.

Yes, the LT-C KO2 are actually 2-ply! I am not shocked the info is not on the BFG website, but it is right here, bolding mine: "The tire's internal structure includes twin steel belts reinforced with spirally wrapped nylon on top of BFGoodrich's TriGard, 3-ply polyester cord sidewall ply construction (2 plies for Load Range C tires) for strength and durability." https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=BFGoodrich&tireModel=All-Terrain+T/A+KO2

I also stopped by the Jeep dealer near home and saw it with my own eyes on a new JLU Rubicon. I took a picture, too, but I am too lazy to upload it

 

[MAST4R]

Both of my non-repairable flats have been from gravel through the tread blocks on construction sites. 95% of my driving is on road, I just want to be confident in my tires when I need to use them for the other 5%. I went with the Toyos originally thinking they would be a good compromise. Tires seems to either perform completely different for different people or have subpar quality control. I don’t know how else to explain the variance is reviews.

What pressures are you running? That's odd. Does not speak well of the tires if this happens at psi in the 30s.

Tires to me are like shoes. There are objective traits, sure, but there is a great deal of subjectivity also. And different people use very different pressures, which change everything. For example, folks run D and E load tires at anywhere from upper 20s to mid-40s on road, so experiences are bound to differ vastly. Heck, some people even use the max pressure on the sidewall....

 

[Harrisnc]

What pressures are you running? That's odd. Does not speak well of the tires if this happens at psi in the 30s.

Tires to me are like shoes. There are objective traits, sure, but there is a great deal of subjectivity also. And different people use very different pressures, which change everything. For example, folks run D and E load tires at anywhere from upper 20s to mid-40s on road, so experiences are bound to differ vastly. Heck, some people even use the max pressure on the sidewall....

I’ve been running 35 to 38 psi since day one. I have about 18k on them now. I’ve always ran E load range tires at 50 psi on my Silverado that I drive to work . Similar off-road situations and never had a problem. I’m wondering if a tamer AT in a E at the 40 psi range might be tolerable on road and more puncture resistant off.

 

[MeefZah]

My 2017 TRD OR had Bridgestone Duratrac's on it. Same company as Firestone. Only got 30k out of them and one tire had to be replaced at 23k because it was defective. I would never buy Bridgestone/Firestone tires again no matter what. Same goes for Goodyear. And same goes for Continental.

Wow, you are gonna run out of available tire options with all those "nevers". Plus all the cross referencing needed to make sure one brand isn't actually owned by another...

 

[MeefZah]

Firestone has a long history of making tires that have catastrophic failures, this is reason #1 to never buy a Firestone.

You should read up on the Firestone Wilderness and the Ford Explorer, since that's the reference you are making. Ford was too lazy to spec out a better suspension from the base Ranger when they built the first Explorers, and to make a nicer ride on their shitty suspension they spec'd out tire pressures that were dangerously low. Low tire pressure causes increased heat, which can lead to failure.

There's a lot more to it, obviously, but to summarize it as Firestone's fault is a gross misrepresentation of the truth and spreads erroneous information.

A Google search will lead you to some interesting articles from that time.

 

[PaulB-2006 T4R]

You should read up on the Firestone Wilderness and the Ford Explorer, since that's the reference you are making. Ford was too lazy to spec out a better suspension from the base Ranger when they built the first Explorers, and to make a nicer ride on their shitty suspension they spec'd out tire pressures that were dangerously low. Low tire pressure causes increased heat, which can lead to failure.

There's a lot more to it, obviously, but to summarize it as Firestone's fault is a gross misrepresentation of the truth and spreads erroneous information.

A Google search will lead you to some interesting articles from that time.

Since you know so much keep going on your history of Firestone, there was a tire to do the same separation in the late 1970 early 1980s, so that is the long history I reference.

By all means go buy a Firestone, I do not care.

 

[MeefZah]

Since you know so much keep going on your history of Firestone, there was a tire to do the same separation in the late 1970 early 1980s, so that is the long history I reference.

By all means go buy a Firestone, I do not care.

If you are referring to the Firestone 500 recall from 1978, for tires made starting in 1971/1972, you are talking about a near-fifty year old issue.

That and the Wilderness recall from 2000 for tires dating back to 1991 are the only events in a "long history" that I am familiar with. I'm all ears if you got more info on others.

I'm not saying that any failures are acceptable, but you have to examine causes and then what steps a company has taken to rectify problems. Tire technology has advanced a lot in almost fifty years so it's not like you are still buying Firestone 500 technology when you buy a new Destination AT; and the issues with the 2000 recall were partially on Ford, as well as being the result of a bitter labor strike at the plant where those particular tires were being built resulting in workers building units with deliberately sub-par quality control. Since that time the plant has been closed and quality improvement control and standards have been increased significantly.

I'm not a Firestone fanboy other than I have been satisfied with their products. I run Destinations because they've done well for me, but I don't care what tires anyone else runs. The OP specifically asked about Destinations and I gave him an answer based on personal experience. Your response, unless you forgot to mention your personal knowledge, is a based on secondhand information at best 30 years old.

 

[mteolus]

I’ve been running 35 to 38 psi since day one. I have about 18k on them now. I’ve always ran E load range tires at 50 psi on my Silverado that I drive to work . Similar off-road situations and never had a problem. I’m wondering if a tamer AT in a E at the 40 psi range might be tolerable on road and more puncture resistant off.

The JLR's they had at a Jeep rental place in Ouray, CO all had C rated 2 ply KO2's. They were run every day on Jeep trails for an entire season and none had any problems. Tread was pretty well beaten up but the sidewalls were fine. That's what convinced me to get them over the E rated ones since they are 7 lbs a piece lighter.

 

[007Tacoma]

Firestone has a long history of making tires that have catastrophic failures, this is reason #1 to never buy a Firestone.

Maybe, but as of last year Goodyear was still making a tire that has catastrophic failures and is linked to many deaths. I believe they stopped making it at the end of last year, but I cannot confirm that at this time.

Goodyear G159

I've run Firestone, Goodyear, Nitto, Toyo, Bridgestone, Dunlop, and Falken tires on my 2007 Tacoma, 2008 Tacoma, 2003 4Runner, and 2015 4Runner. I have totalled over 500,000 miles between all of them in the past 12 years. Some were good tires. Some were definitely not good tires (I'm looking at you, Dunlop AT20). The largest amount of those miles were put on Firestone Destination ATs throughout the country - in the mountains, on the trails, in the snow/ice, on the highway, in town, on gravel roads, and in the mud.

The Firestone Destination AT tire was a light, well balanced, and all around excellent AT tire. Its only pitfalls were gravel/rock ejection and deep mud traction. It was fantastic in winter conditions, rain, and daily driving. The only reason I am not running them right now is that I wanted to give the Falken Wildpeak A/T3W a chance.

 

[MAST4R]

So the Destination AT may be a good choice for the OP. I cannot remember where it scored first. Maybe Consumer Reports for ATs? Their testing is funny in that only takes pavement into account, but that still means something.

Gravel retention is not an issue I remember having on ATs so that would be annoying.

The Destination AT is 5lb lighter then the Wildpeak and is listed at 13/32 starting depth vs 14/32. In reality the Falkens start at 13 and probably the Destination starts at 12, is that so [MENTION=73851]007Tacoma[/MENTION] ?.

In my use, I buy tires every 1-2 years, so 1/32 makes somewhere between 2000 and 4000 mile difference for me right when the tread is excellent.

In fairness, stock tires tend to be awful, I had a loaner Ascent and it came with Falken Ziex that were rated 300 BA. B traction! Same boat as the A20/Dueler.

 

[MeefZah]

Maybe, but as of last year Goodyear was still making a tire that has catastrophic failures and is linked to many deaths. I believe they stopped making it at the end of last year, but I cannot confirm that at this time.

Goodyear G159

I've run Firestone, Goodyear, Nitto, Toyo, Bridgestone, Dunlop, and Falken tires on my 2007 Tacoma, 2008 Tacoma, 2003 4Runner, and 2015 4Runner. I have totalled over 500,000 miles between all of them in the past 12 years. Some were good tires. Some were definitely not good tires (I'm looking at you, Dunlop AT20). The largest amount of those miles were put on Firestone Destination ATs throughout the country - in the mountains, on the trails, in the snow/ice, on the highway, in town, on gravel roads, and in the mud.

The Firestone Destination AT tire was a light, well balanced, and all around excellent AT tire. Its only pitfalls were gravel/rock ejection and deep mud traction. It was fantastic in winter conditions, rain, and daily driving. The only reason I am not running them right now is that I wanted to give the Falken Wildpeak A/T3W a chance.

"For context, Kurtz points to the failure rate of the defective Firestone tires that ensnared Ford in a nationwide scandal nearly two decades ago. Court filings suggest the G159's failure rate is anywhere from 10 to 27 times worse than the Firestone tires deemed defective by NHTSA. Goodyear employees themselves can’t identify any tire made by the company that comes close to the G159's failure rate, Kurtz wrote in the letter."

"Those types of claims were of interest in 2006 to NHTSA, which at the time was conducting an engineering analysis over front tire failures that occurred in motorhomes made by Country Coach with Toyo-manufactured tires."

Interesting reading... I guess dude can't use Firestone, Toyo, or Goodyear...or Falken or Dunlop or Kelly (owned by Goodyear)...or Bridgestone or Fuzion (owned by Firestone)...or Nitto (owned by Toyo)...

 

[007Tacoma]

So the Destination AT may be a good choice for the OP. I cannot remember where it scored first. Maybe Consumer Reports for ATs? Their testing is funny in that only takes pavement into account, but that still means something.

Gravel retention is not an issue I remember having on ATs so that would be annoying.

The Destination AT is 5lb lighter then the Wildpeak and is listed at 13/32 starting depth vs 14/32. In reality the Falkens start at 13 and probably the Destination starts at 12, is that so [MENTION=73851]007Tacoma[/MENTION] ?.

In my use, I buy tires every 1-2 years, so 1/32 makes somewhere between 2000 and 4000 mile difference for me right when the tread is excellent.

In fairness, stock tires tend to be awful, I had a loaner Ascent and it came with Falken Ziex that were rated 300 BA. B traction! Same boat as the A20/Dueler.

Hard to believe, but the Falkens definitely have their advertised tread depth!!! :faint2:

It was crazy to look at the difference versus the Firestones that were coming off. The reason the Falkens have crazy tread depth is that the rubber they use is Severe Weather Rated (3PMSF). This means that it is a softer rubber meant to be more pliable at lower temperatures. This greatly improves its snow/ice traction. The tread depth with the softer rubber is what allows them to be warrantied to 55,000 mile warranty on the P-Rated tire. I am currently at 35,000 miles after 18 months.

...all that being said, the Firestones did slightly better in ice conditions.

 

[007Tacoma]

Interesting reading... I guess dude can't use Firestone, Toyo, or Goodyear...

:shrug:
All I know is that no company is perfect. Toyota even does things that give me pause, but I still have 120,000 miles on my 4th Toyota "truck". YMMV