Firestone unable to get caster right telling me ran out of adjustment.

[theizzardking]

Sorry, I cant see photobucket pictures from work, I'll look at it when I get home tonight and see what it looks like.

cool thanks man a definate conformation will help me get on my way to the next thing or at least link the the chain, lol i don't want to spend days trying to figure out what i'm going to do or chasing the wrong things down, you know.
:surfer:

cheers!

 

[BigFishAllDay]

I just checked the spec sheet I got, and my alignment settings are:

Left Front:
Camber - 0.1 Degrees
Caster - 0.6 Degrees
Toe - 0.06 Degrees (toed out a hair)

Right Front:
Camber -0.0 Degrees
Caster - 0.5 Degrees
Toe - 0.03 Degrees (again, toed out just a hair)

Again, this is with a SS 1.2 lift. Comparted to the before lift height, it brought my front end up 4 inches, and that was measured ground to fender, and hub to fender, before I put the wheels/tires on. I found an alignment guy that's been at the same shop over 30 years, and I've been going to him ONLY for over 10 years. He's damn good at his job, and I'm not sure what I'm gonna do if he retires.

Either way, if you find a good alignment shop, they'll get you straightened out. With those settings my truck tracks perfectly straight down the road, no pulling on flat roads or crowned roads, and still has a good on center feel and returns to center quickly enough. That's with 285's.

 

[YotaZach85]

I just checked the spec sheet I got, and my alignment settings are:

Left Front:
Camber - 0.1 Degrees
Caster - 0.6 Degrees
Toe - 0.06 Degrees (toed out a hair)

Right Front:
Camber -0.0 Degrees
Caster - 0.5 Degrees
Toe - 0.03 Degrees (again, toed out just a hair)

Again, this is with a SS 1.2 lift. Comparted to the before lift height, it brought my front end up 4 inches, and that was measured ground to fender, and hub to fender, before I put the wheels/tires on. I found an alignment guy that's been at the same shop over 30 years, and I've been going to him ONLY for over 10 years. He's damn good at his job, and I'm not sure what I'm gonna do if he retires.

Either way, if you find a good alignment shop, they'll get you straightened out. With those settings my truck tracks perfectly straight down the road, no pulling on flat roads or crowned roads, and still has a good on center feel and returns to center quickly enough. That's with 285's.

Those are pretty damn good numbers! It takes some time to get em zeroed in and I'm sure Firestone just doesnt want to take the extra time, or they dont know how to tweak it to get it right.

 

[bulger22]

i thought this was a tie rod issue since the same firestone that couldn't do the alignment told me it was because i had bad tie rods and not enough adjustment

Classic firestone. They want more man. LOL

 

[steezemcqueen]

as said earlier, caster does not affect tire wear, just steering feel.

here are my alignment specs with my 4 inch lift. every vehicle is different though so what works for me may not work on yours.

what i recommend for alignment settings is to set the camber to 0 and the toe to 0.04. let caster fall wherever it is going to. it will usually be a little low but it is not hurting anything or causing extra tire wear. if you do want to correct this, these are what you need
LR Upper control arms for 95.5-04 Tacoma and 96-02 4Runner - Toytec Lifts: Toyota Lift Kits: FJ Cruiser Lift Kits, Tacoma Lift Kits, Tundra Lift Kits, 4 Runner Lift Kits, Sequoia Lift Kits, Toyota Truck Lift Kits

 

[BigFishAllDay]

Zach,

I was impressed too... a good alignment guy is worth his weight in gold... as is a skilled, trustworthy mechanic for that matter. I'm hoping the alignment shop doesn't offer a good retirement and maybe he'll stick around for 50 years! (J/k... if the dude retired next year, he deserves it)

 

[YotaZach85]

this is my print out after the alignment, from firestone, so should i go back in tomorrow and ask them to match the sides?




and you can see here the a-arm is maxed out in the bracket

Your numbers actually arent bad, there isnt enough variance in your caster to make your truck pull ackwardly. Have you rotated your tires recently?

As for your picture, the escentrics don't move the control arm side to side, it moves it in and out.

 

[theizzardking]

Well the tires are brand new that's why i'm freaking out i already have cupping on the outer most tread blocks or at least the corners are rounded on the blocks edges and i have 500 miles tops... should i start looking at other steering components then based on my numbers or should i spend the money for potential repairs for the a arms?


As i have about $600 to try and sort my bad handling out, i'm actually swapping out the ome fronts for some billies at the same ride height because the truck is pretty terrible, i have lifted every truck i've own and never had it feel this bad the jeep jiggle is kinda what's like but like a roller coaster over the crown in the road. Not as bad as the death wobble though.
Bottom line where do i throw my cash or do i keep chasing alignment, lol you guys feel my pain?

 

[YotaZach85]

Do you have both sway bars hooked up? Are they set up for stock hieght still? What did you do with your panhard bar when you lifted the rear?

 

[theizzardking]

They are still set for stock height, are they limiting my travel and causing my problems. I can make new ones in a day if that's the case. I just need longer ones right?


Also whatever the issue is im pretty certain it's the front end i can easily tell when going over rail road tracks on my daily drive

 

[theizzardking]

Sorry been on my phone most the day.

The end links are bone stock in short.

 

[steezemcqueen]

Do you have both sway bars hooked up? Are they set up for stock hieght still? What did you do with your panhard bar when you lifted the rear?

neither of those will affect the caster

 

[theizzardking]

neither of those will affect the caster

But is the caster my problem it's starting to sound like many here have the caster off. I respect your opinion heavily so do you think this why is feels like a roller coaster shopping cart, i was fully expecting to have to replace some things in there after putting a lift on a truck with 200k+ on it, my big concern is where to start

3 shops 3 different stories & no clue, i'm just wondering what the most likely culprit is. If my numbers aren't any worse then most here why is it steering like this?

 

[steezemcqueen]

But is the caster my problem it's starting to sound like many here have the caster off. I respect your opinion heavily so do you think this why is feels like a roller coaster shopping cart, i was fully expecting to have to replace some things in there after putting a lift on a truck with 200k+ on it, my big concern is where to start

3 shops 3 different stories & no clue, i'm just wondering what the most likely culprit is. If my numbers aren't any worse then most here why is it steering like this?

i would bring it back and have them redo the alignment. i'll bet the only thing they touched was the toe. see if you can get them to set the camber to zero and the toe to 0.04. i bet that will improve the caster and the ride. also, do you know how much lift you got in the front?

 

[topdown4runner]

I don't know about your area, but in Orlando, you can't drive down the road 15 minutes without seeing a Firestone.

I bypassed 2 of them to get to the one we use here at work.
It is an independent shop that carries the Firestone name. Not a corperate store. They have real mechanics there, and a guy who knows alignments.
He put my truck up and said "Holy **it" when was the last alignment???

12 days ago.... by a Firestone down the street.
He looked disgusted. He aligned my truck correctly ( didn't bring the sheet to work to scan in, sorry ) and it drives great now, and even the steering wheel is centered! I pretty much have the same truck / set up you have.

Look up the firestones in the phone book. Call them all and ask if they are a corperate store, or an independent shop. See if you can find one and have them transfer your alignment policy over from the other shop. That is what I did and I am a happy camper now.
I went from a 5 minute drive to a 45 minute drive ( bad traffic ) to change stores, and I won't look back.

 

[YotaZach85]

neither of those will affect the caster

I'm not saying they will. If you have your sway bars maxed out you'll have a harsh ride. If the panhard is still at stock length/drop you DEFINATELY get a screwy ride. Hell, it sounds like mine was riding better than the OP's without any sway bars, I still don't have the rear one. I would sugest you lengthen your sway bar end links and either get a panhard drop bracket or an extended panhard. I dont agree with the extended panhard because it is meant to be as close as level as possible but others have had no problems with just extending it. I personally took the time to make a drop bracket and I think mine rides better than my buddy's does with an extended bar. I would start with those items and see if it rides any better.

 

[YotaZach85]

Right now your sway bars are acting like torsion bars and that will cause alignment and ride issues. I added about 2.5" to my front links and the sway bar was happy again. For the panhard bar I made a mount out of some 3/16 flat stock from Sears and dropped the panhard down about 4 inches and my harsh ride was gone.

 

[theizzardking]

Right now your sway bars are acting like torsion bars and that will cause alignment and ride issues. I added about 2.5" to my front links and the sway bar was happy again. For the panhard bar I made a mount out of some 3/16 flat stock from Sears and dropped the panhard down about 4 inches and my harsh ride was gone.

is it just a bit of flat stock with some holes drilled in it or did you form it into a u-bracket of sorts? i have access to a number of cnc mills and lathes and all of the rest and can just walk down to the shop take a bit of stock be it flat stock,plate or bar , would it be better to mill out from a block what i need or just use a piece of flat stock? we don't really do forming usually send that out
so if it's formed i'd rather just mill it from some bar/block.....

here's my plan of attack, go get my tires rotated front to rear to deal with uneven wear thus far, make new end links for the front, install those, go back to firestone get the 0 camber and .004 toe nominal caster as suggested above, from here i hope to have taken the alignment out of the equation and will start concentrating on actual steering components
you guys think that's a logical plan of attack here? yes/no?
i'll report back with my results afterwards

topdown- no the firestones are few and inbetween here so my shop is my shop, and seems only to be corporate stores around here, if a seattle guy wants to correct me on this i would be grateful, that said if i can just figure out what needs to be done this one time i can show them and have it figured out for the rest of the time i own the truck, it's the old time vs money equation, at this point i'm trying to spend the time to figure out the settings i need and how to get them there so i can show the tech and be good for then on, you is that just stupid reasoning as in am i just wasting my time here? i'd like to get my alignment dialed in so i can move on to other things if that's not the problem.

:driving:

just wanted to say thanks to everyone for your thoughts on this, it's been kind of frustrating to say the least, you guys have been the bright spot when dealing with all of this crap! cheers!

 

[topdown4runner]

No problem.
That's what were here for. To "help a brother / sister out" when needed.
You've helped a lot of people here. It's nice to be able to try & return the favor.

 

[YotaZach85]

I boxed mine in complety. There is a lot of force put on the panhard bar so you have to make it pretty stout and you need to drill and add an extra bolt. If it's easier for you to extend your it will work but I don't think it's too hard to make the mount. I believe toytec sells a drop bracket but I thought it was expensive for something I made in about an hour. I think I have pictures of it at home if you want me to post a picture of it.