Firestone won't align my truck?
- Thread starter zopperman
- Start date
zopperman
Moderator
Someone else can interpret, but a funny thing about my Audi was that after alignment, my steering wheel was way off center. I just pulled it & re-centered it.
im thinking about doing that :redbrick:
Basically you got a toe and go. They clearly made not attempt to adjust camber and caster which is nonsense. Unless they were maxed out, which I seriously doubt they were then you got ripped off. I wouldn't even call it a good toe set if they couldn't even center your steering wheel. Take it back and raise hell.
zopperman
Moderator
I don't understand why they won't align caster/camber. Even with the lift they should be able to adjust it just fine. they claim that its the limitation of their machine.
BTW where do you take your truck?
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CrimsonCountry
New member
I'll upload my alignment they just did on mine in a moment. Like I said, I went out there with the tech and made sure they got close to the numbers I wanted. Also, b/c I didn't figure they were familiar with my UCA, I helped them with that too. Because caster and camber are somewhat tied together (adjusting one effects the other), they are trickier to get perfect, especially with a lift and no aftermarket UCAs.
Your Camber is way off and you will probably begin seeing outer tread wear ( think \ / ). Mine was at .7 after I lowered my coilovers and I could already see feathering/scalloping on my old tires within a few thousand miles. Your Caster sucks too but won't really affect the tires wearing early, just make for really twitchy driving at speed.
It sounds like you're just having the bad luck of dealing with some lazy workers who just don't want to go the extra mile to properly align a lifted truck. The shop I went to dealt with lifted trucks and drifters (who come in requesting crazy numbers apparently) weekly and they were more than willing to accommodate my request. The Toe looks fine. Like the above poster stated, they just did the easier Toe and then sent you on your way. I'd ask for my money back if I were you or another alignment....that's unacceptable. Of course you can't expect much, if any, better Caster w/ factory UCAs but get that Camber down ASAP.
EDIT: Here's my last alignment. It's not perfect as I was in a hurry but in happy with it for now.
(Ignore the "Before" numbers, that was after playing around with the first alignment)
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having fun
New member
Firestone did it.
They claim that they can't adjust caster/camber because of the lift, but adjusted my toe. It feels tighter, but the steering wheel still sits off center. Can someone interpret this for me?
I figured the caster/camber could be out of spec because it's lifted? That's sort of how they framed it.
HELP
You will have out of spec. with the lift and no aftermarket uca, which I didn't see in your built. Mine I went for awhile with the spacer lift, no alignment, but, road fine. Your pictures shows your out \ / pattern, more than mine was on 3" lift.
gaterose
Senior Member
Sorry man I threw my receipt away a few days ago when we were mad-dash cleaning for the future mother-in-law. I'll be getting another alignment soon though, will post then. Every time I've had it aligned they've gotten it with 0.1* of the OEM specs or whatever though like CrimsonCountry posted.
zopperman
Moderator
I'll upload my alignment they just did on mine in a moment. Like I said, I went out there with the tech and made sure they got close to the numbers I wanted. Also, b/c I didn't figure they were familiar with my UCA, I helped them with that too. Because caster and camber are somewhat tied together (adjusting one effects the other), they are trickier to get perfect, especially with a lift and no aftermarket UCAs.
Your Camber is way off and you will probably begin seeing outer tread wear ( think \ / ). Mine was at .7 after I lowered my coilovers and I could already see feathering/scalloping on my old tires within a few thousand miles. Your Caster sucks too but won't really affect the tires wearing early, just make for really twitchy driving at speed.
It sounds like you're just having the bad luck of dealing with some lazy workers who just don't want to go the extra mile to properly align a lifted truck. The shop I went to dealt with lifted trucks and drifters (who come in requesting crazy numbers apparently) weekly and they were more than willing to accommodate my request. The Toe looks fine. Like the above poster stated, they just did the easier Toe and then sent you on your way. I'd ask for my money back if I were you or another alignment....that's unacceptable. Of course you can't expect much, if any, better Caster w/ factory UCAs but get that Camber down ASAP.
EDIT: Here's my last alignment. It's not perfect as I was in a hurry but in happy with it for now.
(Ignore the "Before" numbers, that was after playing around with the first alignment)
Thanks, it sounds to me too like they're just being lazy. This is a nightmare to deal with. I bought the lfietime alignment so i'll try bringing it to a different location. The few that I called were morons. one guy tried to tell me that the caster/camber angles were fixed.... :happens:
having fun
New member
[MENTION=55855]zopperman[/MENTION]- I personally deal with a Les Schwab in my area. They install aftermarket lifts, ect. A lot of there personal have been at this shop for many years.
When I came into them with my lift and lr ucas, ( done a lot of tire and prior alignments with them) they set me up with a 2 hour apt, and worst case sinerio would be a double alignment fee. This was do to them knowing it might take awhile to tweek and adjust several times on all adjustment to get it right. Even to get the steering wheel straight also. My lr ucas made it easier as I was close when I brought it in. If you don't have aftermarket ucas, it will take a lot of adjusting to get it close if not in spec.
You might have to find a shop willing to put the extra into it and pay. After they get it there, you can use the Firestone life time as most of your settings will be close and no effort to get it there and they can push the next client in. So, do some research on shops and ask others around your area ( with lifted rigs)who and where does excellent work. I've read on others that don't have aftermarket ucas to correct this problem, it takes a lot to get to factory spec.
These companies make money on quantity, not quality.
When I came into them with my lift and lr ucas, ( done a lot of tire and prior alignments with them) they set me up with a 2 hour apt, and worst case sinerio would be a double alignment fee. This was do to them knowing it might take awhile to tweek and adjust several times on all adjustment to get it right. Even to get the steering wheel straight also. My lr ucas made it easier as I was close when I brought it in. If you don't have aftermarket ucas, it will take a lot of adjusting to get it close if not in spec.
You might have to find a shop willing to put the extra into it and pay. After they get it there, you can use the Firestone life time as most of your settings will be close and no effort to get it there and they can push the next client in. So, do some research on shops and ask others around your area ( with lifted rigs)who and where does excellent work. I've read on others that don't have aftermarket ucas to correct this problem, it takes a lot to get to factory spec.
These companies make money on quantity, not quality.
zopperman
Moderator
That may be the right move. I know forum sponsor high tech is in my area and will do it right. I just know that so many people have at leats gotten close to spec with the DS kit and that I shouldnt need to shell out 400 bucks for LR UCAs with only < 3" lift.
They should have at least made an attempt to adjust C/C as much as they could. They didn't even try. I don't know how they could say that they couldn't adjust them.
I go to the NTB in Chantilly. Ask for Dwight. You can stand out in the shop while he does the adjustment. He is a good ole boy from the country and likes trucks and NASCAR.
BlackWorksInc
New member
So, I will respond to your PM here because T4R.org doesn't let me throw attachments through PMs for some reason.
To answer your previous questions of how to perform alignments and what specifications to use (when trying to make your own vs. factory) is a little involved and I think you can actually find like an eHow or some similar page that will have diagrams and information.
But to bring it back specifically to your vehicle, I found some stuff in the FSM regarding front wheel alignment and specifications. It goes into some detail to explain which way to turn the tie rods, how to adjust camber and caster using the camber bolts, ect ect. In regards to how a UCA affects caster; the easiest way I can think of explaining is it that the aftermarket UCA's will physically shift the imaginary line that runs through the lower ball joint and strut assembly (what we see as a caster measurement) more than what can be done with the camber bolts on the bottom. The reason we use the aftermarket UCA's is because the stock suspension wasn't exactly designed to be upgraded with a 3" adjustable coilover and so most times you can barely get the alignment specs back to factory specs without aftermarket parts like an adjustable UCA to help give you more adjustability.
For example, I may need to play with the LR UCA setting on my truck, I have it set to the default/lowest caster bias (I think its like + 4* or something, I can't remember off hand) and my cambolts are almost ready to spin around. I do plan on going to 35" tires in the near future with some different rims and when I do the alignment then, I may need to adjust the LR UCA or get offset cambolts to get extra adjustability if for whatever reason my future tire/wheel combo throws them way out of spec (unlikely, but possible.)
That being said, I can understand Firestone's reluctance to align a lifted vehicle as they do not know if all the aftermarket components installed will allow them to bring the vehicle back to factory spec. But it should be both their responsibility and the responsibility of the customer to inform each other that the vehicle should have the adjustability necessary to bring it to factory spec.
Edit- Forgot the attachments! Doh!
View attachment SERVICE__40001_.pdf
View attachment A0__40001_.pdf
To answer your previous questions of how to perform alignments and what specifications to use (when trying to make your own vs. factory) is a little involved and I think you can actually find like an eHow or some similar page that will have diagrams and information.
But to bring it back specifically to your vehicle, I found some stuff in the FSM regarding front wheel alignment and specifications. It goes into some detail to explain which way to turn the tie rods, how to adjust camber and caster using the camber bolts, ect ect. In regards to how a UCA affects caster; the easiest way I can think of explaining is it that the aftermarket UCA's will physically shift the imaginary line that runs through the lower ball joint and strut assembly (what we see as a caster measurement) more than what can be done with the camber bolts on the bottom. The reason we use the aftermarket UCA's is because the stock suspension wasn't exactly designed to be upgraded with a 3" adjustable coilover and so most times you can barely get the alignment specs back to factory specs without aftermarket parts like an adjustable UCA to help give you more adjustability.
For example, I may need to play with the LR UCA setting on my truck, I have it set to the default/lowest caster bias (I think its like + 4* or something, I can't remember off hand) and my cambolts are almost ready to spin around. I do plan on going to 35" tires in the near future with some different rims and when I do the alignment then, I may need to adjust the LR UCA or get offset cambolts to get extra adjustability if for whatever reason my future tire/wheel combo throws them way out of spec (unlikely, but possible.)
That being said, I can understand Firestone's reluctance to align a lifted vehicle as they do not know if all the aftermarket components installed will allow them to bring the vehicle back to factory spec. But it should be both their responsibility and the responsibility of the customer to inform each other that the vehicle should have the adjustability necessary to bring it to factory spec.
Edit- Forgot the attachments! Doh!
View attachment SERVICE__40001_.pdf
View attachment A0__40001_.pdf
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zopperman
Moderator
Thanks, no worries about the PM, better people see it here anyway. I don't have the LR UCA and I shouldn't need it with the daystar lift, it's only 2.5" front and I haven't heard of anyone needing it for this. I'm gonna try and bring the truck back tomorrow and demand that they adjust the C/C to factory spec. I tried to explain it to them and their response was "when you lift the truck you change things" :redbrick: No sh!t sherlock. They claimed that they can "only adjust to factory spec" which I tried and tried to tell this guy could be done if they just messed with the cam bolts. Hopefully I can get out of work early tomorrow and bring it in.
BlackWorksInc
New member
Yeah, they shouldn't have too much issue bring it close to specs with a 2.5" spacer kit; a lot of the guys have been able to on the forum.
HerT4R
New member
bringing this back up, yes im a 5th gen owner, yes i have the same issue the OP does.
how did you gets get firestone to align your truck???
i like dealing with this firestone shop, and they already do my lifetime balance and rotate (even though they can clearly see i have wheel spacers, they are bright blue spidertrax ones).
changed out the rear springs and moved up the c-clip on my 6112s and now the tech came in and was like "we cant assure you it will be within spec".
I didnt have time to mess with them at that moment and left in a bit of a huff.
i want ammo to go back and explain to them that it can be done, I have aftermarket UCAs and 4wheelparts got it into spec (for an obscene pricetag) so firestone should be able to as well...
how did you gets get firestone to align your truck???
i like dealing with this firestone shop, and they already do my lifetime balance and rotate (even though they can clearly see i have wheel spacers, they are bright blue spidertrax ones).
changed out the rear springs and moved up the c-clip on my 6112s and now the tech came in and was like "we cant assure you it will be within spec".
I didnt have time to mess with them at that moment and left in a bit of a huff.
i want ammo to go back and explain to them that it can be done, I have aftermarket UCAs and 4wheelparts got it into spec (for an obscene pricetag) so firestone should be able to as well...
