I've been comparing Tundra and F150. you keep bring it back to the raptor. Which, as I've said, I dont think is an apt comparison.
I only posted the airborne picture to demonstrate frame strength. All this talk about Toyota's frames not being as solid as Ford's. Tundra got airborne and the frame didn't bend or require redesigning.
Anyway, I'm really not interested in having an argument. Enjoy your Ford!
To be fair when it comes to the Tundra vs. the Ford F150 there's still some room favoring the Ford.
The Tundra's frame is nice and strong, but Ford recently went to a much stouter fully boxed frame that can take much heavier load (even their "Super Duty" line switched from a C-Channel frame to a fully boxed one in 2017, up until then they were C-Channel with similar riveted support plates like the Tundra). Toyota fails to offer the 4.5L V8 Diesel in the US or even a big-boy Hino in-line 6. The Tundra's upper-end trim is nice, but falls a bit short of the offerings of it's competitors when it gets to that "Luxury Truck" end of the spectrum. Sure they have the obligatory Cowboy edition and the Platinum Spectacular or whatever they're calling the high-end trim these days. The lower end trims are probably comparable and their base model/utility variants probably compare well, though the domestics have a better fleet-vehicle model; you don't see Toyota really offering cabbed frames for coachbuilding like GM or Ford do (part of the reason they're not picked up for fleet work too often among some other factors).
Additionally while I'm not entirely sold on the Ecoboost stuff yet (let's see how well the 2nd gen engines hold-up, though so far they seem good), it's an interesting power plant with a torque curve that's extremely impressive (and I'm a big V8 fan saying that). The 1UR-FE & 3UR-FE engines are good, but they're getting a bit long in the tooth (not entirely a bad thing, just a fact, take it how you will, they're still good engines in my opinion); a lot of people buy into the hype of the Ecoboost and the cylinder deactivation fuel economy marketing which makes Toyota's engines look more thirsty than they are.
The main reason we're comparing the TRD Pro & the Raptor is because this thread specifically is about the Ranger Raptor and it's direct competitor the Tacoma TRD Pro. The Tundra fell in here with the F150 because of the similar issue the Tacoma is facing with Toyota not offering a good enthusiast vehicle. Both GM & Ford understand catering to your niche customers, Toyota just doesn't do that well. It took Toyota almost a decade to realize they could slap on a Bilstein Lift, black out some emblems, and throw some LT Tires and sell it as a package. That "TRD Pro" Package is basically one of the first things any member does when they get a new Tacoma/4Runner, granted the shocks the TRD Pros use are a bit beefier than 5100's but the concept is the same and Toyota charges a big premium for that "enthusiast package" that's marketed for off-road centric people. The Raptor on the other hand is actually built with heavy off-roading in mind and is built more like a mid-travel truck (the earlier frame bending issues were a combination of improper marketing where the trucks were being advertised as basically a baja trophy truck and people driving them like baja trophy trucks; Ford decided rather than just downplay the marketing they'd beef up the vehicle to put their money where their mouth is).
Even the Chevy ZR2 is a heavily modified variant of the Colorado tailored to it's target market of off-road enthusiast. While Toyota's offerings are not much more than bolt-on bits to jazz up the truck, yes the base vehicles are nice and stout already; but why not wider fenders (ala Raptor) to fit beefier and bigger tires? Better gears or a beefy front & rear locker (ZR2), hell the Raptor has optional Beadlock wheels. Not like the TRD faux bead locks, you buy the wheels as an option on the vehicle and then remount the wheels on the machined outer edges of the wheel and replace the 12-bolt plates with 24 bolt plates to convert them into beadlocks. This is attention to detail that Toyota has forgotten or decided doesn't matter since they've become such a large volume company.
I'd say that you're mostly right that when it comes down to the Tundra vs. the F150 the gap is much smaller than is being presented in this thread. But we're focusing on one end of the spectrum because Toyota is sorely lacking in this department while the other manufacturers are just embarrassing Toyota's attempt to cater to a niche crowd.
No sarcasm here whatsoever but would anyone put money on Ford reliability over toyota long term? Honest question but that rep is what keeps toyota in the game.
Yes and no, Ford's gotten a bit better (Carbon Monoxide poisoning Exploders aside), but those first gen Ecoboosts I have heard horror stories on. They run great until they don't and a decent number seem to have issues, but supposedly that's been rectified with the 2nd Gen units; time will tell. Though Toyota's "Famous Reliability" is waning these days, one need only look at the quality that goes into their vehicles these days to see they're slipping a bit (still better than most others, but being barely above the rest is not what Toyota should settle for). For example the Tacoma, the factory didn't tighten the rear differential carrier bolts so ALL 3rd gen Tacomas in the last 1~2yrs have the potentional for the rear differential to leak and ruin the rear differential (the manual allocation ordering for parts and the delay for them has left some customers out of their brand new trucks for months while Toyota forces the dealers to hold the vehicles until parts come in). Currently only the non-TRD models are covered under the recall, but we're seeing TRD Units with the same pattern of leakage, when/if they'll be included into the recall is unknown. The 2GR-FKS engine and it's mated 6spd transmission was not a very good choice (the Atkinson's Cycle they use just isn't a good power-band for a light truck meant for work not cruising the freeway like a Prius) and it's software programming sucks (mainly programmed for fuel efficiency not so much performance, though "ECT Power" mode brings it close to how it should be normally); unless you drive it like a Prius it just doesn't shift well and you can feel the anemic low-end, the software update doesn't improve it that much. We've had customers complain that under certain driving conditions the rear-ends "grumble/groan", well that has to do with the cut of the gear teeth, not a damn thing we can do about it; perfectly normal. Every single one I get into seems to rattle from the passenger front A-Pillar area, I have no idea what causes it; but I occasionally have to foam tape the crap out of that area because a customer gets annoyed by it, but every single one including brand new off the truck ones seem to rattle there to varying degrees. Toyota messed up on the Crank position sensor so it can stall out the vehicle sometimes, we have a recall for that. The leaf spring pads squeak like mother-****ers if they get even a bit of dust or debris on them, before we were cleaning the leaf springs and sending the customer on their way only to do it again in a couple months; now there's a new TSB to replace the pads with a softer rubber. It just doesn't end with these vehicles, I swear the 3rd Gen Tacoma has to be one of the highest rate of factory issues (i.e. stuff we have to fix under warranty/was ****ed up at the factory/badly designed) than any other Toyota at the moment and the damn thing is barely 2 years old.
I'm just busting your balls man. I am over on VWVORTEX too and this comes up all the time.
