Fox vs Bilstein TRD Pro

[Speeder757]

What do you think of the switch from Bilstein to Fox shocks on the 19 TRD Pro's?
What advantages if any do you think the Fox shocks on a 4Runner will bring?
Seems Fox uses an Aluminum body while Bilstein uses steel?
Does Fox offer a smoother road ride? Better off road performance? Better heat management? Hows longevity between the two etc? I just recently purchased an 18 TRD Pro so just curious what the changes to Fox will yield.
Thanks

 

[sn_85]

What do you think of the switch from Bilstein to Fox shocks on the 19 TRD Pro's?
What advantages if any do you think the Fox shocks on a 4Runner will bring?
Seems Fox uses an Aluminum body while Bilstein uses steel?
Does Fox offer a smoother road ride? Better off road performance? Better heat management? Hows longevity between the two etc? I just recently purchased an 18 TRD Pro so just curious what the changes to Fox will yield.
Thanks

Damn that sucks. If I were you I'd get ready to trade your outdated 2018 TRD Pro for the awesomer errthang 2019 TRD Pro.

 

[DannyLlama]

Fox has the absolute worse customer service. Thats what I KNOW

 

[Jetboy]

FOX and Bilstein both build great quality high end shocks. The shock model used in the TRD Pro is a high level consumer grade shock. Not really in the same category as the model of Fox used in the TRD Pro fox systems. The Fox shocks should be better at everything. Better fast. Better slow. And everything in between.

The reason is that they are multi stage internal bypass shocks, so they have dampening variability through out the range of travel. That opens up a much greater ability to tune for better performance. Better than almost any aftermarket shock for the 4runner. Better than my Fox 2.5's.

The downside of the fox system is that it is location specific. So you can't put taller springs on it without messing up the shock valving. Essentially you can only use a spacer lift on top of the coilover. They are built for that vehicle, with the OEM lift height only. And they *should* be fantastic for that. But they're not going to work well for anything else.

Bilstein also makes some top tier coilovers - but they aren't what's sold in the TRD PRo suspension. The Bilsteins are really comparable to a Fox "adventure" series shock. And the new Fox IBPs are something new. I'm not sure what they're comparable to without having a look at the internals. The next step up for the "adventure" fox shocks are called "performance" series. And the top tier Fox models - that are bolt in coilover kits - are called "Factory" series. They are very similar to "Performance" except they have hardened piston rods that are about 50% harder, use all viton seals, have complex CNC machined pistons, larger more durable reservoir hoses, and other small details that differentiate them. I don't think we really know what comparable product line the new fox shocks fit into. But it's safe to say they are probably equal to the Factory series or maybe better. They are a more complex and advanced shock than any other fox product currently available for the 4runner. The only comparable product I know of in terms of design is the OME BP51.

As an end user - does any of that matter? I think we'll have to drive them back to back to find out. I think the TRD Pro suspension kit now on sale for $500 is a killer deal. You couldn't buy even one Fox front coilover for that and you get all 4 shocks and front springs.

Hope that helps.

 

[Louise]

FOX and Bilstein both build great quality high end shocks. The shock model used in the TRD Pro is a high level consumer grade shock. Not really in the same category as the model of Fox used in the TRD Pro fox systems. The Fox shocks should be better at everything. Better fast. Better slow. And everything in between.

The reason is that they are multi stage internal bypass shocks, so they have dampening variability through out the range of travel. That opens up a much greater ability to tune for better performance. Better than almost any aftermarket shock for the 4runner. Better than my Fox 2.5's.

The downside of the fox system is that it is location specific. So you can't put taller springs on it without messing up the shock valving. Essentially you can only use a spacer lift on top of the coilover. They are built for that vehicle, with the OEM lift height only. And they *should* be fantastic for that. But they're not going to work well for anything else.

Bilstein also makes some top tier coilovers - but they aren't what's sold in the TRD PRo suspension. The Bilsteins are really comparable to a Fox "adventure" series shock. And the new Fox IBPs are something new. I'm not sure what they're comparable to without having a look at the internals. The next step up for the "adventure" fox shocks are called "performance" series. And the top tier Fox models - that are bolt in coilover kits - are called "Factory" series. They are very similar to "Performance" except they have hardened piston rods that are about 50% harder, use all viton seals, have complex CNC machined pistons, larger more durable reservoir hoses, and other small details that differentiate them. I don't think we really know what comparable product line the new fox shocks fit into. But it's safe to say they are probably equal to the Factory series or maybe better. They are a more complex and advanced shock than any other fox product currently available for the 4runner. The only comparable product I know of in terms of design is the OME BP51.

As an end user - does any of that matter? I think we'll have to drive them back to back to find out. I think the TRD Pro suspension kit now on sale for $500 is a killer deal. You couldn't buy even one Fox front coilover for that and you get all 4 shocks and front springs.

Hope that helps.

Jetboy, do the new Fox shocks have to be rebuilt every so often? Also, where are the old Pro suspension kits on sale for $500? Thanks in advance.

 

[Speeder757]

Damn that sucks. If I were you I'd get ready to trade your outdated 2018 TRD Pro for the awesomer errthang 2019 TRD Pro.

I very well might if i like the 19 enough

 

[honda250xtitan]

Bilstein also makes some top tier coilovers - but they aren't what's sold in the TRD PRo suspension. The Bilsteins are really comparable to a Fox "adventure" series shock. And the new Fox IBPs are something new. I'm not sure what they're comparable to without having a look at the internals. The next step up for the "adventure" fox shocks are called "performance" series. And the top tier Fox models - that are bolt in coilover kits - are called "Factory" series. They are very similar to "Performance" except they have hardened piston rods that are about 50% harder, use all viton seals, have complex CNC machined pistons, larger more durable reservoir hoses, and other small details that differentiate them. I don't think we really know what comparable product line the new fox shocks fit into. But it's safe to say they are probably equal to the Factory series or maybe better. They are a more complex and advanced shock than any other fox product currently available for the 4runner. The only comparable product I know of in terms of design is the OME BP51.

.

King has an IBP coilover you can order as well. And Bilstein 8112's are also a internal bypass with 3 pistons i believe.

These are pretty neat shocks though. Almost as cool as the ones the zr2 colorados have.

 

[WallyT4R]

FOX and Bilstein both build great quality high end shocks. The shock model used in the TRD Pro is a high level consumer grade shock. Not really in the same category as the model of Fox used in the TRD Pro fox systems. The Fox shocks should be better at everything. Better fast. Better slow. And everything in between.

The reason is that they are multi stage internal bypass shocks, so they have dampening variability through out the range of travel. That opens up a much greater ability to tune for better performance. Better than almost any aftermarket shock for the 4runner. Better than my Fox 2.5's.

The downside of the fox system is that it is location specific. So you can't put taller springs on it without messing up the shock valving. Essentially you can only use a spacer lift on top of the coilover. They are built for that vehicle, with the OEM lift height only. And they *should* be fantastic for that. But they're not going to work well for anything else.

Bilstein also makes some top tier coilovers - but they aren't what's sold in the TRD PRo suspension. The Bilsteins are really comparable to a Fox "adventure" series shock. And the new Fox IBPs are something new. I'm not sure what they're comparable to without having a look at the internals. The next step up for the "adventure" fox shocks are called "performance" series. And the top tier Fox models - that are bolt in coilover kits - are called "Factory" series. They are very similar to "Performance" except they have hardened piston rods that are about 50% harder, use all viton seals, have complex CNC machined pistons, larger more durable reservoir hoses, and other small details that differentiate them. I don't think we really know what comparable product line the new fox shocks fit into. But it's safe to say they are probably equal to the Factory series or maybe better. They are a more complex and advanced shock than any other fox product currently available for the 4runner. The only comparable product I know of in terms of design is the OME BP51.

As an end user - does any of that matter? I think we'll have to drive them back to back to find out. I think the TRD Pro suspension kit now on sale for $500 is a killer deal. You couldn't buy even one Fox front coilover for that and you get all 4 shocks and front springs.

Hope that helps.

Yes I am also interested in the $500 killer deal.

 

[Darrow]

Yes I am also interested in the $500 killer deal.

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-g...rd-pro-suspension-kit-sale-ptr13-35140-a.html

 

[probos]

I have no idea what's better, but, generally when a big company like Toyota makes a switch like this it has something to do with cost. But Fox stuff is generally more expensive? Who knows. There's this:

https://www.shocksurplus.com/pages/bilstein-5100-vs-fox-2-0-performance-shocks

 

[Steel28]

So smoother highway ride with Bilsteins eh? )

 

[DavidR1]

The reason is that they are multi stage internal bypass shocks, so they have dampening variability through out the range of travel. That opens up a much greater ability to tune for better performance. Better than almost any aftermarket shock for the 4runner. Better than my Fox 2.5's.

.

Do we know yet how exactly these will differ from the 2.5's? I was considering the 2.5's vs this setup (when available) as I think the 2.5's should be very similar and cheaper.

 

[Jetboy]

Jetboy, do the new Fox shocks have to be rebuilt every so often? Also, where are the old Pro suspension kits on sale for $500? Thanks in advance.

I don't know. My guess is that they are rebuildable. But I'm not sure. The only Fox product I'm aware of that doesn't have a rebuildable design are the adventure series. So my guess is that they do need periodic rebuilds. But it's not a big deal to me. They should last longer than any other OEM shock before the rebuild. If you use the vehicle in such a way that your fox shocks need a rebuild in 50k miles - you'll need new bilsteins in 50k miles too. But the rebuild probably will cost less than any comparable disposable shock.

IMO the fox shocks are a LOT better than something like GM's ZR2 spool valve design. Not only are they rebuildable - but they're also sized appropriately. The ZR2 shocks are simply too small physically for much serious use. They didn't even last for one race they tried to run a few years ago - and subsequently quit trying to race in desert stock class. The idea is interesting - probably has merit. But they're not sized appropriately for the task.

 

[Jetboy]

Do we know yet how exactly these will differ from the 2.5's? I was considering the 2.5's vs this setup (when available) as I think the 2.5's should be very similar and cheaper.

They're a lot different. They only have a 2" or smaller? internal piston. But not all the fluid flows through the piston during the stroke. So how does that compare? I'm not sure. It's hard to compare the two just on size. My guess is that they share almost no parts. But the bypass design should provide better performance across the board. It's not new technology by any means. Every bicycle suspension is multi stage bypass design other than the cheapest walmart bikes. It's standard design in most motorsports applications. If I could upgrade my fox 2.5's to internal bypass coilovers - yeah absolutely. I wouldn't think twice about it.

The one thing I think I know is that they're not a traditional internal bypass using a needle mechanism to close the bypass. In the most common traditional internal bypass design you have a needle that closes a fluid circuit as you compress a certain amount. They look like this (This is a King shock)

<iframe width="1280" height="720" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/nPa1KrbiEZM" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

In comparison the Fox design routes the bypass around the internal piston area through passageways in the walls of the cylinder.

Here's how the fox design works
<iframe width="1280" height="720" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/HBjZu3TfjF8" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Is one better than the other? Not inherently. I think the Fox design offers some benefits and some drawbacks. It offers more zones of dampening, but also means smaller piston. I think both could work really well if well tuned. No single piston fox like the current 2.5 factory series can be tuned to perform like a bypass shock. They just lack the physical ability to do what a bypass shock can.

 

[Jetboy]

I have no idea what's better, but, generally when a big company like Toyota makes a switch like this it has something to do with cost. But Fox stuff is generally more expensive? Who knows. There's this:

https://www.shocksurplus.com/pages/bilstein-5100-vs-fox-2-0-performance-shocks

I don't think this is really a good comparison. The 6112 and Fox 2.0 are probably direct competitors. But the new fox IBP shocks are about three grades up in the performance tree compared to the fox 2.0. For comparison a pair of 6112 coilovers runs something like $400 IIRC. A pair of Fox IBP front coilovers (there's no application for toyotas currently) runs about $2700. A comparable bilstein is the 9300 series and they start at about $2900. And that's only for 2 of them. From fox - the retail price of the shocks/springs for the new kit would probably be about $4,000 as compared to $600 for the bilsteins. I anticipate a $2000 or more price bump for the new TRDP - which incidentally is probably a good deal if you don't plan on lifting it. And therein lies the rub. They should be great - but you're limited to basically stock height. It's a significant upgrade. It may actually be worthy of the TRDP price increase. And finally means that TRDP isn't a higher cost model with a suspension downgrade from a KDSS TRDOR. They should - if tuned correctly - ride better in every scenario. Street. Dirt. And everything in between. How much better - that's going to depend on how well TRD did in tuning them and spec'ing the parts.

 

[DavidR1]

Thanks for the additional information [MENTION=118321]Jetboy[/MENTION].

Wonder how much Toyota will charge for this kit? Also I wonder if Fox will release their version of this kit since they will have it designed anyway. Maybe Fox will meet the demand and offer it with a lift over the TRD version.

 

[Jetboy]

As far as I know - the Tacoma version was not for sale through Toyota dealers. I don't know if that's still the case. But basically it's unobtainable. However - I also think about 95% of aftermarket buyers wouldn't want it anyway. I wouldn't want the OEM version myself because it's probably not compatible with anything but a spacer lift. I still want full suspension travel. In the rear I think it'll be 3-4" less travel than aftermarket long travel shocks.

An aftermarket version would be great. But it'll probably be expensive. Fox sells the same basic shock they use in the Raptor for about $2700 for a pair of coilovers, and the rear set are about $1500. So $4500ish would be where I'd expect the price to be. Or at least that's what it would cost you do get pretty close. I think the prices will come down quite a bit as more options are available. The Old Man Emu BP51s are a lot cheaper and very similar in design. Plus they are height adjustable and have independent compression and rebound external adjustments. They don't have as many levels of dampening, but the cost of entry is more reasonable.

 

[hillzz]

Is the 2019 worth the extra cash for a non-serious offroader?

If money and time were no object, I would love a 2019. I know the Fox shocks are amazing. However, I do have a bit of a budget and dont want to wait forever for 2019's to hit the lot. If I got a great deal on a new 2018, would it be a bad move to buy it? Are the bilstien shocks really that bad, or the Fox shocks just that much better? I also will rarely take it off road. I would think under road with just some light off roading the bilstiens would do the trick.

 

[SlickTRD]

If money and time were no object, I would love a 2019. I know the Fox shocks are amazing. However, I do have a bit of a budget and dont want to wait forever for 2019's to hit the lot. If I got a great deal on a new 2018, would it be a bad move to buy it? Are the bilstien shocks really that bad, or the Fox shocks just that much better? I also will rarely take it off road. I would think under road with just some light off roading the bilstiens would do the trick.

What is a great deal on 18? MSRP or less (without all the add-on bs) is usually considered a great deal. If you are mostly mall crawling, the bilsteins will be fine.

 

[hillzz]

Yes - I would think a fairly bare bones 2018 TRD Pro model at 1000 less than MSRP would be something I wouldn't lose a lot of money on down the road and may not notice a huge difference between in and the 2019.