Front caliper issues

[rwh963]

i've read on this forum that the 4th gen 4runner can have caliper issues. my 2007 has the original rears at 203k miles, but the fronts were replaced at 160k. the independent shop installed a pair from A1 Cardone. they come with a three year warranty.

the right one started failing at 25k miles. the left one started failing at 38k miles. both were replaced with additional labor charge (something i learned to pay attention to is even though the part has a warranty, the labor may repeat again and again).

now, at about 20k miles the warrantied right caliper is showing signs of failure. it is going in for inspection and i presume replacement. i already told the shop that i don't want to pay again for labor.

i seem to be in a bad replacement loop with these front calipers. i don't know if these reman calipers (in Mexico) are the problem. i've read of people having issues with toyota calipers.

are there special issues affecting the front caliper locations?

 

[smokey73]

How are they failing? Are they all doing the same thing, either locking up or leaking? You might consider a second opinion unless it's an obvious issue. I live down south and I'm running all four original calipers at 280k miles. I'm sure the region they're in plays some sort of role in service life.

 

[rwh963]

i'm assuming the pistons are failing. each time they stop fully releasing, resulting in grabbing, pad dust and heat. owned since new, in the same location, so strange that the factory calipers went to 160k, and now issues. brake fluid changed each time.

 

[paraordnance]

i'm assuming the pistons are failing. each time they stop fully releasing, resulting in grabbing, pad dust and heat. owned since new, in the same location, so strange that the factory calipers went to 160k, and now issues. brake fluid changed each time.

Search for "frozen calipers" and "5th gen calipers" to get yourself started. In short, if you do not upgrade your calipers to 5th gen ones you will have this problem indefinatelly

 

[rwh963]

why did the factory calipers go 160k miles, and replacements 20k-40k?

 

[AuSeeker]

why did the factory calipers go 160k miles, and replacements 20k-40k?

I would say because they were OEM and brand new, instead if rebuilt or aftermarket calipers!

Very seldom will you find rebuilt or aftermarket anything that will last as long as the original OEM parts.IMHO

 

[rwh963]

initially i was thinking that as well. however, in searching for insight, i read often of others running into this issue with toyota replacements as well. i called toyota parts, and they said that the dealer replacement calipers for the 4runner are not reman, but all new and made in california.

 

[AuSeeker]

initially i was thinking that as well. however, in searching for insight, i read often of others running into this issue with toyota replacements as well. i called toyota parts, and they said that the dealer replacement calipers for the 4runner are not reman, but all new and made in california.

BUT are they really OEM, as in are they the same as what came on the truck from Japan, I doubt it and it may not be possible to get exact replacements of the same quailty as what was installed orginally in Japan, unless you can get some that are still made in Japan??

 

[rwh963]

i would have to assume that they would be equal to originals (just because the vehicle was assembled in japan, doesn't mean every part was made there).

 

[AuSeeker]

i would have to assume that they would be equal to originals (just because the vehicle was assembled in japan, doesn't mean every part was made there).

uh, OK if that's what you think/assume, but I disagree, Toyota isn't going to import parts from the USA to build their vehicles in Japan.IMHO

 

[rwh963]

not impossible. toyota builds a lot of vehicles here in the USA. that includes the tacoma, tundra, sequoia, and highlander. i have no idea where all the parts are manufactured, but i assume many are domestic. no reason why calipers can't be made here and shipped to japan.

 

[trd_v8_sport]

front calipers on mine ave been an onging problem. the first time i went to replace mine my coworker (parts manager) told me to go with oreileys only because they have a lifetime warranty and he could only do 12mo warranty on OEM. went with oreiley (at about 120k) and ive done my passenger side twice (now at 191k). luckily its not that hard to do them with a speed bleeder and a clamp. if you do go the oreileys route, be sure to check your casting number on the caliper depending on the trim of your truck to make sur eyou have the right replacement.

 

[rwh963]

just got to back with replacement caliper. of course working fine now. will talk to shop about future warranty issue procedure. no labor cost this time. if i ever need to do a full front replacement, i will probably go back to toyota parts ($650 for calipers/rotors/pads).

 

[nevada]

just got to back with replacement caliper. of course working fine now. will talk to shop about future warranty issue procedure. no labor cost this time. if i ever need to do a full front replacement, i will probably go back to toyota parts ($650 for calipers/rotors/pads).

im surprised they didn't charge labor. its not the shops fault that the calipers failed. this is something we deal with quite frequently. very seldom will the parts supplier pay on a labor claim. SOMEONE has to pay the labor.


that does seem like fairly low miles for them to be seizing though. people say that the 5th gen calipers are better, but I don't see how. I believe the problem to be water in the system that settles in the calipers. maybe having the fluid flushed once a year would help extend the life.


I know that on this site, this is a "common" problem. but I own a brake shop, and other than my own personal vehicle, I have not ran into this issue. in fact, I rarely get one of these in for a brake job at all.

 

[rwh963]

i've been going to this independent shop for a long time. they made a good profit on the first set of calipers ($95 retail, $140 ea for me; why i normally source my own parts). they also, in my opinion, charged a lot for the two previous warranty replacements ($160 for a single caliper swap; typically full front labor is about $160).

i told them i thought i shouldn't have to pay for labor a fourth time (original plus two warranties). they agreed, and added a new brake hose (replaced last time)
to eliminate that possibility.

 

[rjordan392]

It's been a while since I participated in this forum and I want to add my experience with my brake system on my 2004 4 Runner.

At 30,800 miles, both front calipers were sticking and were replaced by a Toyota dealer.
At 44,225 miles, both rear rotors were replaced by an independent dealer.
At 64,375 miles, both front calipers were seized up and replaced along with the rotors by a Toyota dealer.

So it appears to me that there is a defect in the design of the calipers.
I always start out slowly to be begin my acceleration and I brake the same way.
This is the way I have always driven my cars or suv's.
And I thought one could not go wrong by buying a Toyota.

 

[geurillawarfare]

It's been a while since I participated in this forum and I want to add my experience with my brake system on my 2004 4 Runner.

At 30,800 miles, both front calipers were sticking and were replaced by a Toyota dealer.
At 44,225 miles, both rear rotors were replaced by an independent dealer.
At 64,375 miles, both front calipers were seized up and replaced along with the rotors by a Toyota dealer.

So it appears to me that there is a defect in the design of the calipers.
I always start out slowly to be begin my acceleration and I brake the same way.
This is the way I have always driven my cars or suv's.
And I thought one could not go wrong by buying a Toyota.

There is absolutely and always has been a serious design defect in the calipers for this generation.

If you have worked closely with Japanese before, you will understand why they do not address the issue - The same reason they haven't addressed the frame rust issues on this generation. They designed it and built it or directly supervised the build. The Tacoma frames made by Dana could be blamed on Dana without losing face. Admitting the problems with this generation (and with the calipers, and other well known issues) means losing face and this is very difficult because of how their culture works. They will eventually concede but it takes a long time and lots of formal fighting.

4 4runners of this generation in the family and we have probably replaced 20 front calipers between them over the past 10 years or so. Some under warranty and some not.

Coincidentally, this is also why Japanese are so resistant to change in their designs. Very cautious, they analyze everything to the n-th degree before stepping forward so that things like this don't happen. Very fascinating side of the automotive industry. Basically the opposite of FiatChrysler (What? It came out yesterday? Nobody knows if it works? PUT IT IN ALL TEH NEW CARS NOW I WANT IT ON THE DEALER LOT NEXT WEEK WHO CARES IF IT KILLS PEOPLE WE CAN LET THE LAWYERS HANDLE THAT)

Replace the calipers with good warrantied units and keep the paperwork if you keep the vehicle - You WILL need it.

 

[rjordan392]

Thanks,
I have the receipts for all the repairs since I bought the vehicle. On my next visit for maintenance, I will ask the service manager if there is a warranty or guarantee on the repair of my brake system. It cost me a bit over $900.00 for the calipers, rotors and pads.

 

[ScooterMD]

i bought a 2007 sport in late 2016 that had been in Ohio all its life. I moved it to Arizona after purchasing it and both front calipers froze about 3 months later. I used remanufactured A-1 Cardone (both cheap, like $45 each), which was an easy install (maybe 30 min? although I recall bleeding them being a PITA). No issues since, now almost 24 months and 10k miles later.

not sure how/if weather/moisture plays a role in this. i recently located to the NE; will keep an eye on them.

if this is a defect with the design, at least it's a problem that can be rather easily and cheaply fixed.

 

[geurillawarfare]

i bought a 2007 sport in late 2016 that had been in Ohio all its life. I moved it to Arizona after purchasing it and both front calipers froze about 3 months later. I used remanufactured A-1 Cardone (both cheap, like $45 each), which was an easy install (maybe 30 min? although I recall bleeding them being a PITA). No issues since, now almost 24 months and 10k miles later.

not sure how/if weather/moisture plays a role in this. i recently located to the NE; will keep an eye on them.

if this is a defect with the design, at least it's a problem that can be rather easily and cheaply fixed.

How does your frame look? Mine (with all the holes in it) is also from original Ohio owner. Near Toledo. I believe they drove regular winter trips up to Michigan so it probably saw more salt than the average Ohip T4R, however he washed it religiously (even gave receipts for this) and the body is in flawless shape, not a spot of rust - Only frame and axles/control arms are rusty. Even underneath the body is spotless.