Front wheel alignment shop needed

[Sarki]

Replaced LBJ’s & inner/outer tie rods.
Toe obviously way off as wheels both point inwards and also appear to be out at the top.
Front end looks to sit higher but not 100% certain of that.
Did my best to count threads and transfer from old to new tie rods but I must have missed.
Would greatly appreciate any recommendations on selecting a knowledgeable alignment shop.
Anything within reasonable distance Rhinebeck, NY 12572

 

[Bad Luck]

Do a tape measure front end alignment to get it close before driving it to get an alignment

 

[Sarki]

Do a tape measure front end alignment to get it close before driving it to get an alignment

Zero experience with that but doing a search now. If you know of a specific thread please point me in the right direction.

 

[Malcolm99]

You can even it out by measuring back and front of the opposing front tires, and by measuring off the back tires to the front tires, some even use string for toe front to back and make sure the Camber looks level with a simple level. After seeing some of the alignment jobs on here by professional shops, upside down cam adjusters, bent cam alignment tabs, uneven tierod thread adjustment, no camber or caster adjustment and out of spec alignment I would take it to the dealer and bring out this FSM for alignment and ask for a print out and make sure it falls dam close to ideal spec not just in range. Make sure your lower control arm adjusters spin freely before you take it in. Some shops don't know you adjust the LCA by loosening the adjuster bolt, and using the nut to adjust the LCA Cams, they turn the nut first bending the tabs.

http://www.teamtoyota4x4.org/archiv...toypdf/02rmsour/2002/024runne/sa/fwa/insp.pdf

 

[Sarki]

You can even it out by measuring back and front of the opposing front tires, and by measuring off the back tires to the front tires, some even use string and make sure the Camber looks level. After seeing some of the alignment jobs on here by professional shops, upside down cam adjusters, bent cam alignment tabs, uneven tierod thread adjustment, no camber or caster adjustment and out of spec alignment I would take it to the dealer and bring out this FSM for alignment and ask for a print out and make sure it falls dam close to ideal spec not just in range. Make sure your lower control arm adjusters spin freely before you take it in. Some shops don't know you adjust the LCA by loosening the adjuster bolt, and using the nut adjust the LCA Cams, they turn the nut first bending the tabs.

http://www.teamtoyota4x4.org/archiv...toypdf/02rmsour/2002/024runne/sa/fwa/insp.pdf

Thanks for link to specs.
I did just schedule with local dealer (Prestige Toyota) to bring Wednesday morning.
I can see without measuring both wheels have significant toe-in. I would like to make some basic adjustment to this before driving 25 miles to dealer.
Is the following correct.
1) Disconnect outer tie rod from LBJ
2) Loosen lock nut securing OTR to ITR
3) Spin OTR (clockwise to reduce toe-in?) to make adjustment
4) How many turns? Since OTR disconnected from LBJ I won’t see results until I reconnect OTR to LBJ. Do I need to reconnect OTR to LBJ each time I make a slight adjustment?
6) Is the goal to have both RT & LT sides show the same amount of threads remaining while both wheels remain straight (0 toe).

 

[Malcolm99]

Leave tie-rods connected!!, loosen Jam nut at outer tie-rod thread, remove tension clamp for steering rack boot/inner tie-rod so the boot doesn't twist when you twist the inner tie-rod shaft, turn inner tie-rod shaft to adjust accordingly, they are both standard RH thread. Follow FSM so that tie-rod thread is within 1mm of each other comparing both sides. 24miles isn't much, you'll be fine, but nice to have it close by eye, number of turns depends on each rig and how far its out.

The most likely thing to cause you issues at the alignment shop is seized LCA bushings, mark all 4 or 8 Cam washers using the factory marks on the components and make sure your Cams are not seized, if they are seized most alignment shops won't tell you or notice and they twist the bushing making for a terrible ride and an alignment that creeps out of spec over time as the bushing tears itself apart.

 

[Sarki]

Leave tie-rods connected!!, loosen Jam nut at outer tie-rod thread, remove tension clamp for steering rack boot/inner tie-rod so the boot doesn't twist when you twist the inner tie-rod shaft, turn inner tie-rod shaft to adjust accordingly, they are both standard RH thread. Follow FSM so that tie-rod thread is within 1mm of each other comparing both sides. 24miles isn't much, you'll be fine, but nice to have it close by eye, number of turns depends on each rig and how far its out.

The most likely thing to cause you issues at the alignment shop is seized LCA bushings, mark all 4 or 8 Cam washers using the factory marks on the components and make sure your Cams are not seized, if they are seized most alignment shops won't tell you or notice and they twist the bushing making for a terrible ride and an alignment that creeps out of spec over time as the bushing tears itself apart.

Bingo......the light bulb just lit!
I was under impression toe adjustment had to come by turning OTR assembly.
Thanks for the explanation, much clearer now.
I have been hitting the adjustment cams/hardware with Kroil for past few weeks in anticipation of alignment so hoping that preventative step pays off.

 

[Malcolm99]

Highly unlikely any penetrant will get to the sleeve of the LCA and the penetrant will actually cause the rubber to degrade and pose a problem later, you don't want petrol oil on rubber ever. It's 4 bolts and nuts, loosen them, make sure they move, if they don't move freely and you take it in, you'll have to do this all over again..

 

[Sarki]

Thanks again for the heads up.
Just applying Kroil to the hardware, not on the bushings themselves.
Hoping I don’t run into seized lower arm bushings but definitely a possibility given my northeast location.
I will give the hardware a try prior when I have on lift adjusting the toe.

 

[Bad Luck]

Thanks again for the heads up.
Just applying Kroil to the hardware, not on the bushings themselves.
Hoping I don’t run into seized lower arm bushings but definitely a possibility given my northeast location.
I will give the hardware a try prior when I have on lift adjusting the toe.

You can adjust the toe with the vehicle in the air, but lower it back on the tires and bounce the front end a couple times and pull forward or backward a few feet before rechecking

 

[astupidname]

If it's not too far, I work at an offroad shop in south central PA! We do alignments everyday, but might be a little too far to come to with a garage alignment! It's Mount Zion Offroad if you're interested

 

[Malcolm99]

^ Agree with Bad Luck, all these adjustments need to be done while vehicle is on the ground and with a settled suspension, some put plastic bags under the tires to let them slip easier while making adjustments but not really required.

 

[Bad Luck]

^ Agree with Bad Luck, all these adjustments need to be done while vehicle is on the ground and with a settled suspension, some put plastic bags under the tires to let them slip easier while making adjustments but not really required.

That's a good idea with the plastic bags! I used a couple cheap baking sheets greased on the bottom but they make a horrendous noise

 

[Sarki]

Just to clarify, what you guys are suggesting is make the toe adjustment while the front end is in the air (wheels off the ground) and then lower on slippery surface such as plastic bags, etc to check results?

 

[Sarki]

If it's not too far, I work at an offroad shop in south central PA! We do alignments everyday, but might be a little too far to come to with a garage alignment! It's Mount Zion Offroad if you're interested

This is good to know, will keep your info for future reference.
I’ll do my best to bring the toe back into closer adjustment and take to dealer Wednesday morning for complete alignment

 

[Malcolm99]

Do the adjustments while on the ground with plastic bags under the tire after the suspension has settled, you didn't do shocks but pull it in and out of the shop so everything settles and bring it in and make the adjustments while it is on the ground, no point in adjusting it at full droop as you have no baseline to measure from while the geometry is outta wack. To be honest you will have a hard time getting it close, get the tierods close and eyeball or stringline it and let the tech do his thing, post your alignment after.

 

[Sarki]

Made some progress.
Right side very close to 0 toe now based on tape measurements, major difference as it was close to a full inch toe-in before.
Left side giving me problem as still nearly 3/4” toe-in.
I basically adjusted right side to match thread count of left side.
Both sides now show 1 CM of threads which translates to 6 threads.
Any suggestions prior to bringing to dealer.
Can further left side but then significant difference in amount of threads showing side to side.
School me.........Why such a difference in toe side to side if thread count the same.

 

[Malcolm99]

To do an alignment you ball park toe, then use the LCA adjusters first to set Camber, Caster, then set toe with tie-rods, then go back and make sure Camber and caster are still good and basically even on both sides so the Cams mirror opposing sides, then go back and set toe again so that it is close to the same amount of threads, the steering wheel should end up straight this way as set from factory, you can bump the steering wheel shaft on the splines but it shouldn't be needed if front components, steering rack and LCA bushings are good and the vehicle hasn't been in an accident. Take it to the alignment shop, there is a lot of variables to account for that would be difficult to do with a measuring tape. Did you use OEM original OTR & ITR that seems pretty far outta whack even if you eyeballed the parts.

 

[Sarki]

To do an alignment you ball park toe, then use the LCA adjusters first to set Camber, Caster, then set toe with tie-rods, then go back and make sure Camber and caster are still good and basically even on both sides so the Cams mirror opposing sides, then go back and set toe again so that it is close to the same amount of threads, the steering wheel should end up straight this way as set from factory, you can bump the steering wheel shaft on the splines but it shouldn't be needed if front components, steering rack and LCA bushings are good and the vehicle hasn't been in an accident. Take it to the alignment shop, there is a lot of variables to account for that would be difficult to do with a measuring tape. Did you use OEM original OTR & ITR that seems pretty far outta whack even if you eyeballed the parts.

LBJ’s, inner & outer tie rods OEM factory Toyota purchased from reputable Toyota dealer.
No history of accident and strictly an on road driven vehicle.
I guess possibility of worn control arm bushings or steering rack but never any evidence of either presented.
I can try and adjust the toe further on the left side closer to 0 but will land up with way different amount of the threads remaining and a significant difference over 1.5mm side to side as noted in service manual.
I’ll play with it a bit more and if no good results leave for Dealer to hopefully put in spec tomorrow.
Problem is I have trust issues when comes to dealers/shops working on my vehicles.

 

[Malcolm99]

You can balance out the difference on the tierods by using the LCA adjusters. Try rocking the steering wheel back and forth while parked and look at the steering rack for movement at the bushings/mounts, if it's shifting you will have trouble setting the toe correctly. LCA bushings after 20 years and 240,000miles will probably have play in them throwing things off aswell. These are all great things to replace after this much time before going for an alignment.