Fuel Injection

[Jtraskell]

I just received an e-mail solicitation from the stealer where I bought my 4R. They are trying to persuade their customers to pay for "fuel injection" maintenance. I understand over time, injectors do indeed need to be serviced. I am wondering if their "explanation" as to why you should buy their service is accurate. e.g. the "wax" build up. I always thought a variety of pollutants contribute in the overall "clogging" of injectors and a simple inspection and cleaning would suffice in making it all good. Here is partially what they said;

The Culprit: Today’s gasoline has wax properties. When you turn off your vehicle, gasoline droplets remain in the injector and on the injector. The heat from the engine promotes the baking of the wax residue. That build up will clogged the injectors and cause a loss of mileage, poor performance and increased emissions. There is no way to prevent this build up and over time maintenance is required. It’s recommend servicing of your fuel injectors every 18-20,000 miles.

The collective thoughts of the group would be appreciated. Thanks in advance and be safe.

 

[philsey]

Curious what they charge?

I couldn't support this with fact, but my guess is this is horse-puckey. Also interested in what a knowledgeable opinion will be. Don't we have a Toyota tech on here?

 

[FactoryRide]

I use Gumout Fuel injection cleaner every 3000 miles. Just pour in at almost empty and then fill up.

 

[SeattleMike]

Wax my a$$. Gasoline leaves residue, ask anyone whose had to clean a carburetor, but the gas has to evaporate for that to happen. And the residue is not "wax" (which would melt away at operating temp) but more like shellac, which has to be dissolved by something stronger than gasoline... which is why they make carb cleaner.

Save your money until a performance problem develops. Anything that happens to them in the first 60k miles is warranty anyway.

 

[Antman]

Wax my a$$...

Any takers for the hair removal? :moon:




...sorry OP couldn't resist.


I think it's horsesh!t too FTR.

 

[Jtraskell]

Any takers? :moon:




...sorry OP couldn't resist.


I think it's horsesh!t too FTR.

I agree. Cleaned a few carbs in my life. Isopropyl alcohol does wonders over night on the needles and jets. But that was was shellac, not "wax". And that was done in the days before ethynoal....so maybe now more or different crap builds up? Just wondering.

 

[harper7]

BG 44K about once a year.

Here's a good read I just found and agree with..........http://www.eioba.com/a/3vd/car-repair-prices-fuel-injection-services-are-they-worth-it

 

[terra4r]

good gas as recommended...

if anything you'll get horrible gas mileage from your norm and you'd know there was a problem. I wouldn't worry about it, just stick with good gas and its all good. I think it's chapter 6 (pg 623+) in the manual that goes on and on about gas quality...

honestly I'd be more worried about carbon build up than injectors gumming up. 4GR-FSE (IS250) guys are having tons of problems with carbon build up and they're direct injection too. Interestingly enough, 2GR's (IS350's) aren't, as they have dual port and direct injection. But anyways, back to the T4R...

 

[Jtraskell]

Thanks guys. Do not know what my dealer would charge, but I think anything over free at this point is too much! Harper, I have used Seafoam in the past, your thoughts on that product vs. BG44? Looking at the various posts and the ongoing debate in different forums, seems they both do about the same.......I have used Gumout as factoryride suggests years ago, but it seemed to fall out of favor when Seafoam and BG came on the market.

 

[philsey]

.... I wouldn't worry about it, just stick with good gas and its all good. ..... QUOTE]

Curious as to how one knows "good" gas from "bad" gas?

Price? Brand?

 

[westwind77]

I'm in the marine industry, and yes, boats are different than cars, but today's new 4-stroke fuel injected engines are close. I will say the amount of 'injector problems' we see are on the increase. The problems are not with the injectors themselves but with screen/filter before them. That screen can/does get very clogged up with 'debris' resulting in the engines not able to even get the boat on plane. We can send these filters/screens out to get cleaned & flow tested, which we do. The flow tests can come back with results in the single digits for flow when they are suppose to be a peak around 50. That being said, the fuel system of a boat is more 'open' than that of a car/truck due to the vent system. However, the fuel that we pump is only 93 octane. Our boats also sit for 7 to 8 months during the winter (properly winterized though), but still no fresh fuel is flowing through. So...do I think it is possible to encounter injector issues with the 4R, very possible, but no way @ 20k! A cleaning at 50k or 75k, maybe, and ONLY if there are noticeable problems. We only service the injectors when the performance drops, and we can attribute that drop to the injectors. The engines we deal with have low hours, had one boat with less that 100 hours and their injectors were clogged, yet others with 100's of hours are running fine. I have 14k on mine & almost 2 years old, no way I'm taking it in for injector service, feels like she is still breaking in! I know on some of the engines the injectors are easy to get to and others are a real PIA and labor intensive. Would be curious to know how easy they are to get to on the 4R & what they charge.

 

[Jtraskell]

I'm in the marine industry, and yes, boats are different than cars, but today's new 4-stroke fuel injected engines are close. I will say the amount of 'injector problems' we see are on the increase. The problems are not with the injectors themselves but with screen/filter before them. That screen can/does get very clogged up with 'debris' resulting in the engines not able to even get the boat on plane. We can send these filters/screens out to get cleaned & flow tested, which we do. The flow tests can come back with results in the single digits for flow when they are suppose to be a peak around 50. That being said, the fuel system of a boat is more 'open' than that of a car/truck due to the vent system. However, the fuel that we pump is only 93 octane. Our boats also sit for 7 to 8 months during the winter (properly winterized though), but still no fresh fuel is flowing through. So...do I think it is possible to encounter injector issues with the 4R, very possible, but no way @ 20k! A cleaning at 50k or 75k, maybe, and ONLY if there are noticeable problems. We only service the injectors when the performance drops, and we can attribute that drop to the injectors. The engines we deal with have low hours, had one boat with less that 100 hours and their injectors were clogged, yet others with 100's of hours are running fine. I have 14k on mine & almost 2 years old, no way I'm taking it in for injector service, feels like she is still breaking in! I know on some of the engines the injectors are easy to get to and others are a real PIA and labor intensive. Would be curious to know how easy they are to get to on the 4R & what they charge.

Because it seems some of you want to know, Lakeland Toyota, Lakeland Florida, charges $99.95 for the injector service. What they explained to me is that they disconnect the fuel system from the tank, use a pressurized tank full of solvent and I presume gas, pump through the fuel system while the engine is running at a"high idle", supposedly cleaning the lines, fuel rails, injector tips, regulator etc. etc. I do not know much about fuel injector systems, so not sure this is the way to go, when and if needed.

 

[SeattleMike]

.... I wouldn't worry about it, just stick with good gas and its all good. .....

Curious as to how one knows "good" gas from "bad" gas?

Price? Brand?

Brand mostly. When I was young and working for under-the-table wages, I used ARCO in my '85 22r pick-up because it was cheap and that engine will run on just about anything. When my wife got her Camry, I did some looking into what was "new" in fuel since I left the motorcycle industry and ethanol had become so prevalent.

What it boiled down to is this: The refinery makes a bunch of gas and splits it into batches, that are then sent to storage tanks, where each "brand" (Shell, ARCO/BP, ConocoPhillips, etc.) mix in their own additives, most of which is ethanol in the winter but can be other stuff like Nitrogen, various detergents, and whatnot. Companies like Valero might get their gas from the same refinery, yet only add ethanol* to the mix to save a few pennies on the pump price. Every gas company has their own recipe for each grade and brand.

I used to use Shell exclusively, but on one road trip, earlier this year, I intentionally used only Chevron and my mileage increased by 2MPG on the highway over the same road I had taken two weeks before. I'm not claiming Chevron makes better gas, just that I get better mileage in my specific truck using it. If you stick with any of the major national brands, you should never have a fuel quality issue. If you go bargain basement, you will have issues, whether is be MPG or particulates or just a lack of detergents keeping things clean.

I hope that helps.

*example only, I have no information on what formula Valero uses.

 

[terra4r]

.... I wouldn't worry about it, just stick with good gas and its all good. .....

Curious as to how one knows "good" gas from "bad" gas?

Price? Brand?

I would say brand, and a reputable station for your usual fill up spot. Price is speculation based anyways. :gun6: There really is no way to "know" unless you're some sort of fuel tester. If you have problems, change said brand.

Choose fuels with no lower than 87 octane, having detergent additives, and cleaner/reformulated gasoline (contains ethanol or MTBE) per the manual.

 

[Beakerbox]

Apparently when purchasing a gasoline brand - you might not get what you think.. Best explained with an example.. Lets say, Shell have a refinery in the north - BP have a refinery 1,000 miles to the South.. It doesn't make sense for fuel companies to transport their gas from one end of the country to the other so they don't - All the fuel companies trade their basic fuel based on distribution to different destinations, prior to additives being put in. Local distribution plants add the additives and that's what makes it a particular brand.

People find some brands are cleaner than others - that could also be related to particular stations with dirty tanks rather than the brand they sell... For the most part it's all the same - except for the additives!