Fuel Pump?

[JayRolla]

Is there anything else I need or should watch out for? Just pull the connector via the hole under the seat, drop the skid plate, drop the tank?

Do I need the cushion under the pump, it says that it's not included.

You need to disconnect the fuel lines, evap lines, filler neck, make sure you get all cables off the top. People tend to miss something.

Cushion is on the old pump.

If you ever plan on a supercharger this would be the time to install a denso Evo 8 or 9 fuel pump.

 

[JHILDE]

You need to disconnect the fuel lines, evap lines, filler neck, make sure you get all cables off the top. People tend to miss something.

Cushion is on the old pump.

If you ever plan on a supercharger this would be the time to install a denso Evo 8 or 9 fuel pump.

Will a 20 year old cushion with 372,xxx miles on it still have any good left in it?

No supercharger, we plan on making it to 1 million miles in as close to original condition as possible.

 

[zoombyu86]

I had this happen. Kept getting a lean code beforehand. Then over a few months had some sputters when accelerations. Then had the engine fumble as if the MAF was disconnected. switched that out with no luck and then it finally wouldnt start. pulled the pump and it tested good in every way. checked everything and then checked again in a few days and it tested bad.

Can be tricky if its not a constant fault. Used the Denso from rockauto and works great now.

 

[TheDurk]

Is there anything else I need or should watch out for? Just pull the connector via the hole under the seat, drop the skid plate, drop the tank?

Do I need the cushion under the pump, it says that it's not included.

I re-used the old cushion. It was pristine at 17 years and 170k. Not sure if miles make any difference to that part. I sort of doubt it. I'd say get new only if OCD. The Denso kit has everything else except the gasket. You need to disconnect a bunch of stuff like [MENTION=50342]JayRolla[/MENTION] said.

Also, obviously, you want to drain the tank. The weight is unmanageable if you don't. If you get pump going, you can use that by breaking the pump line and hot-wiring. I put the end of the line inside a piece of garden hose and routed that to a five-gallon tank. Otherwise, you need to siphon from the hole. I was doing a frame swap so I hot-wired my still-good pump. Took maybe ten minutes to drain I think a third of a tank, don't really remember how much gas. Make and break last connection at the battery not at the tank--just good practice.

Other tip is on the three bolts at the forward end: the outside two hold tank and skid, the middle one holds just the tank. So just pull the outside two on the first go round and tank will stay in place while you pull the skid. This may not be obvious under mud and junk and is good to know going in. I wish I had.

 

[the great him]

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/177970-fuel-tank-removal-step-step-diy-w-pics.html

 

[the great him]

before you drop the tank, get a couple clean 5 gallon buckets and disconnect the fuel line at the filter, then jump the fuel pump with direct power and use the fuel pump to pump out as much fuel as you can out of the tank into the clean buckets. you will either thank me later or wish you had... i have removed several empty tanks and a few half full tanks, and various in between... lets just say i have made some jumper wires to never have to remover another full or half full tank again in my life if i can help it.

 

[JayRolla]

before you drop the tank, get a couple clean 5 gallon buckets and disconnect the fuel line at the filter, then jump the fuel pump with direct power and use the fuel pump to pump out as much fuel as you can out of the tank into the clean buckets. you will either thank me later or wish you had... i have removed several empty tanks and a few half full tanks, and various in between... lets just say i have made some jumper wires to never have to remover another full or half full tank again in my life if i can help it.

How do you do this if the fuel pump has failed?

 

[the great him]

How do you do this if the fuel pump has failed?

well obviously his is not 100% dead, as he was able to bang on it and get it to fire up... do that and drain as much fuel as possible. who flipping cares about hurting the pump, its on its death bed and being a jerk about its will and assets. lol

but thats why i also ended the post with "if i can help it"

 

[JayRolla]

well obviously his is not 100% dead, as he was able to bang on it and get it to fire up... do that and drain as much fuel as possible. who flipping cares about hurting the pump, its on its death bed and being a jerk about its will and assets. lol

but thats why i also ended the post with "if i can help it"

Ohh snap!! I'm behind. I didnt realize he got that to work. My bad!!

Yeah I did mine at about 1/2 full by myself. I was able to balance it on my floor jack with a board. I should have drained it but thought I could muscle it. I did but it sucked!!

 

[fourfive]

Is there anything else I need or should watch out for? Just pull the connector via the hole under the seat, drop the skid plate, drop the tank?

Do I need the cushion under the pump, it says that it's not included.

My cushion also looked new at ~175K but I replaced it because I was replacing everything else on my tank.

Whenever I'm working with multiple hoses or wires, I try to take before pics and mark where things go with a small piece of tape or a silver sharpie so I don't waste time trying to figure out if I routed everything correctly. I didn't do it when I dropped my tank but luckily the hoses that go to the top of the tank had specific lengths which helped to get things connected back to their correct locations.

If you don't have a floor jack, you can use a large cardboard box (~8-12" tall) as a cushion/support to rest the gas tank on when you're getting everything disconnected.

 

[TheDurk]

My cushion also looked new at ~175K but I replaced it because I was replacing everything else on my tank.

Whenever I'm working with multiple hoses or wires, I try to take before pics and mark where things go with a small piece of tape or a silver sharpie so I don't waste time trying to figure out if I routed everything correctly. I didn't do it when I dropped my tank but luckily the hoses that go to the top of the tank had specific lengths which helped to get things connected back to their correct locations.

If you don't have a floor jack, you can use a large cardboard box (~8-12" tall) as a cushion/support to rest the gas tank on when you're getting everything disconnected.

Good point. On my '99, there are three lines coming forward, one with a screw union and two with hose clips. I undid one clip at the forward end and the other at the rear end, so I knew I could only put them back one way. The union was also a no-brainer.

The years with the charcoal in the rear are different.

You can sort of see on the left where I left one line connected and the other the hose is pulled off. The opposite occurs off-pic further back. So no need to label.

The one on the frame is a brake line. Don't touch that for a fuel tank pull.

 

[JHILDE]

Just an update. USPS got the pump and gasket here from Amazon on 1-11 in the afternoon. I wasn't expecting it until 1-12 so it took me a little while to be able to start working on it. I unhooked the battery and got to work. The only thing I did differently that the write-ups was instead of breaking the main fuel line at the edge of the tank and at the fuel filter, I just took it apart at the fuel filter and took that short piece of metal line out with the tank. I had a little trouble with the vent tube after I dropped the tank because I didn't realize that part of the hard metal line was attached to a bracket and wouldn't just slide out too.

I got everything apart, replaced the pump, and got the tank back in place. The vent tube was a PITA to get reconnected. I had a hard time getting the pliers on the clamp and getting my arm wiggled into the right direction. It was dark and getting cool outside so I decided to stop and finish the next day.

Go the new fuel filter and the filler neck back in place and the skid plate on. That's when I realized that I forgot to clip the tail light harness (I think that's what it is) back to the top of the tank. I'm not sure how, but I was eventually able to slide my hand into the access hole in the seat and get it clipped back in. Got everything else finished and put about 4 gallons of gas in it. Left the key on for a second to get some gas in the line (then I remembered that pump does not have power unless the engine is turning over). Slightly extended start and it fired right up. Drove it to the gas station and everything seemed fine.

Had to make a 116 mile trip and everything worked great. Put a new air filter in it the next day and filled up at the same time. We decided that we needed to run some errands about an hour away so we took the 4Runner. Loaded the bicycles in the back and took a short day-trip to ride some trails while we were out. Stopped and got gas on the way home and averaged 20.5mpg.

 

[KD5NRH]

Sounds similar to what happened to me today: 113 miles into a full tank, topped off yesterday while going to a doctor appointment out of town.
Ran fine for that trip, then to work this morning, then to a restaurant to get some dinner. Leaving the restaurant, it was good for about half a mile, then started sputtering. Within a quarter mile, no matter what I did with the gas pedal, it just barely sputtered hard enough to creep along.
Got it into a parking lot, realized it was exactly out-of-gas symptoms. Confirmed ~11V at the pump blue/orange wire while cranking. Plugged the pump back in, tried it, and just sort of caught, maybe one full crank revolution, and died. Banged around the pump connector. It started, ran rough for about 30 seconds, and died. Cranked a few more times with the same quick sputter and die, banged around the pump again, got maybe 15 seconds of rough idle, sputter and die. Thought about maybe bad gas, but it doesn't make sense to get 100+ miles into the tank with no symptoms, then suddenly hit gas bad enough to not run within such a short time.
Anything else I should check before dropping the tank? Hopefully I can get it hauled the four miles home tonight so I will at least have a few more tools that - for whatever reason - weren't already in the back.

Of course, I also found out my AAA expired in November, and they sent the renewal notice to my old address. They text me all the time, but decide to do that only by mail.

 

[2TH4IST]

11v is to low, it should be battery voltage. What is your battery voltage? But the pump suddenly dying is not unheard of. I mean they are 25+ years old. I'd drop the tank replace it with a good pump, then test your charging/battery.

 

[KD5NRH]

11v is to low, it should be battery voltage. What is your battery voltage? But the pump suddenly dying is not heard of. I mean they are 25+ years old. I'd drop the tank replace it with a good pump, then test your charging/battery.

I'd been cranking on it for a while at that point, so I'm sure I'd run it down somewhat. I did put a jumper pack on, (unfortunately, one of the fancy LiFePo ones that won't send 12V unless it detects it's being used properly, so I couldn't use it direct to the pump as a test) and it didn't help, though I didn't re-test voltage at the pump with it on.

I wish the banging worked as well for me as it did for others in the thread: 5mi would get me home, and 8 each way for work and the parts store tomorrow, so I'd be set. OTOH, going from a sputter to actually starting and running, albeit badly, after banging on it pretty much tells me what I'm banging on is the problem.

 

[2TH4IST]

Yeah good point re: cranking and batt voltage. It sucks but the pump lived a long life lol.

 

[KD5NRH]

Yeah good point re: cranking and batt voltage. It sucks but the pump lived a long life lol.

Yeah, I can't be too mad at something that lasted 27 years when lots of new cars need one within 7.

Once I get it home I can run 12V straight to the pump and see what it does. Clearly it can do something, but the engine sounds so out of gas I'm pretty sure it's either super weak or intermittent.

 

[KD5NRH]

Ok, so we got the trailer to it, and I tried cranking it up to see if we could just drive it on before it died. It sputtered, coughed and died before I could put it in gear.

Of course, no winch, so a fun ordeal with a come along to get it loaded. Got it home and gravity did all the work to unload. Hooked up a trickle charger (I've probably cranked it for a total of 5-10 minutes without getting more than 30 seconds of actual running time at any point) and headed in to let my arms recover while I watch a couple of videos and make notes of which tools I'll need at what point. (So much easier when you can just take the 4-5 tools you actually need rather than digging through a toolbag while you're under there. Faye Hadley rocks for putting all the tools needed in their own chapter so I can jump right to that spot instead of going through the whole video again like with 1AAuto.)

For whatever reason, I decided to try it again. Cranked right up and ran smooth for at least a solid minute before I got over the surprise and shut it off. Throttle response was normal. It's sitting maybe 3-4 degrees nose up, though I wouldn't think that would change anything.

I'm guessing maybe the load, haul and unload jostled the pump enough to make it work a bit, so I'll probably go ahead and replace it, but I'm going to start with the filter and see how bad it is, since it looks original.

 

[2TH4IST]

Damn that sucks that you had to use a comealong to get the runner on the trailer. I would also start with a fuel filter, pump and the pumps strainer (some don't come with them).

That is odd it started right up, but like you said maybe it jostled the pump just right.

 

[KD5NRH]

Damn that sucks that you had to use a comealong to get the runner on the trailer. I would also start with a fuel filter, pump and the pumps strainer (some don't come with them).

That is odd it started right up, but like you said maybe it jostled the pump just right.

Yeah, the couple minutes of solid running would have saved four rounds of ratchet, chock, reset and ratchet again.

Got the filter changed, (whoever picked that bracket bolt should be waterboarded, but with gasoline - 2 more mm and it would be so easy) started it up, and it ran for about 30 seconds, then sputtered and died. Started again, and it was good for at least as long, until I unplugged the pump, when it acted exactly the same after about 3-4 more seconds of good running. Not sure how long it should run on the ideal pressure, but that gives me a baseline of how much extra is in the lines once the pump quits.

Now for the dreaded tank drop. Trouble is, I've still got 10-12 gallons in there, so I guess I'm about to find out if it has any siphon prevention.

EDIT: I guess 37 miles of filler neck with 90 degree bends is siphon prevention.