Geico, are you freaking kidding me???

[jhmoore]

Have only had an offroad vehicle since last summer and hadn't really thought about what my Geico coverage might or might not cover, but after reading some comments about offroad claims not being covered, I reached out to Geico today to ask what would and would not be covered.

Conversation with Geico respresentatives on March 6, 2019


ME:

[sent internet inquiry as to what types of offroad activities wouldn’t be covered; asked specific questions about maintained gravel roads versus maintained dirt roads versus things like desert washes; Geico didn’t send me a copy of my original inquiry and there doesn’t appear to be a way to see it online; I asked them to be specific in their response both regarding my specific coverage and various road types]


GEICO:

We received your inquiry regarding your vehicle being covered when used for off-road. We will be happy to assist you.

Your personal auto insurance policy provides coverage when your vehicle is driven for personal use.

Please note that if an accident occurs when using the vehicle off-road, the claim may not be covered. After the claim occurs, our Claims department would determine if the claim would be covered.


ME:

That is absolutely nowhere near a specific enough response. Please provide what was requested, in detail. Thank you.


GEICO:

We apologize for any frustration in our response.

Because no one claim is the same, we are unable to provide a specific answer to your question. Each claim is reviewed individually by the Claims Adjuster assigned to the claim.

Typically speaking, your personal auto policy does not coverer your vehicle while being used for off-road driving.


ME:

Which gets to a definition of “off road”

What is that definition for my specific policy?

Is a gravel road maintained by a county/state or the federal government (national park, BLM, forest service) “off road”?

Is a dirt road similarly maintained “off road”?

You have to actually define the terms.


GEICO:

We received your question regarding off-road.

Generally if a road is not maintained by the municipalities, it is considered off-road.



ME:

Please define “municipality”

[snip responding to nonsense about my email address]

So... please define “municipality”... and just in general, there is no way that Geico doesn’t have a formal definition of “off road”—so what is it? Why not just be up front and honest?


GEICO:

We apologize for any confusion due to our previous email response.

We tried to call you to further discuss this matter, but we were unable to reach you.

Unfortunately, we are unable to define exactly what would be considered off-road use because this can vary depending on where you are. When a claim is made, our claims adjusters would be the ones to determine whether it was off-road usage or not. If you are using your vehicle for off-road purposes, please note that the claim would not be a covered claim.

 

[jhmoore]

Anyone have experience with Geico and what they do and do not cover, or what the heck their definition of offroad is????

 

[MAST4R]

Anyone have experience with Geico and what they do and do not cover, or what the heck their definition of offroad is????

No idea, but I am not surprised by the answer. Off-pavement driving is regulated by far too many agencies, local authorities, etc to make for an easy response.

We use "offroad" for everything unpaved, but "offroad" on signage refers to cross-country travel which is almost always illegal.

I think that any decent insurer should cover us on any legal 4WD HC road, be it park road, municipal road, county road, whatever. The Rubicon Trail for example is a road as are the various passes in the San Juan mountains. National park, BLM land, monuments, forest roads and trails, etc marked as open to street legal vehicles on official maps such as park maps or MVUMS all are legal routes and so we should be covered.

What happens on designated OHV trails like Hells Revenge or Fins and Things, I am not sure. I suppose much would depend on the specific policy, person, etc.

But realistically, other than rolling over, what problems do you anticipate on OHV trails? I have come close to a head on collision with a distracted driver but that was an unpaved road, where normal insurance practices apply.

Maybe [MENTION=118321]Jetboy[/MENTION] knows?

 

[Dillusion]

They won't give you a clear answer for reason.

Not going screw themselves now just in case. CYA in play here.

 

[Bayou_Pro]

They won't give you a clear answer for reason.

Not going screw themselves now just in case. CYA in play here.

Exactly. They will stay vague until the time come and they can deny your claim. I hate all insurance companies. What a racket!!

 

[MeefZah]

I think you're being deliberately obtuse.

If it's a road, we both know what that is. Gravel, dirt, pavement; if it's maintained for purposes of vehicular travel then.... it's a road.

If it's not a road... well we both know what that is, too. That's the opposite.

You're basically asking them to tell you that when you endo on Poison Spyder that they'll cover you; and they quite logically are telling you "dude, it's case by case because there's a lot of variables at play". They even tried to call you to maybe give you specifics, but like so many keyboard cowboys you didn't answer the phone. Somehow they're dicks in this?

I've never had an offroad claim but Geico has handled 2 different claims for on road stuff; hit a deer on my motorcycle in 2012 and just had two bikes burn in a house fire (they literally paid that out yesterday and it happened 6 days ago). They have always been phenomenal and have paid out more than I thought was fair.

If you don't like their answers and don't trust the coverage then get a different insurer. I'm sure Warren Buffet don't need your $80/ month.

 

[jhmoore]

I managed to get ahold of my original inquiry with Geico. It read,

Regarding my new(ish) 4Runner and for my specific auto insurance coverage, under what conditions would you not cover a claim because the vehicle was being used in a manner that might be considered "offroad"? I've had some suggest that "offroad" accidents might be denied because the vehicle wasn't on a regular, paved road. What is the reality of my specific coverage? If I'm on an unpaved road (gravel, dirt, rock) that is maintained by some agency -- forest service, county, National Park Service, etc, am I covered? If I'm in a desert wash that is not maintained but is commonly used by vehicles, am I covered? Please be very specific. Thank you.

 

[jhmoore]

I think you're being deliberately obtuse.

Not sure if you're a troll or not, but I am not being deliberately obtuse, I am trying to make an informed decision. There is no way that a company the size of Geico doesn't have a policy on what is and is not considered "offroad" if they do not cover "offroad."

If I understood that definition, I could make some decisions

(a) is my policy good enough, and just accept some risk when I'm outside their definitions?
(b) are their definitions unrealistic and I really should look for different coverage?
(c) avoid certain circumstances so as to stay within my coverage?

I can't make any of those decisions without information.

 

[jordanrb81]

So I carry a property and casualty license and have for 11 years. here in NH we have road classes you are covered by insurance on road classes 1-5 on a class 6 road which is "not maintained by the town or state and subject to gates and bars" you're not covered. Also as a general rule you can count on no coverage for a "self inflicted wound" there is a vague paragraph in most personal auto policies that goes over "the duty of a reasonable and prudent person." in most cases off road what you're looking at is a single vehicle accident that will inarguably be your fault, your fault because you made an error or your fault for simply being there. The smart money says operate under the assumption that it isn't covered, if you fall off a trail and hit a tree, that's on you. If you can't afford to take a risk like that I would think twice about doing it. This isn't that different than driving on a race track, there's no insurance on a private track, so if you clean out a Ferrari you better have that cash on hand in your checking account because GEICO isn't going to cover your claim. For the most part and specialty/high risk or high performance driving off road or on a private track isn't going to be claimable under a normal insurance policy. Those policies are boiler plate issued and for the masses. Up here in Northern New England there are a lot of dirt roads with dozens of houses on them, if they're plowed and graded by the town your insurance coverage is certainly intact. Again if you're on an unmaintained road (Class VI) or private land, off road park etc. I simply wouldn't expect coverage, State insurance laws vary wildly so your mileage may vary.

 

[MeefZah]

Not sure if you're a troll or not, but I am not being deliberately obtuse, I am trying to make an informed decision. There is no way that a company the size of Geico doesn't have a policy on what is and is not considered "offroad" if they do not cover "offroad."

If I understood that definition, I could make some decisions

(a) is my policy good enough, and just accept some risk when I'm outside their definitions?
(b) are their definitions unrealistic and I really should look for different coverage?
(c) avoid certain circumstances so as to stay within my coverage?

I can't make any of those decisions without information.

Then maybe you should answer the ****ing phone when they call!

 

[jhmoore]

Then maybe you should answer the ****ing phone when they call!

They either didn’t call or called my wife, who didn’t answer. Either way, I want the answer in writing. But thanks for trolling!

 

[jhmoore]

here in NH we have road classes you are covered by insurance on road classes 1-5 on a class 6 road which is "not maintained by the town or state and subject to gates and bars" you're not covered.

[MENTION=199597]jordanrb81[/MENTION] — great info, thank you! This is exactly the kind of thing that I would like to get out of Geico. Simple, relatively straightforward rules.

 

[MeefZah]

They either didn’t call or called my wife, who didn’t answer. Either way, I want the answer in writing. But thanks for trolling!

Yeah, I'm the troll who started a ****ing thread to complain that my insurance wouldn't give me a written response for how they would handle every conceivable claim that might could ever be filed.

 

[jordanrb81]

[MENTION=199597]jordanrb81[/MENTION] — great info, thank you! This is exactly the kind of thing that I would like to get out of Geico. Simple, relatively straightforward rules.

well before you go celebrating, do you have those road classifications in California? do they mean the same thing? Also I am not licensed in California but for the most part the insurance policies are kinda the same nationwide.

another thing that may come as a surprise to you, and should check on. Most US insurance doesn't cover you in Mexico.. in New Hampshire that's really not a problem, but I always wonder about those that going to Mexico is not big deal and whether they're aware of such things. lucky for us coverage does extend to Canada, which is just over an hour away.

 

[jhmoore]

well before you go celebrating, do you have those road classifications in California? do they mean the same thing? Also I am not licensed in California but for the most part the insurance policies are kinda the same nationwide.

another thing that may come as a surprise to you, and should check on. Most US insurance doesn't cover you in Mexico.. in New Hampshire that's really not a problem, but I always wonder about those that going to Mexico is not big deal and whether they're aware of such things. lucky for us coverage does extend to Canada, which is just over an hour away.

Yes, not celebrating yet. Just appreciative of a meaningful response... even if for the wrong state. It gives me something to ask about.

Mexico: yes, you have to purchase Mexican auto insurance before crossing the border.

Thanks!

 

[Jetboy]

I don't know a specific answer, but in general it'll be up to two things: the insurance contract language of your policy and the laws of the state you're in.

I would guess that the general rule is that you're covered for anything you do with a full coverage policy. The full coverage policies are largely in place to protect the lender, not the owner. So the banks typically would lobby in each state for very comprehensive coverage. But that will depend on what state you're in.

I do think it's completely reasonable to both ask and expect an answer regarding whether a certain type of activity is covered by your contract with your insurance company. In any contract it is important to understand the rights and obligations each party is agreeing to. I also think your insurance company would want to know if you have modified your vehicle, how you did it, and what your overall level of risk is. You can buy insurance for anything. Whether you currently are paying for what you want is a different issue. I think it's fine to ask what the limits are of the policy and/or if you need to buy another policy to cover what you want it to.

Out of curiosity I reviewed my personal policy. It has no exclusions for off-road use, or even track use. I suspect my state prohibits such exclusions. The risk of loss due to offroad or track use is small compared to the risk of medical bills in a regular crash. The language states;

Subject to the limits of liability, if “you” pay the premium for Comprehensive Coverage, “we” will pay for a
sudden, direct, and accidental “loss” to:
A. “Your” “covered auto” for which Comprehensive Coverage has been purchased, as stated in “your”
Declarations page;
B. A “non-owned auto”; or
C. A “trailer” titled to “you”.

There are a lot of exclusions, but basically they are: you can't rent your car to someone else, use it for hauling people or stuff for money, and they won't pay for anything you modify or any personal property inside the vehicle or trailer.

 

[Ausumm]

Look at it this way...
Insurance companies of ANY kind don't make money by paying claims.
So, they will use any loophole they can.
If they can find a way to deny your claim in a regular, run-of-the-mill fender bender...
you can be pretty sure they won't cover you for an off road accident.
Same as if you got in an accident driving on the sidewalk.
Mainly because "it could be avoided".

But I am not an insurance professional.

 

[Bumbo]

I have a bunch of friends in the insurance game, but I don’t do it personally.

1st off I would work with a better insurance provider… Geico is notorious for weaseling themselves out of claims… On top of that, the person in a web window chat is NOT making any of these decisions, it’s going to be up to claims if you have an accident. Your history as a customer will come into play when they determine if they even pay you out if it’s in one of those “gray areas” when it comes to definition.

2nd, you want to work with a company where you actually have an agent who is responsible for their own book of business… you develop a relationship with that person, and they will often go to bat for you in a situation where you gave examples. If you have multiple lines of business (home, auto, life, umbrella) with them, it’s going to greatly work in your favor if/when you need to actually file a claim.

I was covering OHV, trailer, and my truck… some items stays with the primary carrier, things like ATV went with foremost insurance. In my current policy, I am covered comp, collision, and liability off-road.

You really need to work directly with an agent who has the ability to talk with underwiring to answer the types of question you are asking.

 

[Chris Walker]

I live in Georgia and we have plenty of fire roads and dirt roads that are maintained by the state. State maintained roads, regardless of physical make up (gravel/dirt/asphalt/concrete), are covered by insurance. There are many wrecks on dirt and fire roads and I've never heard of a case in which insurance hasnt covered an accident..

If you put one tire off of a stated/federal maintained road you probably arent getting coverage regardless of insurance provider, however....and I've seen a LOT of denied claims from ORV parkes and wheeling power lines..

 

[Bumbo]

If you want REAL off-road insurance... you need buy specialty coverage… which is also freaking expensive.

You just have to pay to play.

If you want “normal people” insurance, for a passenger vehicle, then it’s completely unreasonable to think a claim will be paid if you owned yourself, upside down in the middle of nowhere with a trashed truck needing to be recovered and paid for.