Giro's 92 V6 odds and ends

[giro]

A few things are coming due at the same time, and what better place to keep them sorted than a thread. I wouldn't call it a build right now since it's in pretty good shape and I'm not planning anything too extensive. More of a keep it running and in good shape, while fixing up some nagging issues and making it look a little better.

Heading up Tunnel Creek to help build the Snapdragon MTB trail with Tamba.org

I bought my '92 V6 4runner 11.5 years ago from the 2nd owner at 95k. He had the engine rebuilt at 77k from the v6 campaign. He kept good care of it, being a city car that didn't see much mileage, and going to the extreme of having a 2nd set of floor mats over the originals. Funny thing though, it's a V6 and I've never had any problems with unexpected acceleration.

(too good of a joke to pass, but truthfully, the V6 3.0 has never felt like too much of a slouch to me. From my test-drive onwards I expected it to be slower than my previous V6 and 4 cylinder pseudo sports cars of an Acura Legend and a couple Preludes. We're at 6700' now and drive up and over 8900')

It's at around 165k now, and we're only putting 3k/year on it now. Many to most 4runners it's age are at around 300k.

On to the details. So far, there really hasn't been much. I've replaced the starter, front brakes, front struts, cat when it was stolen, and muffler when it rusted out. Fan blade after it exploded, and a metal power steering return line when the fan shrapnel got it. Some other standard things like cap and rotor, and spark plugs. I've stitched up the driver's seat a couple times, and put on seat covers from Costco. The previous owner had a pair of grey t-shirts on the upper seats, and I left them there until putting on the new covers, so they are doing great. And then the back window relay cluster and back window motor.

I have a few things that are due now.

It's time for new tires, and instead of the BFG A/T's on stock 15" alloys that it's had for the last 100+k (3 sets), I bought a set of 17" 4runner rims. We live in snow country now where we average 300" of snow, and while I'm not off-road with it much, often the burliest tires also do best in snow and ice. I'm skipping the BFG's this time since they no longer have a mileage warranty (this last set only made it 25k towards it's 55k warranty), instead looking at 265/70 R17's on these new rims. The 2 I am looking at are the General Grabber AT 2 and the Bridgestone Dueler H/L Alenza Plus, with 60k and 80k mileage warranties respectively. And putting them on larger rims gives me the option of moving them to a newer 4runner or tacoma if I upgrade at some point. Both are rated about the same as my current BFG A/T's in snow and ice, with the Grabbers a little better on snow/ice, and the Dueler a little better at everything else, all according to Tire Rack's surveys. http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surve...ratio=70&diameter=17&tireSearch=true&filter=y http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surve...ratio=70&diameter=17&tireSearch=true&filter=y Based on the Grabber's specs, a 265/65 R17 would have 2.2% more revolutions per mile than my stock 31x10.5 R15's. The 265/70 R17's are going to be 6.2% less than stock. Conversely, 265/70 R16's are only off by .5%, but I went with the R17's to future proof the tires a bit. My R15's wouldn't fit on a '98 4runner due to larger brakes, and I'm worried that some newer 4runners and tacoma's need the R17's too. I also added a few comments at http://www.toyota-4runner.org/gener...-01-sr5-dont-know-what-buy-2.html#post2140675

Next up, and a small one, attacking tailpipe rust. With all the short trips in the cold, more moisture is coming out the tailpipe and rusting it from the inside. It will likely need replacement at some point, but until then I'm going to try to slow it down with some zinc laden paint, and/or some high temp rust stopping paint.
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/classic-t4rs/206899-stopping-tailpipe-rust.html
Shop Rust-Oleum 20-oz Silver Spray Paint at Lowes.com

The light is out behind the heater controller. Nothing too crazy.
4th gen http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-g...lbs-radio-dash-ac-controls-pics-included.html

The hood has some pimples from the plastic fan blade exploding. They've been touched up, and the biggest two need some more work to make them smaller. If I was really going all out, I could wrap the hood in carbon fiber, really or more likely vinyl. But I doubt I'll go there.

The upper dashboard is cracked. 11 years ago, it was just one crack. In the last year it got worse, and now there's 4. With no airbags to worry about, there's lots of choices. It looks like to fix the cracks, either ABS Cement or epoxy would work. Then I could paint the whole thing. But even better it to wrap it in a new coat of vinyl. One could attempt to color match it. But there's also carbon fiber vinyl now for cheap (make sure to get UV resistant), and I'm thinking that could look good here. And if it doesn't, I can pull that up and wrap it with a vinyl that looks closer to stock. Here's a bunch of related links:

With ABS Cement:
repairing the famous dash crack - YotaTech Forums
Plastics repair with ABS cement - Ninja250Wiki

New vinyl on 4th gen, though covering airbag: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/128396-my-dash-cracked-no-more-my-recovering-project.html
Carbon Fiber Vinyl: 80" X 60" 3D Black Carbon Fiber Vinyl Car Wrap Sheet Roll Film Sticker Decal - Rakuten.com
http://www.amazon.com/SimCarbon-Carbon-Fiber-Vinyl-BLACK/dp/B0059XCVVO
http://www.amazon.com/3M-Scotchprint-Carbon-Fiber-Vinyl/dp/B0058DIDTY
Maybe too cheap http://www.amazon.com/Black-Carbon-Fiber-Twill-Weave/dp/B006IC6OJ0/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top?ie=UTF8

It's about time for the timing belt again, and a kill switch might be fun. The fancy Platinum spark plugs are having their screw on tips come off, so it's time to go back to standard copper's. And it might be time for the cap/rotor, and wires. Ahhh, and I don't think the O2 sensor has ever been replaced. I'd like to add some extra LED exterior lights or the traditional fog lights I already have from HF from a few years back, though will probably never install the HF air horn I bought 8 years ago. So there's a few thing on the docket, even if we generally just keep in town with it and are only putting 3k on it a year.

So there's more than enough to keep me busy for a while, even without any major modifications or every any major issues to fix. Just mostly general maintenance on a nearly 25 year old vehicle.

 

[Chuckles89]

Looks like a solid list of things to do!

I think the dash would be good with some epoxy and the vinyl wrap. I would either do the carbon or just the stock color.

The rustoleum galvanizing stuff looks like a good product. Hopefully, it'll hold up the the heat. The rustoleum high temperature grill paint has been okay on my stock tailpipe, but even in the summer in the south, it rusts over in several months.

 

[giro]

How about some pictures!

Glamor pic

We get a bit of snow in the winter months....opps, this was my '98. That front driver's light is askew (PO hit a deer), and it's a different NV plate.

Hood damage

Cracked dash

My new rims (on a random 4runner at the Library), though I like the whole rig...they're 265/65 R17's

 

[giro]

Been a couple years, all with nearly nothing done except for a synthetic oil change at 5k, so ~1.5 years. 173k or so now, and it's time for that timing belt. When I was under the truck to lube up those steering stop points, one of the belts (PS or AC) didn't look so good, with a chunk missing.

I wish I went with the general grabber tires instead of the more highway ones. They do ok, but they aren't quite as good in certain snow conditions. Last year we had a 150% snow year (so around 450 inches instead of 300?). But they did ok.

Something seems a little off though, especially in the 2k-3k rpm range. I'm thinking one cylinder isn't always firing. Previously I checked the plugs. I'll need to recheck them, but it's time for a new cap and rotor (it's been nearly 80k), so maybe it's that. Lately the engine has also been idling a little higher than normal, say 1.2k instead of 900, even when warmed up a bit. I'm guessing if one cylinder isn't firing right, the O2 sensor would try to adjust, and that could explain it. But checking the plugs and comparing their wear should give me an idea.

Time for the hoses. I checked the thermostat and radiator cap a few years ago (10k ago?), so they should be good. The radiator is doing ok. While there's been no problems, it could be good to replace the O2 sensor. The back window needs cleaning and silicone again, with winter coming and slow operation a day ago at close to freezing. And the hanger at the end of the tailpipe rusted out and broke maybe 2k ago.

So some work, but mainly replacing the belts, hoses/coolant, and cap/rotor, and then go from there.

If anyone has a good writeup link for the timing belt, pass it along.

I bought a decent HF impact wrench for the crankshaft pulley bolt, and have the FSM, but sometimes extra insight and pictures are helpful. I'm not planning on replacing the water pump and idlers, unless they need it....mainly because they were done 95k ago by the dealer under the recall, and it looks like I may have trouble getting everything in time. That may mean I'll need to do it again at some point, but we've only been putting 3k/year on it, so I'm not too worried.

 

[HanginInUtah]

Just because it's such a wonderful job, I'd do the whole timing kit including the water pump. True, you haven't had any issues. But I'm much more of a mind to do whatever is in my way when I get that far into a job. I'd look at radiator hoses and belts while I'm there, too. That's the way my brain works.

This is not applicable, but to illustrate... On newer engines with the serpentine belts, the manufactures recommend changing the belt and tensioner at the same time. A lot of people look at the tensioner and ask why, if it looks tight? The problem is that the spring, which is very difficult to see, is wearing down just like the belt does, so a new belt with an old spring will most probably result in a belt squealing. Then you get to do the job again.

Your idlers have bearings that wear, and the water pump has a bearing (I believe) that wears. It may give you another year at your rate of driving, but while you're already there with the whole front of the engine off, it's just easier to do it at the same time.

Of course, if you take my advice, and then the new (insert water pump or idler here) fails prematurely, I'm going to hear about it...

 

[giro]

Just because it's such a wonderful job, I'd do the whole timing kit including the water pump. True, you haven't had any issues. But I'm much more of a mind to do whatever is in my way when I get that far into a job. I'd look at radiator hoses and belts while I'm there, too. That's the way my brain works.

I'm definitely planning on all the belts, and at least the upper hose which is much softer, and the tensioner spring. It's more a thing of getting the two idler pulleys on time, since I was going to try to do it this week before my wife took it on a 1500 mile trip. Now it looks like I am waiting a couple weeks more, so I should have time.

In the FSM, they say to just check the idlers, and don't even mention the water pump. Of course they also give over a page on checking the timing belt, whereas if you're to that point I'd sure expect you would replace the belt.

We'll see. I've never done the job myself, and when I've paid people to do it on other cars I've always had them replace the water pump. I don't remember the idlers, but it's been a while.

Thanks for the advice. I know the standard safe response is always "do it all", and I may very well do that since I'd have to preorder the parts and couldn't test the bearings in the idlers and water pump until well into the job. But there's also plenty of people that don't and haven't had problems....just like there's plenty of people that don't do the timing belt, until it's too late.

Looks like I also have a small leak of something on the passenger side of the engine, where the hanger is coming off to support the transition from metal to tubing on the brake line. Before I back-traced that I was worried it was coming down from the engine, but it seems to be a brownish liquid with no smell, so I'm thinking it's brake fluid instead of motor oil. The levels are steady, and I've never had a drip on the ground of anything, so this is just something to keep on top of. I'm betting the hose is going out, with the hose to metal line connection just barely seeping some fluid.

 

[Bones84]

Help

That's a very nice 4Runner you have there. I have a 94 3.0 as well. I just replaced the entire exhaust system because it was rusted out it came from Colorado. I replaced the manifolds with a set of headers and had a Flowmaster muffler put on. Well ever since I get a poping sound in the exhaust when I'm in 3rd 4th and 5th gear accelerating hard. If I easily push the pedal down it doesn't happen. I replaced plugs, wires, cap, rotor before the exhaust system was replaced and I never noticed the poping until it was replaced. I'm at a loss here. Any help would be great.

 

[GSCReno]

Sorry for hijacking Guys, but I was admiring giro's beautiful rig and thought I'd jump in since we're both in northern Nevada... Bought my first 4Runner two weeks ago, and it also has one weak cylinder. It's a 1990 two door with the 3.0 engine. Is the one weak cylinder issue common? I apologize again for butting in here, but for some reason I'm not able to post a new thread in the introduction section. Thanks, Scott

 

[giro]

3-in-1 reply, after being gone for a few days and thinking a bit.

Now I remember that I had considered not replacing the water pump and pulleys partly because I wasn't finding an AISIN kit. And on one of the reviews for a Gates kit for the Sienna, which I am also replacing, someone had trouble with their new water pump after just a few months. I had always thought the Gates ones were a close second to AISIN. But now that I had time, I'll probably just have everything on hand, and then see how the bearings feel on those things. As it's been said, you're already in there, and it's relatively easy to replace a few extra things at that point.

On the popping, one thing to check is that all of the hangers are being used, supporting the exhaust. And that all connections are tight. On mine, when they replaced the muffler, he asked and I allowed him to weld it to the CAT. That got rid of a connection that could leak, but also got rid of an easy connection for the future. And I just had the hanger right at the tail pipe rust out in the last year, so that's not supported as well as it should be. All that could cause more or different noise. But, I had a similar 4runner down the street, and another older Tacoma, and all 3 sound the same when nearby. And that's with an aftermarket CAT and muffler on mine.

I'm no expert, but isn't a pop or backfire when fuel gets through the engine and ignites in the hot CAT? The manual (EM-81 in mine) lists lots of options, but Fuel Cut System, EGR System, and Valve Timing are the top ones listed.

Congrats on the 2-door. Those are pretty rare. The V-6's had head gasket issues, and I guess that could lead to a weak cylinder. I think the party line is that the whole V6 is weak, hence the Vslow stuff. I didn't think there were lots of people having trouble with one cylinder being weak, but I guess I hadn't looked into it too much either.

We'll see how things go. My wife is just getting back from taking it to Portland and back, headed through the snow on Mt Rose right now. I don't know how much longer it is going to be able to stay as one of our vehicles, but I've enjoyed the 14 years I've had it so far.

 

[giro]

4-runner is doing ok. Now at 175k, after my wife took it on a road trip up to Portland and back. She complained of it being noisy, and sure enough the muffler is rusted out. I had a new one put in 5 years ago, but with lots of short trips, it's just rusting out from the inside...and it looks like I went with the cheap one last time, so there's no lifetime warranty like there is on the cat. I let the muffler guy weld in the current one, so it doesn't still have the easy to replace joints on it. With my tailpipe rusting a bit too, I think I should at least take a look at the inventory at the local pick-n-pull to see if there is a good donor. I added a few spot welds and screws, so at least the muffler is a little quieter and not rattling....so it can wait a few weeks while more important things get done.

In wondering about a little less power and it feeling a little strange at just before 3k RPM, I opened up the distributor and took a look. It's worn, but still working. Then with it running I pulled each wire one by one, and all affected the engine....so all are firing. A good thing....but not making it simple to hunt down an issue.

On the downside, I saw some grease under the 4runner today and crawled under. On the Sienna we have a noise, and we were worried it might be the CV joints or the bearings, but it looks to just be the brake pads (not the normal indicator sound, instead only a little noise when backing out and turning...but it looks like it's the inside pad's retaining clip just barely touching, at 35k on the pads so it's time for a change).

But, it looks like both outer boots on the 4runner's CV boots are leaking lots of grease, and have a crack.

I drive the 4runner so little. The steps in the FSM don't look too hard....a little easier than the Sienna. But I'm wondering if there's a temporary solution of shooting some more grease in, and then patching the boot somehow, maybe with rubber cement, some other glue, or even a soldering iron. I've fixed some other things that way, but with this being a flexible part I'm not so sure. 15 years ago with an Acura, it was nearly the same price to have someone put new boots on it as it was to have them just put new half-axles.

Always things to do.

 

[HanginInUtah]

I've replaced CV axles on both of my projects, and it's not a terrible job, but does take a little work. I do not remember what the FSM says, but I found removing the caliper, removing the sway bar end link, and separating the upper ball joint from the hub gives a pretty good amount of room to get them in and out. I was even able to get an impact on the nuts to loosen them.

The best way to prevent premature CV axle and boot wear/tear is to throw on some manual hubs. That way you can 'unlock' the axle and they won't be turning all the time. I did that to my last project, and it's on my list of to-do's on this one. I'm not sure I'm going all the way to remove ADD components, just allow the wheels to be free from the CV axles.

 

[giro]

I've replaced CV axles on both of my projects, and it's not a terrible job, but does take a little work. I do not remember what the FSM says, but I found removing the caliper, removing the sway bar end link, and separating the upper ball joint from the hub gives a pretty good amount of room to get them in and out. I was even able to get an impact on the nuts to loosen them.

The best way to prevent premature CV axle and boot wear/tear is to throw on some manual hubs. That way you can 'unlock' the axle and they won't be turning all the time. I did that to my last project, and it's on my list of to-do's on this one. I'm not sure I'm going all the way to remove ADD components, just allow the wheels to be free from the CV axles.

Thanks for the info. I do have an impact gun now, in preparation for doing the timing belt.

I'm pretty sure these CV's are the originals. 26.5 years, and 175k...I wouldn't call that premature. But it was something I was happy to avoid.

 

[giro]

I'm pretty sure these CV's are the originals. 26.5 years, and 175k...I wouldn't call that premature. But it was something I was happy to avoid.

Replaced both CV Axles in the last month or 2. An easy-ish job, taking maybe 6 hours to do the first one, and 1-2 for the 2nd. All about gathering up everything, setting up everything just right, and getting it done.

For tips and tricks, park as flat as possible (at first I was on a side slope, which is pretty ugly and dangerous when dealing with jacks and stands), and only try to take off the nuts, not the studs (opps). If the wheel is in the air you can move the wheel around to get to all 6 nuts in one setting, and the wheel gives enough leverage to get that 66 ft/lbs to tighten them up later. With the truck up some you have more room for a longer wrench or even breaker bar. Following the FSM, I took off the stabilizer bar (not under pressure when down on it's wheels) to give enough room to fit the CV axle through, but I didn't follow step 5 of removing the mounting bolt to the front diff...though maybe that would have made it even easier.

The wheel flange (with ADD) was tough to get back on at first, but though on the studs right it was off just a little from the splines until the axle was turned just a touch.

Fun stuff, though it would have been a lot easier/quicker if I set it up on a flat surface to start with, and didn't try to undo the seated studs.

Next on the list is the O2 sensor, and then the timing belt, other belts/hoses, and fresh antifreeze. And it looks like the slow seepage and mess I see near the passenger side of the engine is the flex to metal hose connection for the clutch, which is much better than most of the alternatives since the amount is so little. I just topped off the level, bringing it from the low to the high mark. I'm not sure I've ever added fluid to that, as it took me a while to even figure out what the tiny reservoir next to the brake fluid reservoir was.

And a crazy thing. Looking in the peephole on the brake drums, there's still 2-3mm of brake (new is 6mm, replace level is 1mm, from FSM). I have never replaced these, and the previous owner gave me a set of Toyota ones.

 

[giro]

One more thing that has started bugging a little.

All the time that I've owned it, it's been a little troublesome going into reverse. Normally you just have to let the clutch out and put it in again, and then you could get into reverse fine. In just toping off the clutch reservoir, I half wondered if this would fix it, but it didn't.

In the last 3-5k, I've occasionally had the truck pop out of 4th gear when I let up on the gas. I don't know if I just haven't put it all the way in gear or what.

But I just came across 1990silverbullet's thread at https://www.toyota-4runner.org/2929853-post33.html about putting in a new shifter seat and cap. Maybe that will help one or both problems? I might have to pull off the shifter boot and have a look.

That would be amazing if it fixes both things, but if not, any ideas what the problem is?

 

[stomper4x4]

Your on the right track with the shifting issue. The two most common problems with shifting in these is the plastic shifter bushings, and the clutch petal bracket cracking and then flexing too much, not allowing enough travel to shift properly. Mine went out pretty fast. Some guys report a bit of trouble getting it into gear.
Look under your dash at the bracket the clutch petal is attached to. Look at the top of that bracket and and check for a crack.

I've been going through my 92 also recently. All new fluids front to rear. New pitman and idler arm since those bushings were worn out. I also just had a gut feeling it was time to have a 27 year old radiator checked out. I pulled it and took it to my radiator shop. There were a few pinhole leaks and when they went to fix it, the copper just spiderwebbed. It was not far from just going out. I got a new 3 core copper radiator and installed that. And a new rad cap just for good measure.

Anyway, have fun! It's satisfying keeping these old things going.

 

[giro]

Read a few more things...I'm pretty sure it's the shift lever seat and cap. There's aftermarket ones, including from Marlin (Heavy Duty Seats | Marlin Crawler, Inc.) for currently about $33 shipped, though it sounds like the Toyota Dealer should have stock ones in stock for less.

The Yotatech post (5speed pops out of gear HELP - YotaTech Forums) had some info, along with links to these guides (Toyota Tacoma Manual Transmission Pop Out of Gear? Here's the Simple Fix!: 4 Steps) (Shifter)

It's a 20 minute job. Just trying to keep all the info together.

(Edit: toyota part 33505-35020 for the shift seat, a smaller dealer (Carson City) didn't have it in stock, but Reno did. Both the same price at $14.83, but instead of making the 45 minute drive I got it for $13.71 off of Amazon, tomorrow. I already took it apart and cleaned up the green shredded pieces the best I could. The bushing I have looks fine, so I am just getting the OEM seat.)

 

[giro]

The shift lever seat (green rubber) fixed it from popping out of gear. The end bushing (white) was in great shape, so I didn't do a thing with that part.

The gasket just before the cat was never right, at least since replacing the muffler and possibly before. A $3 part, and now the truck is amazingly quiet.

Replaced the O2 sensor. Between this and the gasket, it's quieter and even smoother. Hard to say if gas mileage changed much...I just went a month and a half on the last tank...270 miles. Short trips always are tough on the mileage.

The last 100 miles or so there's been a faint sound, like the brake indicators just starting. I went down to AutoZone today and picked up a pair of Duralast Ceramic Brake Pads MKD611. I've had some of the Duralast Gold's on the Sienna, and not only are they good, but AutoZone has a lifetime replacement on them...including for wear. So, you drive 35k or so, are happy with them but wear them out, and you just go back and buy another pair, returning the old ones once you do the installation. I swore I must have been talking to a newbie when the guy up-sold me on them 5 year ago or whatever, but when I was back in a store a few years later I brought it up. They do it. Strange for the case of brake pads, but most other parts have a much longer cycle.

Anyways, I bought the cheap ones today, and once back home (30 miles away) I went to replace them, and something wasn't right. First I didn't realize the pad sides (inner vs outer) weren't identical, so that's on me. But once right, it still wasn't. In the end, it turns out the pads extend past where they should, since the base is ~2" instead of 2 1/8" wide. So once you put the pin in, the pads are in the wrong place, extending onto the edge and beyond of the rotor. I called auto zone back, hoping this set was just in the wrong box, and the same number was painted on another set. When I make it down, I'll inspect the set, and maybe up to the Gold ones.

FWIW, Oreilys no longer has brake pads for my '92 4runner. I went ahead and bent the indicators just a little on both sides, and now there's no noise, so the brake pad indicators are the culprit. And in doing the 2nd side, I can do this pretty fast now and know what I need. I'll be one of those guys fixing my car in their parking lot, though for me it will be to make sure I get the right pads.

Nothing else at the moment. Timing belt is on hold until I have time, after the kids are back in school. I was about to do an oil change, but it's only been 4500M and 14 months since my last one. I use full synthetic these days, normally 0W-30, though it looks like I used high mileage 5W-30 last time. And I am finally getting a little paint oxidization above the windshield after not keeping up with the wax last year. The sun is tough on it here, and it's been parked outside 10+ years of our 12 up here in Tahoe. I just dropped the 70' pine I parked near, which means no more sap or risk of pine cones, but a little less sun protections to boot. If I have the time this fall I might need to explore some 2K clear coat. The new peelable rustoleum is tempting, but it says not to leave it on more than 3 months. I did always talk about having a white top for sun heat minimization, like the FJ's did. But in general my paint is in such great shape that it would be rough to change that permanently with white paint. The peelable might be good to test out, and possibly some salt/grit protection on the lower sections in the winter.

On to brake pad replacement, take 2.

EDIT: Always fun to see what Pick-n-pull has, even while looking for other vehicles. Between Reno/Sparks and Carson City, there were 15 2nd gens. For those that still had a control panel, the most mileage was 341k, with most in the 260-325k range. Tough to find any parts I need off of vehicles with so many more miles, but it's still fun to look when I head there every 6 months or so.

Oh, and in NV I could get classic car plates for it since it's 25+ years old (20+ for others), if I wanted. I think the DMV said there are 8 '92 4runners with them. For the initial plate cost plus $10/year, you get the plate and no longer have to do a smog test. For better or worse. It's an important thing, but even in CA you dropped off the testing at some point. But while we have plenty of regulations here in Tahoe, we don't have smog tests since it's so dispersed, not an urban area. Anyways, I might just have to get some classic plates for my old 4runner.