bofa
New member
I found this to be an interesting read...
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/global-cooling-real-inconvenient-truth-140500879.html
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/global-cooling-real-inconvenient-truth-140500879.html
Global Cooling - The REAL Inconvenient Truth
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MtnT4R
New member
I'm down for another mini ice age. The skiing will be epic!
I never really believed the whole global warming hype, but it definitely had a big impact on making a lot of industries clean up their act and increasing public awareness to be more responsible and less wasteful. That's a great thing in my book.
I never really believed the whole global warming hype, but it definitely had a big impact on making a lot of industries clean up their act and increasing public awareness to be more responsible and less wasteful. That's a great thing in my book.
Kmvreter
New member
Can you post the citation for the source of the graph?
My take on the debate: Keep in mind that we are between ice ages.
I'm all for cleaning up our act but it is at the expense of industry and jobs (look at the environment in China and India where the jobs went.) Rant over...
Millerad1651
New member
I'm no where near an expert on this, but I read an interesting article a year or two ago. Global warming doesn't necessarily cause it to get hotter and hotter each year, it causes an erradic environment. Snowing where it shouldn't, unusually hot summers and severely cold winters, and just non normal weather patterns in general. Which seems to be happening the past couple years.
RandyDaytona
New member
Exactly. It's not quite as simple as saying "look, it's snowing over here, so 'global warming' must be a load of bunk..."
Weather is changing everywhere. It's April 4th and I have 10" of snow to plow out of my driveway. We had the coldest winter in recent memory here, with people actually ice fishing on Lake Superior (normally doesn't freeze). I'm sure others can chime in with similar weather oddities from around the country.
At this point, whether we want to call it "warming," "cooling," whatever, I think we need to at least address it and stop using it as a political football.
1engineer
Moderator
Here's the biggest problem of all:
Data, any data can be presented in every way possible. Ex: It was a warm 70 degrees yesterday! -or- It was only 70 degrees yesterday. Both are true but one implies hot and the other cool! Numbers and graphs are no different because this is done all the time in every single industry and government and college all over the world. I have to hand it to JD because no matter what he or I present as fact the other can present an opposing view. What is the truth? Good luck finding it.
You want the truth? About anything? You had better be educated about the subject then because if you depend on "experts" you will only get their version lol.
There are honest, truthful people out there on both sides of this debate but they are not the majority. Some distort the data to keep their funding alive. Some on the other side are just shills for some special interest. If you throw both of these groups out you are left with very few on either side that are truthful. It's up to you to decide what the truth actually is and right now the warmists (including many government agencies and universities and newspapers) are doing a much better job than the skeptic's side. They have presented their data (Gore, Mann, etc) in such a way to convince us regular people that the temperatures are going to rise so much so fast that there will be nothing to eat, drought will be rampant and the seas will rise and flood all the coasts and islands.
Well guess what:
It has already done that. Several times in fact. Those of you in Utah or Arizona can still find seashells. Me here in the Appalachians can find evidence of glaciers that were once here. Places like Florida and Louisiana were under water.
...and this was all before man even lit his first campfire.
So why do many on both sides not tell the truth? I wish I knew. I wish we had access to the actual physical data that was uncorrected. I wish there was a real debate with scientists that had nothing to gain either with notoriety or money and they came to a decision. Bottom line though is that every single group on the warmist side is funded by someone or the government. I wish the 100's of computer models that have been created were correct but none have. If this debate happened I would believe the outcome either way without question. Except this will never happen. Why? The Warmists say the science is settled. They say consensus has been reached. First of all, if the science is settled then why are there people like me and hundreds of really smart real scientists who say they are wrong? They will liken it to "People who thought the earth was flat" back in the old days and that's just not true.
Here's a good rule that everyone should live by: Something is only true until proven otherwise.
Here is the real problem I have: The earth is getting warmer. I believe this to be a true statement. I believe we are not at the top of our temperature cycle from the last cold phase. Do I think mankind caused it with pollution? Maybe a tiny fraction but in the greater scheme of things not enough to matter one whit. I also agree we need to be better stewards of this planet and take care of it too but not by having silly stupid utterances from politicians spewing doom and gloom. Anyway back to the problem: What are we going to do to stop the globe from getting warmer? Do we have some magic machine? What would be the right temperature? Who would you trust to be in charge?
The answer is, we can't do a thing. We can stop every single thing we do right now (go back to pre biblical living) that is bad for the environment and guess what: The globe is going to go on heating up and cooling off exactly as it has done for millions of years and we can't do a thing about it with the technology we have today. The coastline we currently enjoy will be changed in a few hundred years whether we burn coal or not. Can you imagine if we go back to sailing ships, riding bicycles instead of cars, no trains or trucks? No electricity except solar, wind and hydro power? Good luck with that. Yes, we need to clean up the environment but please, quit with the doom and gloom outright lies about climate change from either side.
Here is a temperature chart that I believe to be as close to real as it gets. The temperatures are on top and the CO2 emissions are on the bottom.
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jgue467
Senior Member
Just flippant
I don't take this topic seriously, hence my original title - I was poking fun at the topic. Like Tolstoy said, "...in the very long run nothing really matters..." or as I say, "burn baby burn!" or at least until someone on this forum figures out how to make 4rnr run on electric for real cheap!! :banana:
I don't take this topic seriously, hence my original title - I was poking fun at the topic. Like Tolstoy said, "...in the very long run nothing really matters..." or as I say, "burn baby burn!" or at least until someone on this forum figures out how to make 4rnr run on electric for real cheap!! :banana:
BrianSD_42
New member
The permafrost is melting and the clock is ticking until all that methane is released. It may not be in my lifetime or yours but when it happens (and it is on track to happen) the world will change forever.
I don't have any links saved right now so here is a simple wiki explanation just to get you on the topic. If you are interested just look into it a bit. The thawing of the permafrost is the main thing I see right now that has the potential for a major die off of life.
Arctic methane release - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I don't have any links saved right now so here is a simple wiki explanation just to get you on the topic. If you are interested just look into it a bit. The thawing of the permafrost is the main thing I see right now that has the potential for a major die off of life.
Arctic methane release - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
1engineer
Moderator
So let's say everything is true with this. What do we do? I just posted a chart above that shows, for whatever reason, the earth has been much warmer in the past and regardless of what we do we can expect it to be warmer in the future. Sure, identifying possible issues like this is prudent and needed but let's be realistic: We can't do anything right now to change our climate from it's natural cycle. Again, we can go back to living like cave men with no pollution and the earth will still warm and cool just like it always had. I saw an interesting quote:
"If we could condense the lifetime of the earth into one year man would have arrived at 11:59 PM on December 31st." Think about that for a minute.
So while we need to understand more of course I think in reality all man can do is do our best to take care of the planet and get out of the way when an event like you list starts to happen. We don't need alarmism we need everyone working together to understand the problems and options.
1engineer
Moderator
The Best Explanation of Why
Here is a link to the abstract. The rest is behind a paywall so I can't get to it but read this please.
I have always wondered "If the climate has always changed and always will, why are these alarmist guys making such a big deal out of it now?" Sure man plays a tiny part but it's not the main driver in climate change. Anyway here is the link and possibly the reason they do what they do. Information Manipulation and Climate Agreements
Here is a link to the abstract. The rest is behind a paywall so I can't get to it but read this please.
I have always wondered "If the climate has always changed and always will, why are these alarmist guys making such a big deal out of it now?" Sure man plays a tiny part but it's not the main driver in climate change. Anyway here is the link and possibly the reason they do what they do. Information Manipulation and Climate Agreements
bofa
New member
But if you stop eating them, the population will grow. Double-meat for everyone! :bigok:
Whether or not you believe in global warming (or now "climate change", cause it fits better), here is a pretty funny bit by George Carlin.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BB0aFPXr4n4
Hey, I'm all for clean air and water, but for some arrogant people to think that the human race is going to destroy a planet that has been around for 4.6 billion years anytime soon are nuts. We will be long gone before the earth is. The human race is nothing more than a tiny "blip on the radar" when compared to the history of this planet. Lets stop stifling our economy based on "we must save the earth". That's all from me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BB0aFPXr4n4
Hey, I'm all for clean air and water, but for some arrogant people to think that the human race is going to destroy a planet that has been around for 4.6 billion years anytime soon are nuts. We will be long gone before the earth is. The human race is nothing more than a tiny "blip on the radar" when compared to the history of this planet. Lets stop stifling our economy based on "we must save the earth". That's all from me.
1engineer
Moderator
Nice chart! Who is determining what is accurate? That's the whole problem with this topic. I am giving up on this because one side (the warmists) spout nonsense and the skeptics aren't much better. After years of researching and reading both sides these are my conclusions:
The globe is getting warmer.
Man has caused a tiny fraction, maybe, in this latest warming trend.
The globe will warm and cool on it's own even if mankind is not here or doing anything.
Eventually the earth will get cooler.
Then the earth will get warmer.
Then cooler.
Then really warm.
Then cool.
Then really cold as our Sun burns out.
The end.
ndcent
New member
The "Union of Concerned Scientists" is their report here:
Cable News Coverage of Climate Science: Science or Spin? (2014) | Union of Concerned Scientists
But who knows, they're probably just in it for the billions of free dollars in research grants they'll just turn around and blow on new wire rim glasses and birkenstocks.
Cable News Coverage of Climate Science: Science or Spin? (2014) | Union of Concerned Scientists
But who knows, they're probably just in it for the billions of free dollars in research grants they'll just turn around and blow on new wire rim glasses and birkenstocks.
