Group buy : DC power Engineering 270amp alternator
- Thread starter Okki
- Start date
J.F. Sebastian
New member
I'm in if the price is right. Those DCs are nice but overpriced IMHO.
lbaschi1
New member
I'm in for another group buy
4RExplorer
New member
It looks like the 270XP, with 190A at engine idle and 270A at highway speeds, will charge the battery a lot faster than solar or a battery-to-battery charger.
But is it too much charger for a LiFePO4 house battery? One LiFePO4 battery that I'm considering has a recommended charging current of 97.5A and an allowed maximum charge current of 195A.
But is it too much charger for a LiFePO4 house battery? One LiFePO4 battery that I'm considering has a recommended charging current of 97.5A and an allowed maximum charge current of 195A.
I think you are going to let the magic smoke out of that LiPO.
You are near 3X it's recommended level and 30% or so over it's max.
I didn't stay at a HIE and am not an EE but that does not sound like a good situation.
there are circuits known as "constant current" used for various low amp situations like tube or transistor control. Not sure if a high current device could be made or if it would be affordable or wise.
You are near 3X it's recommended level and 30% or so over it's max.
I didn't stay at a HIE and am not an EE but that does not sound like a good situation.
there are circuits known as "constant current" used for various low amp situations like tube or transistor control. Not sure if a high current device could be made or if it would be affordable or wise.
Friggin Idiot
Senior Member
Max output is 270A from the alternator, less the demands of the truck ~110A (see first page of thread for more info). So with 160A available for anything extra and charging the battery, you'll not have to worry about the 195A max limit. Although you should probably check to see which voltage that was based on.
Even with the 270A alternator installed I was only seeing 13.1-13.8v output. With the GM diode installed it's 13.8-14.2v. Both measured via OBD-II.
Maybe [MENTION=83083]rigtec[/MENTION] has a better idea?
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rigtec
New member
Hey Luke,
Everything that you've stated is "Spot-On"! The Alternator (270-XP) will ramp down as the demand is diminished; it won't develop it's full field output unless called for.
Measuring my own XP output from time-to-time will always show 14.01V at the center console cigarette lighter (Power-Point socket), but the current flow is what will diminish as the demand is satisfied, so no worries! 'Best to you',
rig
4RExplorer
New member
Thanks, it sounds like the amperage won't be a problem. How about the voltage? The recommended bulk charging voltage for the LiFePO4 is 14.6V, with float voltage at 13.4V. If the 270XP is at 14.01V or somewhere under 14.2V, would this create any issues?
nglayton
Senior Member
The way I understand it, the system will only 'draw' what in needs. It's not a constant "push" of 270 amps all the time. So swapping in the 270 amp alternator isn't going to harm anything. (and hasn't)
As I've mentioned before, I'm running a dual battery setup with a 31M and a 65M both Northstar batteries. I rarely see 14v+ charging on mine, a few times, yes, on really cold mornings, but within 5 minutes it drops down to 13.9 and just keeps dropping over my 20 minute commute until it's showing about 13.4 or 13.5.
I've been running it this way for about 17 months or so. It still starts every day no problem. It still starts after leaving in the airport parking for 10 days no problem. I recently had rotator cuff repair surgery and did not start it for over 3+ weeks. Guess what? She still cranked over like normal and fired right up.
Never once have I put any kind of charger on it to "top it off" like the internet forum experts say you need to do. The way I see it, the batteries have 3-4 year warranties. If normal usage like mine somehow ruins the battery, It's covered for 3-4 years, after 4 years...who's going to trust it anyway? When it gets to that point, I'll be looking at it and deciding if I want a new battery anyways and I'll be covered for another 3-4 years under warranty if I choose to replace it. If I don't replace it, well that's my gamble to take and certainly not a failure of the t4r or the 270-xp.
FYI, everything will fail eventually, it's just up to each of us to decide what level of failure we can handle for ourselves and our loved ones.
As I've mentioned before, I'm running a dual battery setup with a 31M and a 65M both Northstar batteries. I rarely see 14v+ charging on mine, a few times, yes, on really cold mornings, but within 5 minutes it drops down to 13.9 and just keeps dropping over my 20 minute commute until it's showing about 13.4 or 13.5.
I've been running it this way for about 17 months or so. It still starts every day no problem. It still starts after leaving in the airport parking for 10 days no problem. I recently had rotator cuff repair surgery and did not start it for over 3+ weeks. Guess what? She still cranked over like normal and fired right up.
Never once have I put any kind of charger on it to "top it off" like the internet forum experts say you need to do. The way I see it, the batteries have 3-4 year warranties. If normal usage like mine somehow ruins the battery, It's covered for 3-4 years, after 4 years...who's going to trust it anyway? When it gets to that point, I'll be looking at it and deciding if I want a new battery anyways and I'll be covered for another 3-4 years under warranty if I choose to replace it. If I don't replace it, well that's my gamble to take and certainly not a failure of the t4r or the 270-xp.
FYI, everything will fail eventually, it's just up to each of us to decide what level of failure we can handle for ourselves and our loved ones.
Xtremluck
New member
How are you planning to charge the LiFePO battery? From my understanding you'll need a separate charger as it can't take direct DC current.
4RExplorer
New member
I've been looking into this, and so far one suggestion I have gotten is to replace the stock alternator with a high-output alternator; connect that alternator via an external regulator (to control voltage and current coming into the LiFePO4) to charge the LiFePO4 battery. Then connect the LiFePO4 battery through a battery-to-battery charger (such as a Sterling Power product) to charge the starter battery.
Just replacing the stock alternator with a high output alternator would void the Toyota electrical warranty, so I will have to think about that.
There are 120V AC to 12V DC converters that can charge a battery from shore power, but I was hoping to find a solution that charges the LiFePO4 battery through a combination of alternator and solar.
rigtec
New member
Hi Ted,
I'm at a disadvantage here cause I'm unfamiliar with the 'LiFepo4 Battery'. But I do understand batteries, charging systems and the operating theory that allow them to work! I really don't see the issue that you're concerned about.
Now our 4Runners work on a 12vdc electrical system; battery stabilizes at 12.5vdc. The alternator in my new 4R peaked at about 13.5v; which I took issue about... only one volt above static(?)!
So I changed that! But The 14.12 that you read on the multi-meter is 100'th's of a volt, not 10'th's of a volt... if it were then anything over 14.9 would be 15.0(+)V! I think (just a guess) that there's a nominal range that ALL batteries have to work within, and LiFepo4 must adhere to certain principles or that system would have a hard time finding it's way into any successful favorability status!
If you have a problem with the nominal voltage output level from the XP Series, you can order one with an 'External Adjustable Voltage Regulator' that can be changed accordingly, but the company say's that it's not an add-on; it needs to be built with that feature wired from with-in, but that's your choice! hope this helps, 'Best to you',
rig
4RExplorer
New member
Rig,
LiFePO4 is lithium iron phosphate, attractive because they are lighter, more compact, have higher discharge each cycle (90% vs. 50% for lead acid), and have a lot more charge cycles than lead acid or AGM batteries. Their initial cost is much higher, but they are less expensive per Wh produced over the long run. A brand I am considering is Lithionics; another is BattleBorn (no affiliation with either). The manufacturers have recommended charge and discharge voltages and amperages.
The external regulator sounds like the way to go.
Ted
nglayton
Senior Member
Seriously? LiFePO4 is $949! (one brand) I think I'll put that in the same category as $150 battery trays. No thanks.
4RExplorer
New member
Yes, the initial price of LiFePO4 is very high. But look at the number of charge cycles compared to lead-acid. Typically a few thousand charge cycles for LiFePO4 compared to a few hundred for lead-acid. So during the lifespan of one LiFePO4 battery, you might need to replace a lead-acid battery several times. That is where the cost savings with buying LiFePO4 comes in. In the meantime, with LiFePO4 you get lighter battery weight, more compact space, deeper discharge, and other benefits.
But it depends on your situation - not everyone wants to keep a battery for that long.
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nglayton
Senior Member
In theory, I get it. I do. I see that it has a 10 year warranty. Nice...but how many of us keep rigs for 10 years? I know I do, but most people don't. This forum is littered with stories and people keeping their T4R's for 1-3 years max. Even the guys that spend $20k with serious mods are out in 5-6 years. It's not the truck they love, it's buying new stuff they love.
However.....As you mentioned everyone has different experiences with batteries. Not that anyone really cares, but let me just share mine. In 1999 I bought a brand new 4runner. After about 5-6 years the OEM battery failed, I went to Sears and bought a brand new Die hard platinum. It cost me about $200 and had a 4 year warranty. About 3.5 years later that failed and they replaced it for free. This started a cycle that I could never have guessed would work out in my favor, but it did. Approximately every 3.5 - 3.8 years those Diehard platinum batteries would fail like clockwork and every time Sears would replace it for free, thus starting a new 4 year warranty period. Their mistake was every time they installed a new battery under warranty they marked it as a new purchase EVERY TIME. (Now you know why they are now owned by Kmart and no longer Diehard platinums)
From 1999 until resent day I purchased exactly one battery for approx $200 and got 20 years out of it. SCORE!!!
Fast forward to 2011 when I bought a 2nd new 4Runner.......The OEM Panasonic battery is still, 8 years later working just fine. It's no longer in my 4runner (I upgraded to dual Northstars & XP-270) but the vehicle I moved it into is loving it. Starting daily with no issues in sight.
I guess it all about the pain we can handle. I can't handle pain in the wallet near as well as I can handle a battery swap/jump start at midnight in the rain.
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4RExplorer
New member
The last vehicle I bought (which was not a 4Runner) was almost ten years ago. Part of the reason I bought a 4Runner this time was its proven reliability. I expect it to last 20 years. It's expensive to buy up front, but not if I can get it to last 300,000 miles.
Great story on the batteries, especially the Sears. Whatever battery I get, I hope it lasts.
Great story on the batteries, especially the Sears. Whatever battery I get, I hope it lasts.
rigtec
New member
Hi 4RExplorer,
...not a lot of difference between .2 and .6 volts; even some volt meters will read 0.4 volts difference in measurement depending on ambient temp, humidity, analog or digital, and EMF in room!
rig, cheers
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People spend that much on fancy dual battery kits, a LiFePO4 battery makes more sense than CNC battery tray and pre-made cables
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