Group Buy on 1st Gen 4Runner Can-Back Soft Tops

[Charles4x4]

Hi, I am new to the 4Runner forums and just picked up a pristine ’87 4Runner SR5 Turbo from TX a week ago. We currently have 80 and 100 series land cruisers, but I wanted the 4Runner because it is light, nimble, and we can take the top off our kids.

After getting the new 4Runner, I started shopping for soft tops. I know Softopper and Killer Toy Tops make a great product, but I’ve always loved the look and quality of Can-Back and wanted to be able to support a roof rack. After researching, it looks like Can-Back is back in business, but our 1st Gen 4Runners are in the 2nd tier of vehicles they are designing. So this morning I called the new owner – Bryan Hibbetts – and started to investigate.

Good News – Bryan said that due to large demand for 2nd tier vehicle tops, they actually hired another designer to start focusing solely on these including our 1st Gen 4Runner which should be ready for initial shipment in June. I then asked Bryan about pricing – ours will be $2,300 for the top including the panel windows. This sounded steep, but Bryan said he would cut the pricing to $2,070 if we can get 10+ buyers via Group Buy.

If we have really strong demand, I’ll see if I can get him to cut a little more – maybe down to $2,000 even where the current Truck tops are priced. Now if this still sounds steep, it does to me too, but I know Can-Back is the best there is for a quality soft top and if I’m going to spend $1K+, I only want to buy the best top the first time. So, I’m putting my commitment and money in and would like to start a Group Buy. PM me if you are interested as well and I'll organize the group buy details with Can-Back for us.

Moderators, if this is not in the right place or I need to Edit the text, please let me know.

Group Buy on 1st Gen 4Runner Can-Back Soft Tops
Pricing: $2,070 (with a possibility I can get it down more)
Buyers Needed: 10+
Timing of initial shipments: June 2017
Organizer: Charles4x4 (me)
Can-Back Soft Top Details: Can-Back Canvas Camper Shell

Pictures Below (former product that will likely be mostly replicated and improved):

 

[85RedRunner]

That price is outrageous. Ask him how many it would take to get it less than $600...

 

[Charles4x4]

That price is outrageous. Ask him how many it would take to get it less than $600...

Believe me, I'd much rather spend $600 too. Evidently they have have sold enough Truck ones at $2K to justify hiring new FTEs, so buyers are out there.

For me, I'm fine paying 2x so long as the quality, durability, functionality, and look/feel is also 2x the competitors. From my experience with Can-Back of the past, I'd say it is and I'm glad we now have more soft top options. Still a hard check to write regardless, but I don't anticipate ever selling my 1st gen so buying right the first time is important.

 

[joeynational]

Thats more than i bought my truck for!! lol

 

[sam24th]

while I like that we have more soft top options, I dont think I could justify buying a canback when a softtopper is only a fraction of the cost. Looks good though. Goodluck with your groupbuy.

 

[Charles4x4]

I'm owner of one of those summer roof, honestly, it's very well made.
You'll find a lot of people who want it, it's just my pointy of view.
Peace!

I know - it's a lot! Do you remember how much you paid for yours? As mentioned, I'm doing all I can to get the cost down. Sub $2K would be good.

Sadly, if they are selling $2K Truck soft tops without issue (albeit on $35-45K trucks), we have to show sufficient demand at a reasonable Can-Back profit level for them to spend their time on our 1st gens. Simply supply and demand unfortunately.

 

[89FourRunner]

I know you have your heart set on a can back, and I truly hope you find one, but by the time you find ten buyers at around two grand a top, that guy will be out of business again.

That is just too much.

Your 4Runner seems to be in amazing shape so maybe worth it.

 

[Charles4x4]

I know you have your heart set on a can back, and I truly hope you find one, but by the time you find ten buyers at around two grand a top, that guy will be out of business again.

That is just too much.

Your 4Runner seems to be in amazing shape so maybe worth it.

Thanks - just would like all of us to have some more options. If nothing else, I can take this feedback to them and challenge them to find ways to reduce pricing. Unfortunately if this is the feedback he's getting across the board from 1st gen owners, they may stick to truck tops instead.

 

[Charles4x4]

while I like that we have more soft top options, I dont think I could justify buying a canback when a softtopper is only a fraction of the cost. Looks good though. Goodluck with your groupbuy.

Understood. A Softopper just won't work for me and my intended uses - and hopefully others, but maybe I'm the only one. Time will tell.

Given how many used to buy from Can-Back, I would have thought they would have had more avid fans on these boards. Anyone know how much they used to charge for the old version? I would have guessed it would have been north of $1K, but maybe I'm way off.

 

[Charles4x4]

Feedback from Can-Back (v2)

Well, considering all the feedback on price, I called Bryan and asked him how this business model is going to work for them. Here was his direct feedback:

Who is your target buyer:
1) If buyers want the most affordable top on the market, they should buy a Softopper.
2) If buyers want the best product on the market, they should buy a Can-Back. Our buyers have pride in their 4Runner and only want the best products even if our business model excludes the value based buyer portion of the soft top market.

Why is it the best and how do you justify the price:
1) Original tops sold well at $1,200 a top. With inflation at 3% per year, that is $1,600 today. Instead of cutting value from our original tops, we found ways to make them even better and added more cost into them. And they added Zip Off sides if buyers don't want to roll them up.
2) They used Vortex Threads (which are 3x the quality & price of regular threads at $60-100 per spool)
3) They use high grade Stainless Steel frames
4) They use Sunbrella Sea Mark fabric ($30/yard)
5) They use Strata Glass Vinyl for the 3 Side and Rear Windows (from high end yachts)


(I'm not an expert on soft top materials or design, so maybe others can explain #2-5 above further)

They tested the old tops and found that seams would begin to fail at 10 yrs, so the upgrades above should increase the life of the top to 20 or 25+ yrs, increase durability, and be the best top period that looks great 10 or 20 yrs down the line.

He was very candid - if your fellow members want an affordable top they should buy a Softopper. If they want the best, the will spend more and buy a Can-Back. He said they could have produced a $800 or $1,200 top, but it wouldn't have been up to Can-Back standards.

I'm not pushing a Can-Back - this is objective feedback that I'm simply passing along. I've got a pristine 4Runner that I plan to invest a lot in and I want the best product, so I'm willing to spend $2K to get a Can-Back that I only have to buy once.

I still think if we get enough members involved, I can get the price down more. Keep the feedback coming (positive or negative) and I hope the helps.

 

[Charles4x4]

If you badly want it and $2,170 is a reasonable price for you, just add $130 and you have the $2,300 they ask (the 2x you said before), no need of group buy.
Just saying in case you don't get 10 buyers.

Agreed. And I fixed my error in the first post - it'd be $2,070 (not $2,170). If they can have them ready in June, I plan on buying one as a group or solo. I just don't like the look, feel, and functionality limitations of the other options.

But I'm probably a unique buyer who usually wants the best for his vehicles, like Slee Offroad products for my '96 80 Series. My rear bumper with ladder and tire carrier was over $2K. Or the 4x4 Labs rear bumper I plan to get for my 4Runner at $1,600. Can-back is right in line with other quality vendors - sometimes you get what you pay for - but sometimes you don't.

Given how many purchased the original Can-Back for $1,200 back in the mid-2000's, I'm guessing there are quite a few others like me out there but we'll see.

 

[sam24th]

I have actually had an original soft top from Can-back for my toyota pickup up until about a month ago when I sold it. I remember when they were in business the tops went for $1200, but like you said that was awhile back and a different owner. One thing I would like to see added to a top design is removable sides like a jeep. I know KTT has removable sides but im not a huge fan of using the rear glass window with my soft top. Still dont think that justifies the 2k price tag, but thats my 2 cents. Oh and heres a picture of my old pickup with the original can-back.

 

[Charles4x4]

I have actually had an original soft top from Can-back for my toyota pickup up until about a month ago when I sold it. I remember when they were in business the tops went for $1200, but like you said that was awhile back and a different owner. One thing I would like to see added to a top design is removable sides like a jeep. I know KTT has removable sides but im not a huge fan of using the rear glass window with my soft top. Still dont think that justifies the 2k price tag, but thats my 2 cents. Oh and heres a picture of my old pickup with the original can-back

Nice looking 4Runner. And I agree - and I forgot to mention that this time around they are adding zip off sides so you can zip or roll up the sides (like with KTT). But you don't need to use your rear glass as it comes with a rear panel.

Bryan said once everyone sees pictures of the new and improved product, you're going to love it.

 

[MtBuck]

Interesting. I'd like to see some detailed photographs of the product when they get it completed... but 2 grand... ouch!

 

[Charles4x4]

Interesting. I'd like to see some detailed photographs of the product when they get it completed... but 2 grand... ouch!

I think they'll closely resemble the older ones but with even higher quality materials. I'm guessing we'll have detailed pics next month.

I felt the same when I priced a 4x4 Land rear bumper with tire carrier, but I guess high quality comes with a matching price tag.

 

[85RedRunner]

If I already had my truck linked with built tons and a 3.4... I probably consider as a last option (boredom) and just want to spend some money... of course a stick would go through it my first time out

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

 

[Charles4x4]

I've got 2/10 buyers confirmed. Others?

 

[Volcom]

Love my OG Can-Back! I wouldn't pay $2000 for it though. I got this one for about $300.

 

[Charles4x4]

Love my OG Can-Back! I wouldn't pay $2000 for it though. I got this one for about $300.

Love it! Looks awesome. Wish I could find a used one in good condition for $300! That's a steal.

 

[Charles4x4]

A portion of anothrt good discussion:

From Coryc85 on iH8MUD:
"I've owned a Kayline soft top and now the Softopper, I guess I fall into the value shopper category. I love having a soft top, and the Softopper is pretty good, certainly much better than the Kayline. Some things I don't like about my Softopper:

1. Doesn't quite fit the rear corners as well as the Canback appears to, mine leaves a bit of an overhang that you can really just about fit your hand in. Softopper does give you a velcro strip that you can stick to your tailgate to hold down the flap and that might help, I did not use it. Hasn't been a huge enough issue for me to do something, but I don't like it.

2. The straps from rolling up the windows have scuffed the vinyl windows. This might happen to all tops I'm not sure, but still it bothers me.

Really those are the major things. Softopper windows can be ordered tinted, which I did, and you can get a screen panel in the rear instead of glass for sleeping in the truck. I have driven in the rain and the truck pretty much stays dry. It's like $900 shipped, so overall I'm happy with it.

I definitely think from the pictures the Canback looks like a better fit, and I guess being able to support a roof rack is nice (btw how much is the roof rack?). So given those things, I do think it is worth a premium and honestly if I didn't already have mine I'd be seriously considering the Canback. I appreciate you putting together the group buy and I'd love to see these come to market, I'm just not at a point to buy one right now."