stephenfry
New member
here is a synopsis so you don't have to read the full story below:
MY AXLE SEALS KEEP ON BREAKING ON BOTH SIDES RIGHT AFTER A TECHNICIAN SLAMMED BOTH DRUMS WITH A LARGE HAMMER FIFTEEN TIMES. ALSO EXPERIENCING RIDE QUALITY/SMOOTHNESS/FRICTION ISSUES/A LITTLE NOISE FROM BACK WHEELS SINCE HE DID THE BRAKE INSPECTION. I'M HOPING THE RIDE QUALITY/ACCELERATION/SMOOTHNESS ISSUES ARE JUST RELATED TO SOMETHING SMALL LIKE HE DIDN'T TIGHTEN THE LUGNUTS OR PUSH THE DRUMS ALL THE WAY IN, BUT I DOUBT STUFF LIKE THAT WOULD REPEATEDLY BREAK THE AXLE SEALS.
here is the full story with the symptoms. this is a cut and paste of an email i sent about it to someone.thanks for the response. i am going to try to touch all my bases and go to tOyota to have them check to see if the breather valve should be replaced cause if it is clogged causing the axle seals to break every 3k miles, and then i'll have them check the brakes in back to make sure they are not adjusted wrong making the car break all the time causing overheating of the brakes which breaks the seals too. any advice you can give would be appreciated. i could see how "tapping" the drums wouldn't cause anything. but this guy may have been using a metal hammer too and he cocked his arm back two feet or so and slammed on the drums like fifteen times,so i wonder if he damaged the axle or bent it or damaged the axle housing or the drums causing the seals to break three times in 5k miles?
here is the full story:
i bought the car from a reputable dealer in 2012. the dealer thoroughly inspected it and it had no accidents and original paint and no mechanical problems and it test drove like a dream. when it drove when i first bought it it drove smooth and without wheel friction or drag and very fast acceleration and probably very good gas mileage. the same day after i bought it i took it to pepboys and used a rewards card for a free brake inspection.
i stood in the store and watched as dante operated on the car. he took off the back wheels and then grabbed a hammer and struck each drum on each side very forcefully about fifteen times. right away i knew that was giong to be a problem. i sold acuras for three years andknow alot about cars and i know that the toyota service manual says there is only one factory authorized way to remove the drums if they are hard to take off by hand. dante cocked his arm back about two feet and very forcefully repeatedly struck the drums with the hammer. this was no mere "Tapping" of the drums. it is important to note that when i bought the car the axle seals were not leaking and the car was thoroughly inspected and service or "reconditioned" by the dealer. if the seals were leakingiwould have seen axle grease covering the alloy wheels making them black with gear oil/grease but the wheels were clean. dante todlme that the car was in perfect condition and had plenty of brake pad "meat" on both the rear and front brakes. later i learned from multiple sources that it is absolutely wrong to ever hammer the drums to get them apart. most of the time they simply lift off by hand, but if they are hard to get apart, a mechanic told me the factory toyota 4 runner service manual says there is only one proper way to remove the drum to inspect the shoes. that is that you put two screws or bolts into the holes that are on teh drum and you screw the bolts inwardly and then drums slides right out. the screws teh further you press them in, presses agaisnt the steel plate behind teh drum and as you screw them inward it forces teh seperation of the drums from teh steel plate behind teh drum which rotates the wheels. i also went to my local and told them what they did and they told me there was noneed to hammer teh drums because you just press the two screws in and the drum comes right off without having to damage the axles or bend the axles or mess up the placement of the gears in the rear differential pumpkin by hammerring the drums. and a mechanic of sorts online toldme about the facoty r authorized method of taking the drums off. dante probably had no idea what he was diong or didn't see the holes for teh screws. a mechanic online told me that the repeated for4cefulhammering of the brake dums probably caused the axle seals to break repeatedly by damaging either teh brakes or some other component. so mulitple mechanics have told me along with the factory service manual that what he did hammering the brakes was wrong.
so back to the story. i asked teh tech why he hammerred the drums so hard and he said he didn't know how to get the drums apart other than that way. so he didn't know about the screws. so i took teh car home and immediately upon leaving i noticed the car didn't drive teh same. the car drove with less acceleration oand the ride was noisy from teh back wheels and not smooth but seemed like there was some type of grinding in teh wheels or something. the gas mileage was probably affected too. then later on i noticed that the rear right passenger side alloy wheel was completely covered in axle grease. itook it to a mechanic and he said both axle seals were broken. he said the right one was leaking profusely and was completely busted while the left was broken and only leaking but a less rapid leak than the right one. he told me it had to be fixed or else the axle would soon run out of grease or oil and as soon as that happens the gears in teh differential or "pumkin" have no lubrication and it will total the car by stripping or ruining the gears in teh rear differential making the car totalled or undriveable. so i had it repaired. i always knew/suspected from teh moment he forcefully struck the car with a hammer fifteen times that the car had been damaged because it drove horribly, but i didn't know what to do about it. nevertheless i fixed the axle seal. then i drive the car for about 5 thousand miles, and i took it into carson toyota service department for a routine brake job on teh front pads and for a oil change and complete 5 thousand mile service. richard teh service advisor called me and told me that after inspecting the vehicle teh technician had noticed that both axle seals were again broken. when the axle seals break you have to completely replace the inner and outer seals along wihtputtingnew bearings, hubs, brake shoes and everyting because teh shoes are so contaminated with oil that is causes problems. the cost to replace the axleseals is 1000.00$ and the cost to replace the shoes, drums, bearings and hubs along wiht it is another rougly 1000.00$ acording to even pepboys it is rare that a axle seal ever needs to be repaled but when it does it usually happens about every ten years or hundred thousands miles or so. it rarely ever needs to be replaced because of breakage.
so basically after taking the car to them for a routine brake inspection and the damage done to the axle shaft. axles,axle housings,brakes,drums i have seen teh axle seals repeatedly break over and over. they have broken three times in just five thousand miles. and it is a 2000 $ job to replace them each time. the car dives horribly after teh hammering too. the acceleration is slower and teh gas milegae is or seems to be worse because there seems to be some drag or friction in teh rear wheels or axles. the axles may have been bent during the hammering or the axle housing may have been damaged. and the poor driving experience may be caused by the gears in the differential being slightly damaged. nevertheless the car went from being a perfect car worth thirteen thousand dollars to being a lemon car with axle seals that constatnly break right after being replaced costing thousands to fix it each time. the car can only be sold with teh disclosure that is is a lemon car and has damage done the the rear drivetrain and brakes and anyone test driving it could see it drives poorly wiht noise and friction in teh rear wheels. from my experience selling cars even with the extremeley low mileage of 95,000 miles, it could probably be sold now for maybe 4 thousand dollars. i bought teh car with 89,955 thousand miles on it, and i rarely drive it and when i do it's only for short trips so i put barely any miles on it. these 4runners are hard to find for purchase and if it were in teh condition i bought it in undamage it would probably be worth 11000 dollars because i have only put 5000 miles on it since buying it for the retail blue book for about 13000 $. pepboys turned this once perfect car into a lemon and lost me about seven thousand dollars in value. (11,000-4,000) the average price for a 4rfunner for sale on autotrader is about 10,000 but those have higher miles on them. teh average person drives 12k per year so a 2001 average car would have about 168,000 miles on it. it must be pointed out that this car when i bought was the best of teh best-cherry complete with service records and well maintained, and a clean title and clean carfax report with original pain all around meaning the car had never been repainted because of an accident. i have spent probably 300 dollars more in gas than i would have had teh aceleration and gas mileage not been affected by the inspection. i have had to drive teh car that is uncomfortable to drive with noise and friction and grinding and teh car that was once a joy and fun to drive is now chore to drive. if i keep the car history shows that about every three thousand miles the axle seals and bearing and hubs and drums and brakes will need to be replaced costing 2000 dollars each time. so if i keep it and drive it 100,000 more miles it would cost tens of thousands of dollars to repair and keep up without stripping the differential gears from lack of lubrication. i am not asking for tens of thousands of dollars. i don't know how anyone would ever buy this car from me though. i would have to disclose it is now damaged and has problems and currently needs repairs and will need more to be driven. my curernt advisor and mechanic said i shouldn't even be driving it until it is repaired at toyota.
MY AXLE SEALS KEEP ON BREAKING ON BOTH SIDES RIGHT AFTER A TECHNICIAN SLAMMED BOTH DRUMS WITH A LARGE HAMMER FIFTEEN TIMES. ALSO EXPERIENCING RIDE QUALITY/SMOOTHNESS/FRICTION ISSUES/A LITTLE NOISE FROM BACK WHEELS SINCE HE DID THE BRAKE INSPECTION. I'M HOPING THE RIDE QUALITY/ACCELERATION/SMOOTHNESS ISSUES ARE JUST RELATED TO SOMETHING SMALL LIKE HE DIDN'T TIGHTEN THE LUGNUTS OR PUSH THE DRUMS ALL THE WAY IN, BUT I DOUBT STUFF LIKE THAT WOULD REPEATEDLY BREAK THE AXLE SEALS.
here is the full story with the symptoms. this is a cut and paste of an email i sent about it to someone.thanks for the response. i am going to try to touch all my bases and go to tOyota to have them check to see if the breather valve should be replaced cause if it is clogged causing the axle seals to break every 3k miles, and then i'll have them check the brakes in back to make sure they are not adjusted wrong making the car break all the time causing overheating of the brakes which breaks the seals too. any advice you can give would be appreciated. i could see how "tapping" the drums wouldn't cause anything. but this guy may have been using a metal hammer too and he cocked his arm back two feet or so and slammed on the drums like fifteen times,so i wonder if he damaged the axle or bent it or damaged the axle housing or the drums causing the seals to break three times in 5k miles?
here is the full story:
i bought the car from a reputable dealer in 2012. the dealer thoroughly inspected it and it had no accidents and original paint and no mechanical problems and it test drove like a dream. when it drove when i first bought it it drove smooth and without wheel friction or drag and very fast acceleration and probably very good gas mileage. the same day after i bought it i took it to pepboys and used a rewards card for a free brake inspection.
i stood in the store and watched as dante operated on the car. he took off the back wheels and then grabbed a hammer and struck each drum on each side very forcefully about fifteen times. right away i knew that was giong to be a problem. i sold acuras for three years andknow alot about cars and i know that the toyota service manual says there is only one factory authorized way to remove the drums if they are hard to take off by hand. dante cocked his arm back about two feet and very forcefully repeatedly struck the drums with the hammer. this was no mere "Tapping" of the drums. it is important to note that when i bought the car the axle seals were not leaking and the car was thoroughly inspected and service or "reconditioned" by the dealer. if the seals were leakingiwould have seen axle grease covering the alloy wheels making them black with gear oil/grease but the wheels were clean. dante todlme that the car was in perfect condition and had plenty of brake pad "meat" on both the rear and front brakes. later i learned from multiple sources that it is absolutely wrong to ever hammer the drums to get them apart. most of the time they simply lift off by hand, but if they are hard to get apart, a mechanic told me the factory toyota 4 runner service manual says there is only one proper way to remove the drum to inspect the shoes. that is that you put two screws or bolts into the holes that are on teh drum and you screw the bolts inwardly and then drums slides right out. the screws teh further you press them in, presses agaisnt the steel plate behind teh drum and as you screw them inward it forces teh seperation of the drums from teh steel plate behind teh drum which rotates the wheels. i also went to my local and told them what they did and they told me there was noneed to hammer teh drums because you just press the two screws in and the drum comes right off without having to damage the axles or bend the axles or mess up the placement of the gears in the rear differential pumpkin by hammerring the drums. and a mechanic of sorts online toldme about the facoty r authorized method of taking the drums off. dante probably had no idea what he was diong or didn't see the holes for teh screws. a mechanic online told me that the repeated for4cefulhammering of the brake dums probably caused the axle seals to break repeatedly by damaging either teh brakes or some other component. so mulitple mechanics have told me along with the factory service manual that what he did hammering the brakes was wrong.
so back to the story. i asked teh tech why he hammerred the drums so hard and he said he didn't know how to get the drums apart other than that way. so he didn't know about the screws. so i took teh car home and immediately upon leaving i noticed the car didn't drive teh same. the car drove with less acceleration oand the ride was noisy from teh back wheels and not smooth but seemed like there was some type of grinding in teh wheels or something. the gas mileage was probably affected too. then later on i noticed that the rear right passenger side alloy wheel was completely covered in axle grease. itook it to a mechanic and he said both axle seals were broken. he said the right one was leaking profusely and was completely busted while the left was broken and only leaking but a less rapid leak than the right one. he told me it had to be fixed or else the axle would soon run out of grease or oil and as soon as that happens the gears in teh differential or "pumkin" have no lubrication and it will total the car by stripping or ruining the gears in teh rear differential making the car totalled or undriveable. so i had it repaired. i always knew/suspected from teh moment he forcefully struck the car with a hammer fifteen times that the car had been damaged because it drove horribly, but i didn't know what to do about it. nevertheless i fixed the axle seal. then i drive the car for about 5 thousand miles, and i took it into carson toyota service department for a routine brake job on teh front pads and for a oil change and complete 5 thousand mile service. richard teh service advisor called me and told me that after inspecting the vehicle teh technician had noticed that both axle seals were again broken. when the axle seals break you have to completely replace the inner and outer seals along wihtputtingnew bearings, hubs, brake shoes and everyting because teh shoes are so contaminated with oil that is causes problems. the cost to replace the axleseals is 1000.00$ and the cost to replace the shoes, drums, bearings and hubs along wiht it is another rougly 1000.00$ acording to even pepboys it is rare that a axle seal ever needs to be repaled but when it does it usually happens about every ten years or hundred thousands miles or so. it rarely ever needs to be replaced because of breakage.
so basically after taking the car to them for a routine brake inspection and the damage done to the axle shaft. axles,axle housings,brakes,drums i have seen teh axle seals repeatedly break over and over. they have broken three times in just five thousand miles. and it is a 2000 $ job to replace them each time. the car dives horribly after teh hammering too. the acceleration is slower and teh gas milegae is or seems to be worse because there seems to be some drag or friction in teh rear wheels or axles. the axles may have been bent during the hammering or the axle housing may have been damaged. and the poor driving experience may be caused by the gears in the differential being slightly damaged. nevertheless the car went from being a perfect car worth thirteen thousand dollars to being a lemon car with axle seals that constatnly break right after being replaced costing thousands to fix it each time. the car can only be sold with teh disclosure that is is a lemon car and has damage done the the rear drivetrain and brakes and anyone test driving it could see it drives poorly wiht noise and friction in teh rear wheels. from my experience selling cars even with the extremeley low mileage of 95,000 miles, it could probably be sold now for maybe 4 thousand dollars. i bought teh car with 89,955 thousand miles on it, and i rarely drive it and when i do it's only for short trips so i put barely any miles on it. these 4runners are hard to find for purchase and if it were in teh condition i bought it in undamage it would probably be worth 11000 dollars because i have only put 5000 miles on it since buying it for the retail blue book for about 13000 $. pepboys turned this once perfect car into a lemon and lost me about seven thousand dollars in value. (11,000-4,000) the average price for a 4rfunner for sale on autotrader is about 10,000 but those have higher miles on them. teh average person drives 12k per year so a 2001 average car would have about 168,000 miles on it. it must be pointed out that this car when i bought was the best of teh best-cherry complete with service records and well maintained, and a clean title and clean carfax report with original pain all around meaning the car had never been repainted because of an accident. i have spent probably 300 dollars more in gas than i would have had teh aceleration and gas mileage not been affected by the inspection. i have had to drive teh car that is uncomfortable to drive with noise and friction and grinding and teh car that was once a joy and fun to drive is now chore to drive. if i keep the car history shows that about every three thousand miles the axle seals and bearing and hubs and drums and brakes will need to be replaced costing 2000 dollars each time. so if i keep it and drive it 100,000 more miles it would cost tens of thousands of dollars to repair and keep up without stripping the differential gears from lack of lubrication. i am not asking for tens of thousands of dollars. i don't know how anyone would ever buy this car from me though. i would have to disclose it is now damaged and has problems and currently needs repairs and will need more to be driven. my curernt advisor and mechanic said i shouldn't even be driving it until it is repaired at toyota.
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