Hard to find Specs, Info & Measurements on 231mm 13WL Tundra Calipers & Rotors

[jmt2404]

13we vs 13wl

Has anyone really found a big difference between the 13WE and the 13WL calipers? Is the 199mm (13WE) brakes that much smaller? Can you notice that much of a difference when braking?

And does the parts store really check on the size of the calipers your turning in for a core charge? like if i turn in some 13we for 13wl are they going to know? or will they take my stock runner calipers as core?

 

[BigFishAllDay]

Maybe someone with the 13WE's can post some similar measurements... Length, width, size of the pad cavity, etc, for comparison.

I know the main difference is that the 13WL's are longer overall. My guess is that the 13WE's will have a smaller pad cavity, using pads more similar in size to the stock 4Runner pads. I would also bet that the pistons are smaller in diameter. Again, just guesses because I have not held a 13WE nor have I seen it's specs posted.

I found this info:

The mechanical difference boils down to the updated caliper being much larger to hold a larger pad....The early style pad (in the 13WE caliper) will be less than 5” (4-11/16” or 199.5 mm) in width; the (pads in the) later update (13WL caliper) is more than 5” (5-5/16” or 231 mm). Both of the calipers have the same dimensions on the mounting bosses......The update will replace the calipers with a larger set that will provide additional swept area and fluid capacity for heavy-duty use.

In this article, which EVERYONE should read. LOTS of good info on caliper design in general >>> http://www.brakeandfrontend.com/article/74572/brake_job_toyota_tundra_brake_caliper_upgrade.aspx

So, that's something thats news to me.... The 199mm or 231mm designation is referring to the size of the pads and has nothing to do with the calipers. Hmmmmmmmmmm.

 

[CoMarc]

Great write up! I wish something like this was around when I did mine! Luckily, this is really a pretty easy swap to do, but having all this information at one's fingertips is great!

To stop the brakeline from flowing (and dumping tons of brake fluid all over) I used a similar method that BigFishAllDay used. However, instead of a cloth I grabbed a plastic bag, cut a piece out of it and placed it on the end of the brake line. Then I used a rubberband to hold the piece of plastic bag to the brake line, and this stopped all dripping and possible airflow.

I also didn't have access to a dremel so I used tin-snips to remove the unneeded dustshield pieces.

Again, GREAT write-up and information on this awesome mod! One of the best mods someone can do to our 4Runners to improve braking performance. :thumb3:

 

[Nelsonmd]

Another question, the listing for OEM front pads (0446535290), is that for both sides, or is that for 1 side? Just trying to price this out.

 

[BigFishAllDay]

I just bought some OEM pads, and the box included 4 pads... 2 for each side... in other words, a full set.

HOWEVER, that does not include the shims and they want another $40 for the shims.

 

[ALBPM]

The shims were attached to the backs of the AutoZone pads.

 

[BigFishAllDay]

The shims were attached to the backs of the AutoZone pads.

True, and they are included with the NAPA pads as well. There's just one BIG, HUGE PROBLEM w/the NAPA's Super Premium pads, and I would assume the AutoZone pads as well....

There are only two benefits to going w/the bigger tundra caliper... 1) fluid capacity, 2) Larger brake pad, which results in a larger swept area on the rotor.

Take a look at your pads. You MIGHT notice that on the AZ pads, they have a beveled edge on both sides of the pad material. If so, this beveled edge significantly reduces the amount of contact the pad is making with the rotor. As the pad wears, more and more of the pad comes into contact with the rotor.

This ends up completely negating the 2nd benefit of going with the bigger caliper....at least until the pads have worn down to where the beveled edge is gone, and by then they are almost worn out.

TOYOTA pads are designed in such a way that the entire pad surface is contacting the rotor from Day 1. They end up costing more once you fork out for the shims, but I'm not about to half ass it after having dropped so much coin on these brakes. I want every last ounce of performance increase and I want it from the date of installation.

Actually, in the pic you posted, your pads look good ALBPM. They don't look like they have that beveled edge on the pad material.

 

[brian2sun]

True, and they are included with the NAPA pads as well. There's just one BIG, HUGE PROBLEM w/the NAPA pads, and I would assume the AutoZone pads as well....

There are only two benefits to going w/the bigger tundra caliper... 1) fluid capacity, 2) Larger brake pad, which results in a larger swept area on the rotor.

Take a look at your pads. You'll probably notice that on the AZ pads, they have a beveled edge on both sides of the pad material. This beveled edge significantly reduces the amount of contact the pad is making with the rotor. As the pad wears, more and more of the pad comes into contact with the rotor.

This ends up completely negating the 2nd benefit of going with the bigger caliper....at least until the pads have worn down to where the beveled edge is gone, and by then they are almost worn out.

TOYOTA pads are designed in such a way that the entire pad surface is contacting the rotor from Day 1. They end up costing more once you fork out for the shims, but I'm not about to half ass it after having dropped so much coin on these brakes. I want every last ounce of performance increase and I want it from the date of installation.

The ceramic pads I got from Napa are like the OEMs and they were ~$45 for the set. I noticed some of the other pads they sold were like the ones you mentioned.

I mixed and matched my stuff. Bought the calipers from Autozone and the rotors and pads from Napa to get the best price. I paid about $320 total for the upgrade. I believe my Autozone calipers are OEM castings too.

 

[BigFishAllDay]

The ceramic pads I got from Napa are like the OEMs and they were ~$45 for the set. I noticed some of the other pads they sold were like the ones you mentioned.

I mixed and matched my stuff. Bought the calipers from Autozone and the rotors and pads from Napa to get the best price. I paid about $320 total for the upgrade. I believe my Autozone calipers are OEM castings too.

Good the hear. Are you sure though? Because in the pic you posted earlier it looks like the pads have that beveled outside edge? Is that a different truck?

Do you remember which version of pads you got from NAPA? Because I'm not dead set on using Toyota pads, but I am dead set on getting a pad that employs it's full surface area for friction from Day 1.

If I can get a decent set of pads without the beveled edge, that include shims, I'll go return these 'Yota pads.

 

[LittleCaesar]

I never found any brake pad kit with the shims in doing this in 2009.

Here is the part# I needed for the shims: 04945-0C030. I want to say around $40 for them to fit a 2006 pair of calipers and pads. I believe there is a different part # for the earlier shims previous to October, 2004.

 

[ALBPM]

True, and they are included with the NAPA pads as well. There's just one BIG, HUGE PROBLEM w/the NAPA's Super Premium pads, and I would assume the AutoZone pads as well....

There are only two benefits to going w/the bigger tundra caliper... 1) fluid capacity, 2) Larger brake pad, which results in a larger swept area on the rotor.

Take a look at your pads. You MIGHT notice that on the AZ pads, they have a beveled edge on both sides of the pad material. If so, this beveled edge significantly reduces the amount of contact the pad is making with the rotor. As the pad wears, more and more of the pad comes into contact with the rotor.

This ends up completely negating the 2nd benefit of going with the bigger caliper....at least until the pads have worn down to where the beveled edge is gone, and by then they are almost worn out.

TOYOTA pads are designed in such a way that the entire pad surface is contacting the rotor from Day 1. They end up costing more once you fork out for the shims, but I'm not about to half ass it after having dropped so much coin on these brakes. I want every last ounce of performance increase and I want it from the date of installation.

Actually, in the pic you posted, your pads look good ALBPM. They don't look like they have that beveled edge on the pad material.

Here is the part I got from AutoZone : if there was a bevel on mine it was not noticeable.

Duralast Gold Cmax/Brake Pads - Front
For your 2006 Toyota Truck Tundra 4WD 4.7L EFI DOHC 8cyl
Part Number: DGC976

Features & Benefits

Maximum ceramic brake pads have a friction material that is formulated for ultra quiet stopping performance with low dust and a longer life as well as shorter stopping distances which makes Duralast Gold Cmax the brake pad of choice
•Hardware kits included where applicable for one stop shopping with everything included in the box for a complete brake job
•Rigid steel inner shim is a fundamental part of every brake pad and when combined with the nitrile rubber shim layer the vibration and noise is virtually eliminated
•Powder coated steel backing plate prevents corrosion and includes an acrylic adhesive layer to aid in vibration and noise suppression
•Slotted and chamfered friction blocks match the original equipment design

Part Number: DGC976
Weight: 4.85 lbs
Warranty: Limited Lifetime
Notes: Premium ceramicUltra Quiet with patented nitrile rubber shim. Disc hardware included.
Brake Component Height: 3.05 in.
Brake Component Length: 5.3 in.
Brake Component Width: 0.22 in.
Brake Pad Anti-Squeal Shims Included: Yes
Brake Pad Type: Ceramic
Brake Pad/Shoe Material: Ceramic
Built-In Wear Sensors: Yes
Color / Finish: Black
Component Hardware Included: Yes
Package Contents: 1 Set Of Disc Brake Pads
Performance Item: OEM Standard Part
Wear Sensor Type: Mechanical

 

[Nelsonmd]

BigFish, Here's some additional Info you can add into your original posts (since no one wants to scroll all the way to the bottom for this golden information...)

I have found that shops don't distinguish between 13WL and 13WG, no one really seems to know the difference, and lots of people have gotten them mixed up. Well after some extensive googling (at work:naughty, I figured it out. It is all about the brake line angle.

13WL

Ignore the fact that he used a banjo fitting, not an inline.

13WG

13WE for reference (199mm)

Feel free to plagerize.

Bottom line is, 13WL is needed for hard line fitting, but if you replace the hard line with flex line, you could use either.

 

[BigFishAllDay]

BigFish, Here's some additional Info you can add into your original posts (since no one wants to scroll all the way to the bottom for this golden information...)

I have found that shops don't distinguish between 13WL and 13WG, no one really seems to know the difference, and lots of people have gotten them mixed up. Well after some extensive googling (at work:naughty, I figured it out. It is all about the brake line angle.

That is definitely interesting. Thanks for adding that to the thread. I'll get that in somewhere near the beginning as a heads up so people don't get the WG by mistake.

The WG was offered to me when I purchased my calipers. I wondered what it was all about, but when she told me it was $226, I forgot about that pretty quickly and said give me the WL.

 

[Nelsonmd]

Yeah, I guess the WG's were the common caliper after 2006. The WL's were the replacement for the TSB on the 01-06 taco's (or was it tundras). That may be why they cost more, they're newer

 

[brian2sun]

Good the hear. Are you sure though? Because in the pic you posted earlier it looks like the pads have that beveled outside edge? Is that a different truck?

Do you remember which version of pads you got from NAPA? Because I'm not dead set on using Toyota pads, but I am dead set on getting a pad that employs it's full surface area for friction from Day 1.

If I can get a decent set of pads without the beveled edge, that include shims, I'll go return these 'Yota pads.

Yeah, the pic I posted isn't my truck, I just found it on the web to show the retainer spring. My pads were Napa brand TruStops (I think). They said "ceramic" on the box and were ~$45. The Napa dude recommended them because they're cheap and just like the OEMs he said.

 

[BrianSD_42]

Has anyone recorded a stop test before and after the upgrade?

I am thinking it would be great to see some stopping times from 60-0. BigFish, perhaps you could use your other 4Runner as a reference for stock times.

:nicethread:

 

[BigFishAllDay]

Brian2sun, thanks for clarifying.

brianemc2_42,

A test like that would have to be done before & after on the same vehicle.

I thought about doing it on mine but I didn't want to go out and abuse the factory brake setup on my '01. It's only got 3000 miles on it, and my '97 needs brakes too, so the stock stuff off the '01 is going on the '97.

I could put the new brakes on my '97, then compare it to the '01, but it woudln't be apples to apples with the bigger tires/added weight on the '01.

If someone is sitting on stock suspension w/no armor and 231's, we could have them do a test stop, then compare to what someone else gets w/stock, but even then it will be totally inaccurate because of differences in tires, road surface, ambient temps, etc, etc. To get valid test results it would have to be same truck, same day, same road.

I'm satisfied w/the testimonials of hundreds of satisfied owners who say that brake feel has improved significantly, warping is eliminated, and braking strengh is increased. :cheers:

 

[ALBPM]

Also a Bed-In process for the new Pads would be a good thing for this Thread...
This is what 4-Ripcord and I did after upgrading our Runners.

Bedding in Advantages:

1.Gradually heat treats the rotor and eliminates any thermal shock in the rotor.
2.Burn off volatiles and moisture from the resin that is near pad surface.
This will eliminate “green fade.”
3.Establish a layer of transfer film about a few microns thick on the rotor surface.
Shearing of the film during friction is an effective source of friction force.
Otherwise, when using a freshly ground rotor without the transfer film, the main
friction force would come from cutting, plowing, or scoring the asperities on the
rotor surface. This leads to inconsistent braking effectiveness.
4.Mate the two surfaces to a near perfect geometrical match, so that the contact
area is high, and therefore the friction force is increased.
5.The performance of a fresh rotor/fresh pad system would be inconsistent. This
is due to ever-changing structures and properties of the two mating materials.
Bed-in of pads and rotor will form a stable transfer film.
6.If bedding in procedure is not applied, a stable transfer film may not be
established for a long time. In other words, the rotor surface would have to be
constantly regenerating a film that is not quite stable for a long time. This
effect would reduce the performance and increase the wear.


Bed In Procedure:

From a speed of about 60mph, gently apply the brakes to slow the car down to about
45mph, then accelerate back up to 60mph and repeat. Do this about four or five times
to bring the brakes up to operating temperature. This prevents you from thermally
shocking the rotors and pads in the next steps.

Make a series of eight near-stops from 60 to about 10 mph. Do it HARD by pressing
on the brakes firmly, just shy of locking the wheels or engaging ABS. At the end
of each slowdown, immediately accelerate back to 60mph. DO NOT COME TO A COMPLETE STOP!
(Note: With less aggressive street pads and/or stock brake calipers, you may need to
do this fewer times. If your pedal gets soft or you feel the brakes going away, then
you've done enough. Proceed to the next step.)

During this process, you must not come to a complete stop because you will transfer
(imprint) pad material onto the hot rotors, which can lead to vibration, uneven braking,
and could even ruin the rotors.

Depending on the pads you are using, the brakes may begin to fade slightly after the
7th or 8th near-stop. This fade will stabilize, but not completely go away until the brakes
have fully cooled. A bad smell from the brakes, and even some smoke, is normal.

After the 8th near-stop, accelerate back up to speed and drive around for as long as
possible without using the brakes. The brakes will need at least 10 minutes to cool down.
Obviously, it's OK to use the brakes to avoid an accident, but try to minimize their use
until they have cooled.

After the break-in cycle, there should be a blue tint and a light gray film on the rotor face.
The blue tint tells you the rotor has reached break-in temperature and the gray film is pad material
starting to transfer onto the rotor face. This is what you are looking for. The best braking occurs
when there is an even layer of of pad material deposited across the face of the rotors. This minimizes
squealing, increases braking torque, and maximizes pad and rotor life.

After the first break in cycle shown above, the brakes may still not be fully broken in.
A second bed-in cycle, AFTER the brakes have cooled down fully from the first cycle,
may be necessary before the brakes really start to perform well. If you've just installed
a big brake kit, the pedal travel may not feel as firm as you expected. After the second cycle,
the pedal will become noticeably firmer.

 

[BigFishAllDay]

ALBPM, would it be ok with you if I moved that to the front of the thread and into one of my 3 initial posts. I will give you due credit, of course.

 

[ALBPM]

No problem!!!