Hate the new tax plan?

[AKmoney]

BTW another question ... the stock market is up 20+% in one year. Tech stocks are worth billions for companies with < 20 employees, Tesla is going to 1000 or $0. So who thinks we are due for a major market and housing crash?

:bat:

There will always be another market and housing recession coming, but it's simply impossible to predict when it will occur. The only thing you can do is adjust your investment asset allocation based on your risk tolerance. If you're still >20 years away from retirement, your best bet is to stay in the market. Plenty of time to ride it out.

BTW - back in 2013 when half the people I knew thought the stock market would crash again, it went up >30%...

 

[mrblah]

I'm a simple man with simple needs, and all i see is that we have three options:

1. give money or tax relief to the poor, which isn't nearly enough for them to invest into their own future, let alone our country's future (through investment, small business or others, because they don't pay enough taxes to where tax cuts are meaningful. Besides all that money you give to the poor will go to their rich landlords and big corporations that sell cheap overseas junk (Target, walmart, sears, etc).

or...

2. give money or tax relief to the upper middle class or rich, which can be substantial enough to invest in their own future or our country's future (through money market, small business or others), or more willing to pay a premium for better made products and services.

or....

3. Do nothing, and continue to increase the red tape BS to starting a business, increase state taxes, increase federal taxes which only leads to business's moving or hiding their money overseas (apple, walgreens, etc).
This has worked out real well, increasing our deficit on average 1 trillion dollars a year (not including the 2 ongoing war efforts), for the last 8 years.


I don't like Trump as a person per se, but after seeing options 1 and 3 in the last 8 years, I'm all for something new....so I pick option 2.

Want to hear something funny:

Governor Brown (AKA Moonbeam) of California is retiring soon, so on his way out, he increased taxes on everything in california (from gasoline/car reg. to the air we breathe in the form of smog credits), and now his party is championing a one payer healthcare system. During a town hall debate between the 3 candidates fighting for his seat, they all on television championed the one payer healthcare and all the social programs we have in California. Now off camera, after the debate, 2 out of 3 candidates admitted that California is going to be in big trouble fiscally after Gov. Moonbeam leaves office, and even worse, if one payer healthcare becomes a reality (although its far from reality atm). They admitted that they can't increase our state taxes anymore because they ran out of things to tax, and unless the whole state tax code gets overhauled, the spending is unsustainable, and worse, if trump cuts federal aid to california.

This is why Trump got elected into office. Politicians will say anything to get elected into office (both republicans and democrats). At least with Trump, he is trying to keep his campaign promises (good if you voted for him, bad if you didn't). i had to remind my colleagues that if they didn't like his campaign promises when he was a candidate, you won't like him now when he's making good on them.

 

[KAK707]

mrblah...I live in Northern Commiefornia and I am wondering how you were able to finish asking the question without being interrupted at least 3 times with tearful Liberal slander ?

 

[mrblah]

mrblah...I live in Northern Commiefornia and I am wondering how you were able to finish asking the question without being interrupted at least 3 times with tearful Liberal slander ?

oh trust me she does. She's called me crazy, redneck, KKK supporter, and as of last week, i'm a ardent supporter of Israeli's apartheid. I responded, that am I all of the above, or I pick and choose my racist views based on what day of the week it is. I don't get mad because I believe in free speech, you can say what you want just dont threaten me.

YOu know what her answer was: You can be chinese, like tacos and hate blacks, that doesn't mean you aren't a nazi...........Yeah....that was her logic. Reminds me of that david chapelle skit, where he is a blind, african american KKK member.....not even close to reality.


Btw, I'm a Chinese American that identifies as moderate democrat that sells drugs (pharmacist), that believes in your right to freedom of speech, and right to bear arms.

Also, a little part of me finds delight that for at least the next 3 years, the leftist crazies in the political party that I belong to, will wake up every morning hating life (trump)....lol

 

[Bumbo]

I know we've had our differences in the past, so don't take this as any sort of attack, but as an honest question looking for an honest answer. What makes you think the idea of trickle down is going to work in this form when it has never worked in the past (Reagan or Bush)? And what incentive does it give for large companies to bring back jobs to the USA?

I am working for a small company, we don't have any resources outside of the USA, but the tax plan has already influenced management in a positive way...

With the savings they want to hire more people and have already started doing so, which was essentially a creation of jobs, and the real kicker... for the first time since the start of the company, 40+ years ago, it's the FIRST time they ever offered a company health plan. PPO paid in full for 2018...

So in addition to a reduction in income tax, I get health paid for saving me another $500/month, and more staff to help out the shop.

You don't see me complaining, that's for sure, and we are already seeing the trickle down because of that 15% tax saving for corporations.

I don't know what is happening elsewhere, but for us, its been overall positive as upper management took that and started to reinvest back in the company. Something they wanted to do, but were not able to afford to in the past.

 

[4Reak Show]

The issue with trickle down is that one has to trust people who are likely to be fundamentally greedy individuals to part with their prospective wealth, without any promises of doing so.

If ya'll have the faith that these rich mother f*ckers are really going to hand out a bunch of extra money to folks they probably see as disposable, then I'm truely jealous of your trust in man. Greed and corruption only breeds itself. Until fundamental mindsets are altered for the good and betterment of ALL, it's a catch 22 at best.

Take an aspirin for a disembowlment and call me in the morning.

 

[Hepar]

I am working for a small company, we don't have any resources outside of the USA, but the tax plan has already influenced management in a positive way...

With the savings they are able to hire more people, which was essentially a creation of jobs, and the real kicker... for the first time since the start of the company, 40+ years ago, it's the FIRST time they ever offered a company health plan. PPO paid in full for 2018...

So in addition to a reduction in income tax, I get health paid for saving me another $500/month, and more staff to help out the shop.

You don't see me complaining, that's for sure, and we are already seeing the trickle down because of that 15% tax saving for corporations.

I don't know what is happening elsewhere, but for us, its been overall positive as upper management took that and started to reinvest back in the company. Something they wanted to do, but were not able to afford to in the past.

That's definitely good to hear, but also not unexpected to me. One of the biggest reasons I feel big business is bad is that employees cease to become people and are nothing more than numbers. It's easy to take advantage and not care about them when you see them that way. A small business is different. You see people more. Interact with your employees more. Know more about them. Thus, care more about them. Not saying that is how it is with every small business, just that the odds are that much more likely.

 

[mrblah]

The issue with trickle down is that one has to trust people who are likely to be fundamentally greedy individuals to part with their prospective wealth, without any promises of doing so.

If ya'll have the faith that these rich mother f*ckers are really going to hand out a bunch of extra money to folks they probably see as disposable, then I'm truely jealous of your trust in man. Greed and corruption only breeds itself. Until fundamental mindsets are altered for the good and betterment of ALL, it's a catch 22 at best.

Take an aspirin for a disembowlment and call me in the morning.

actually, you want them to be greedy, greeedy as F@#$@#$@#..... because its the pursue of wealth that leads to jobs.
There is no philantropy in business. You don't do anything to benefit anyone directly, or you won't make any money. You create a business, that employs people. Those employees make you money, and they also benefit to a lesser extent. Every business needs employees, those employees are part of the wealth (paychecks). As employees, we may feel disenfranchised, etc (but on the flipside, we can be unemployed, or not have the opportunity in the first place).

Now once you've "Made it" you can sit on your own laurels, and do things that benefit people.... but there is a time and place for it. Also, nobody is going to give away wealth. Nothing is free. People may think that tax break is free money, it isn't free. The government took that money that someone earned and is redistributing the wealth in the form of tax breaks. Considering the wealthy pays 80% percent of all taxes, of course its going to go back to them..but we all benefit too (unless you are poor)

For example, I get paid well, but i get taxed over 60k a year, and I also have 200k in student debt. So on paper, I'm rich, but reality, I'm just middle class.

So you know what I do every day that I'm not working as a pharmacist. I'm looking for ways to make money. I'm greedy as @#$@#$@#$. Whether its to invest in a friends business venture, buying stocks on the stock market, or taking a loss (i'm serious) so i can deduct it on taxes. My mindset is I didn't go to school, to make this kind of money, so the government can take it all away...but what am i suppose to do? I have to make more money.......and I hustle as if I didn't have any money.

Its life man..... We hoard enough til we are comfortable then we go and try to make more money..... and when we do, everyone benefits. Thats life.

Difference betwen rich and poor... rich people have enough money to take huge risks to make more money. They pursue it. Poor people don't have enough money to even start a business, so they don't care about their future, just spend the money now. All my not so wealthy friends and coworkers rather go fishing, or cook, or spend time at home on their day's off and are stuck in their current lifestyle. My wealthy friends spend every waking moment looking for ways to make money, and when they do, they spend big.


I'm not the only one that thinks this way. People say this leads to cronism (sp) that the rich get richer. Well, if you had a business plan, that you knew would make money, who would you get to invest in your plan....lol. The poor will not invest in your plan....period.


Off tangent:

You know all those billionaires like (Musk, Gates, Bezos) that give money half their money away to charity, they are the most hypocritical people on the planet, considering the byproduct of their technology has pretty much destroyed the blue collar work force (overseas) and also white collar work (reduced man hours/data centers overseas)........ but you only hear in the media how generous they are to charity....lol. So they should give away some of their wealth considering part of their legacy has changed the way american's live (better or worse)


Sorry I sometimes sound angry.......i'm not..lol

 

[KAK707]

I love that david chapelle skit...also the Gay kkk one

 

[Thai]

The issue with trickle down is that one has to trust people who are likely to be fundamentally greedy individuals to part with their prospective wealth, without any promises of doing so.

If ya'll have the faith that these rich mother f*ckers are really going to hand out a bunch of extra money to folks they probably see as disposable, then I'm truely jealous of your trust in man. Greed and corruption only breeds itself. Until fundamental mindsets are altered for the good and betterment of ALL, it's a catch 22 at best.

Take an aspirin for a disembowlment and call me in the morning.

As long as i have a stable job with good benefits and can provide for my family, then YES I WANT MY BOSS TO MAKE LOTS OF MONEY thru pure greed so that i can keep providing for my family!!!

And what happens when my boss makes zero money...what happens to my job?

Seriously, WTF are you thinking dude! You make it seem like jobs and factories come out of the sky! Your “rationale” is the damn reason we are in a shit hole that we’re in.

 

[AntleredRuin]

I kinda think that all the hype over this is actually pretty funny in the first pace. I mean, I would not mind a bonus, but if it DOESN'T happen, I'm not gonna get in a hissy over it.
I depend on my own skills and hard work to make my money and my lifestyle, not on tax breaks and bonuses.

A $1000 bonus would be neat, but it won't change my life, and let's face it, it probably won't permanently change anyone else's life either. Poor people who 'really need it' will use it instantly on basic necessities, and it'll last maybe a couple of months, if not much less. It won't stop them from being poor, it'll just get them through another month.

The next up are people who aren't poor, per se, but don't have a lot of excess. This money would just sit there, maybe as a cushion in the checking account, but it would not really change anything.

The only people who would really benefit from that, are people for which it would be extra. They could take that $1000 and invest it into something that gets good return. And honestly, at that point, they could probably have saved up a bit and invested their own worked-for money soon.


I don't 'need' a bonus, but I won't say no to one. I would not expect one, and I would not throw a tantrum if I did not get one.
CEOs and Presidents of corporations do not owe that to their employees. If you get a bonus (outside of a contractually obligated one) it is a gift. It is something that the boss did to be nice, for whatever reason.

If you don't think you make enough money, or you disagree on your boss' handling of HIS company's money, then you have full ability to get a new job. Stop relying on government handouts and tax breaks.

 

[Thai]

I kinda think that all the hype over this is actually pretty funny in the first pace. I mean, I would not mind a bonus, but if it DOESN'T happen, I'm not gonna get in a hissy over it.
I depend on my own skills and hard work to make my money and my lifestyle, not on tax breaks and bonuses.

A $1000 bonus would be neat, but it won't change my life, and let's face it, it probably won't permanently change anyone else's life either. Poor people who 'really need it' will use it instantly on basic necessities, and it'll last maybe a couple of months, if not much less. It won't stop them from being poor, it'll just get them through another month.

The next up are people who aren't poor, per se, but don't have a lot of excess. This money would just sit there, maybe as a cushion in the checking account, but it would not really change anything.

The only people who would really benefit from that, are people for which it would be extra. They could take that $1000 and invest it into something that gets good return. And honestly, at that point, they could probably have saved up a bit and invested their own worked-for money soon.


I don't 'need' a bonus, but I won't say no to one. I would not expect one, and I would not throw a tantrum if I did not get one.
CEOs and Presidents of corporations do not owe that to their employees. If you get a bonus (outside of a contractually obligated one) it is a gift. It is something that the boss did to be nice, for whatever reason.

If you don't think you make enough money, or you disagree on your boss' handling of HIS company's money, then you have full ability to get a new job. Stop relying on government handouts and tax breaks.

But I like my 401k thank you. I like my stocks. I like that there will be more jobs available to more people of all classes.

So, in your eyes, I am wrong?

 

[mrblah]

I kinda think that all the hype over this is actually pretty funny in the first pace. I mean, I would not mind a bonus, but if it DOESN'T happen, I'm not gonna get in a hissy over it.
I depend on my own skills and hard work to make my money and my lifestyle, not on tax breaks and bonuses.

A $1000 bonus would be neat, but it won't change my life, and let's face it, it probably won't permanently change anyone else's life either. Poor people who 'really need it' will use it instantly on basic necessities, and it'll last maybe a couple of months, if not much less. It won't stop them from being poor, it'll just get them through another month.

The next up are people who aren't poor, per se, but don't have a lot of excess. This money would just sit there, maybe as a cushion in the checking account, but it would not really change anything.

The only people who would really benefit from that, are people for which it would be extra. They could take that $1000 and invest it into something that gets good return. And honestly, at that point, they could probably have saved up a bit and invested their own worked-for money soon.


I don't 'need' a bonus, but I won't say no to one. I would not expect one, and I would not throw a tantrum if I did not get one.
CEOs and Presidents of corporations do not owe that to their employees. If you get a bonus (outside of a contractually obligated one) it is a gift. It is something that the boss did to be nice, for whatever reason.

If you don't think you make enough money, or you disagree on your boss' handling of HIS company's money, then you have full ability to get a new job. Stop relying on government handouts and tax breaks.

yup...i agree with you.

If you are a disenfranchised employee, no amount of money is going to change that. Making this into a rich vs poor argument will serve no purpose other than make your blood pressure rise.

I also forgot to add, corporations flush with cash usually do 4 things:

1. Hoard it, but not for long, because they have to answer to shareholders.
2. Share buybacks....this basically rewards the shareholders by increasing the value of their stocks.
3. buy a company: buy up everything they can afford to make more money.
4. start a new division: same as number 3.
5. screw it all up, and buy too much too fast increasing their debt (rite aid).

Notice, consumers/employees aren't mentioned in it, but they are directly affected when a company has more money...you have more stuff to buy, and more people to employ.

 

[AntleredRuin]

But I like my 401k thank you. I like my stocks. I like that there will be more jobs available to more people of all classes.

So, in your eyes, I am wrong?

I never said that at all. I like my 401k, too. I like my stocks, too. More jobs for all is a good thing, etc.
I'm just saying that giving someone $1000 isn't going to magically change their life at all, unless they already have the ability to invest it.

If I got $1000, I'd invest it (or buy myself something pretty). I make enough now, that I could do that and 'not miss' it. If I were poorer, I might really need that $1000, but it would not make any long term difference.

The ONLY long term difference in quality of life (finance related) is related to someone's hard work and common sense about the job they are in.

Simply put, if you don't make enough, quit your *****in' and get a new job. Don't wait on government handouts.

 

[mrblah]

I never said that at all. I like my 401k, too. I like my stocks, too. More jobs for all is a good thing, etc.
I'm just saying that giving someone $1000 isn't going to magically change their life at all, unless they already have the ability to invest it.

If I got $1000, I'd invest it (or buy myself something pretty). I make enough now, that I could do that and 'not miss' it. If I were poorer, I might really need that $1000, but it would not make any long term difference.

The ONLY long term difference in quality of life (finance related) is related to someone's hard work and common sense about the job they are in.

Simply put, if you don't make enough, quit your *****in' and get a new job. Don't wait on government handouts.

I
some people are pissed that 1 percent tax break to the rich equals 100,000,000,000.....lol

The people arguing against the tax break plan focus on two types of people, the people getting the 100,000,000,000, and those at the poverty level which wont get any break at all (but didn't pay taxes to begin with).

They draw in the middle class argument, saying 1k is nothing compared to 100,000,000,000...... and that we all should get 100,000,000,000....and if we don't get it, we are getting nothing. I don't know man, I'll take the 1k, and go buy some mods for my 4runner...lol.

I"m with you man. I'm happy to get some money back, any money back vs. paying more and more every single day. IN california, large business have to buy smog credits now......you believe that? We pay for the air we breathe now. Sad thing is what happens in california, sooner or latter ends up on the national level. People in california, think its a good idea to punish businesses with taxes, what they don't realize is business don't actually pay the tax, the consumer does.

 

[Bumbo]

A $1000 bonus would be neat, but it won't change my life, and let's face it, it probably won't permanently change anyone else's life either. Poor people who 'really need it' will use it instantly on basic necessities, and it'll last maybe a couple of months, if not much less. It won't stop them from being poor, it'll just get them through another month.

I'm just saying that giving someone $1000 isn't going to magically change their life at all...

I dunno... last time I had a spare $1000 to blow I bought an ARB fridge freezer and it literally changed my life... and has lasted more than just a couple months. Still paying me dividends to this day too.

Just saying...

 

[AntleredRuin]

I dunno... last time I had a spare $1000 to blow I bought an ARB fridge freezer and it literally changed my life... and has lasted more than just a couple months. Still paying me dividends to this day too.

Just saying...

Hahaha you know what I mean, smartass.


But that proves my point. You had a 'spare' $1000, that you spent on a fridge. You could afford to buy that, presumably because you have a stable and at least relatively successful job. You didn't NEED that money.

For anyone who really really really needs the $1000, it's really not gonna help, long term. It's gonna go to rent and utilities, and that'll be it. It won't legitimately help their financial situation.


Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[ThatSickRip]

I'm a simple man with simple needs, and all i see is that we have three options:

1. give money or tax relief to the poor, which isn't nearly enough for them to invest into their own future, let alone our country's future (through investment, small business or others, because they don't pay enough taxes to where tax cuts are meaningful. Besides all that money you give to the poor will go to their rich landlords and big corporations that sell cheap overseas junk (Target, walmart, sears, etc).

or...

2. give money or tax relief to the upper middle class or rich, which can be substantial enough to invest in their own future or our country's future (through money market, small business or others), or more willing to pay a premium for better made products and services.

or....

3. Do nothing, and continue to increase the red tape BS to starting a business, increase state taxes, increase federal taxes which only leads to business's moving or hiding their money overseas (apple, walgreens, etc).
This has worked out real well, increasing our deficit on average 1 trillion dollars a year (not including the 2 ongoing war efforts), for the last 8 years.


I don't like Trump as a person per se, but after seeing options 1 and 3 in the last 8 years, I'm all for something new....so I pick option 2.

Want to hear something funny:

Governor Brown (AKA Moonbeam) of California is retiring soon, so on his way out, he increased taxes on everything in california (from gasoline/car reg. to the air we breathe in the form of smog credits), and now his party is championing a one payer healthcare system. During a town hall debate between the 3 candidates fighting for his seat, they all on television championed the one payer healthcare and all the social programs we have in California. Now off camera, after the debate, 2 out of 3 candidates admitted that California is going to be in big trouble fiscally after Gov. Moonbeam leaves office, and even worse, if one payer healthcare becomes a reality (although its far from reality atm). They admitted that they can't increase our state taxes anymore because they ran out of things to tax, and unless the whole state tax code gets overhauled, the spending is unsustainable, and worse, if trump cuts federal aid to california.

This is why Trump got elected into office. Politicians will say anything to get elected into office (both republicans and democrats). At least with Trump, he is trying to keep his campaign promises (good if you voted for him, bad if you didn't). i had to remind my colleagues that if they didn't like his campaign promises when he was a candidate, you won't like him now when he's making good on them.

oh trust me she does. She's called me crazy, redneck, KKK supporter, and as of last week, i'm a ardent supporter of Israeli's apartheid. I responded, that am I all of the above, or I pick and choose my racist views based on what day of the week it is. I don't get mad because I believe in free speech, you can say what you want just dont threaten me.

YOu know what her answer was: You can be chinese, like tacos and hate blacks, that doesn't mean you aren't a nazi...........Yeah....that was her logic. Reminds me of that david chapelle skit, where he is a blind, african american KKK member.....not even close to reality.


Btw, I'm a Chinese American that identifies as moderate democrat that sells drugs (pharmacist), that believes in your right to freedom of speech, and right to bear arms.

Also, a little part of me finds delight that for at least the next 3 years, the leftist crazies in the political party that I belong to, will wake up every morning hating life (trump)....lol

Are you sure you're a Dem?:shocked: Come on, drink the Kool Aid, take the red pill and come to the Dark Side :naughty:

In all seriousness, Im with you on the crazies in the parties (far right drive me crazy as a R). Its sad that the common sense side (being objective instead of subjective) is a rarity and everything is based on emotions and feelings, not facts and numbers.

LIFE doesnt care about your feelings
BUSINESS doesnt care about your feelings
THE WORLD doesnt care about your feelings

The saying is "Facts of Life" for a reason, not "Feelings of Life"

 

[Bumbo]

Hahaha you know what I mean, smartass.


But that proves my point. You had a 'spare' $1000, that you spent on a fridge. You could afford to buy that, presumably because you have a stable and at least relatively successful job. You didn't NEED that money.

For anyone who really really really needs the $1000, it's really not gonna help, long term. It's gonna go to rent and utilities, and that'll be it. It won't legitimately help their financial situation.

I was trying to be a smartass haha. I thought it would be a good example because it really was a game changer.

First off, there is no such thing as a spare $1000, no such thing as a free lunch, and the only guarantee is in life is there are no guarantees.

If you want me to be 100% honest with you... I really had to fight with myself to buy that fridge because I bought it when I was out of work. I decided to dip into my savings and live life a little by going on some off-grid camps and road trips before starting work again.

At the end of the day, $1000 is $1000. $1000 gives $1000 worth of help to a financial situation regardless of if you need it or not.

If I was super poor living from check to check, I sure would appreciate 1k worth of relief. Its how you choose to use it that defines you. You either buy spinning rims, or buy something to move you forward.

Not drinking a $5 cup of Starbucks a day can also turn you into a millionaire... Lottery winners go bankrupt, pro athletes go broke all the time, and snoop-dog still has a job.... lifestyle choices go a long way regardless of how much money you do or don't have.

 

[4Reak Show]

As long as i have a stable job with good benefits and can provide for my family, then YES I WANT MY BOSS TO MAKE LOTS OF MONEY thru pure greed so that i can keep providing for my family!!!


And what happens when my boss makes zero money...what happens to my job?


Seriously, WTF are you thinking dude! You make it seem like jobs and factories come out of the sky! Your “rationale” is the damn reason we are in a shit hole that we’re in.

I said greed breeds greed and you've proven my point by saying you "want your boss to make lots of money thru greed to provide YOU with stability." Saying nothing about helping another man in any other respect besides money. Any means necessary then right? And these greedy f*cks are just like that but with unlimited connections and all that jazz.

Maybe I wasn't clear enough or I'm just too hippy minded but it would be awesome if we weren't so damn money driven. It's like all any human cares about is a magic number attached to yourself or an item, backed but nothing more than another magic number dictated on a screen. Hilarious.

You said my mindset is the reason we're in this mess? Capitalism is the reason we're in this mess. History repeats itself. Remember the big crash? .... Yeah that was a bunch of greedy pricks who were f*ckin people over and when the bubble popped, they got rewarded with the same people's money whom they just f*cked. Retired hard working people whose retirement got wiped out are now forced to eat dog food while the bankers and corporate morons get bonuses. And now, you want to let those same greedy pricks continue to make "good investments" with more money left over right? Again, I just can't trust them. If you can, more power to you. It's all a game and we're pawns. Get your slice of pie if you'd like, but and the end of life, ain't no pie going with you!





.... Unless you fill your casket I guess. I'd probably go apple pie. 'Merica!