Hate the new tax plan?

[Thai]

Got me. I'll leave you to your Japanese vehicle filled with middle eastern fuel while you receive this on a Chinese built phone.

Hahahaha you're getting really personal. And really closed minded. You've turned down my thoughts without hearing one word. Proving my point further. You make my job of making you look dumb really easy.

*and it's not just Netflix. I also used to watch the West Wing.

Yeah, you get your ideas from Netflix and West Wing...enough said!

Keep going with your utopia fantasy and bitterness. One way ticket?

 

[fourwd1]

All,
This started out casual but is now getting unnecessarily personal.
PLEASE TONE IT DOWN

 

[mrmark]

Most who are disgusted by the tax plan don't even know what's in the tax plan.

 

[BrianSD_42]

I know what's in it and I don't like it because it increases the federal debt by $1.5 - $2 Trillion.

My conservative and libertarian side is outraged that we are borrowing against the treasury just to give out a super tax give away to the richest of the rich. And I don't mean high income. I mean the rich. Those making 400,000 or more are getting a windfall with this tax deal and it's an obnoxious give away at the expense of our kids and grandkids generations.

It doesn't matter that I will personally pay less taxes. What matters most to me is that my country is borrowing a mass sum by issuing debt on the market just so the super rich pay A LOT less in taxes in coming years.

Few people will debate me on this -on the actual points- because deep down folks here know that borrowing $1.5 - $2 Trillion against your future kids America, without investing a single dollar in better schools or roads or hospitals or even the military folks claim to love so much, is not actually good for America. Folks know it is wrong and shameful to do this.

My comments are not to any one member, believe it or not. Everyone is entitled to their political thoughts and I certainly respect our right to disagree.

:bat:

 

[simple]

You can’t keep condemning the wealthy they are the backbone of the economy. Rubio made that whole stance on child tax credit for low income families. It turned out to be an additional 75.00, really! More BS and grandstanding by useless politicians. I think Pelosi is equally hated by both parties. Sorry went on a tangent. Don’t get all upset liberals. I am an independent....equally disappointed by both parties

I think you misunderstand, dude. The middle class is the backbone of the economy... And American Society. If trickle down doesn’t work, and there’s empirical evidence that it doesn’t, the rich get richer and the middle class starts to disappear. And that’s a big problem.

Although I do find it ironic that those that defend the 1% here are all about ‘draining the swamp’ and hating the banks when they completely ****ed us in 2008 and when they’ll inevitably **** us again in the next recession. Also they condemn them for not bringing ‘our jobs’ back. Innovation requires adaptation. And the poor, (never mind that our education system is already a disgrace), can’t afford to get an education or learn a new skill because time is money and there are people who are surviving pay check to pay check. Other countries are smarter and willing to work for cheaper. And here we are, believing the world is flat, vaccines are poison, and Hilary is the evilest mother****er to ever walk the earth.

Clearly I lean left, but at the same time I think the right has valid points and arguments. The left should have played ball on tax reform, and the right should have put more than 6 mins of forethought into this sweeping change.

 

[JPGood]

I know what's in it and I don't like it because it increases the federal debt by $1.5 - $2 Trillion.

My conservative and libertarian side is outraged that we are borrowing against the treasury just to give out a super tax give away to the richest of the rich. And I don't mean high income. I mean the rich. Those making 400,000 or more are getting a windfall with this tax deal and it's an obnoxious give away at the expense of our kids and grandkids generations.

It doesn't matter that I will personally pay less taxes. What matters most to me is that my country is borrowing a mass sum by issuing debt on the market just so the super rich pay A LOT less in taxes in coming years.

Few people will debate me on this -on the actual points- because deep down folks here know that borrowing $1.5 - $2 Trillion against your future kids America, without investing a single dollar in better schools or roads or hospitals or even the military folks claim to love so much, is not actually good for America. Folks know it is wrong and shameful to do this.

My comments are not to any one member, believe it or not. Everyone is entitled to their political thoughts and I certainly respect our right to disagree.

:bat:

I dont trust the Government to provide what the cost of any law will be. They don't do budgets like any business or we do at our dining room tables. The Dems in congress that are complaining about this future Trillion dollar cost didn't care before. In fact Nancy Polosie said something like it was good for the economy. lol

This tax cut should be looked at like a "loss leader". Like when a business has a sale or sells something at a loss to get you to buy other things than the one item that you came in for. The money that business and individuals don't give to the Government in taxes will go somewhere. It will go back to expanding existing business (hiring companies that build new plants - who will hire new workers to build the plants, for example). It will go back to individuals (even if only $40/month) who will spend it on fast food or something. The influx of more people buying fast food will cause those companies to hire more.

This is the "trickle down" that is talked about. It isn't necessarily that more people will get cash (some will), but that there will be more opportunities (jobs).

 

[4Reak Show]

Yeah, you get your ideas from Netflix and West Wing...enough said!

Keep going with your utopia fantasy and bitterness. One way ticket?

Sarcasm bro. As if any word uttered here has any bearing on Washington. Don't you get that I've been messing with you this whole time? I would disagree with you no matter the stance just for a rise.

Sheesh. It's a forum for mid sized SUVs. Welcome to the land of trolls and honey.

 

[Thai]

Sarcasm bro. As if any word uttered here has any bearing on Washington. Don't you get that I've been messing with you this whole time? I would disagree with you no matter the stance just for a rise.

Sheesh. It's a forum for mid sized SUVs. Welcome to the land of trolls and honey.

Yeah, you were just trolling all this time...if you say so.

 

[4Reak Show]

Can I at least have the last word?

After all, if you ain't first, you're last
-Ricky Bobby

 

[Hepar]

I know what's in it and I don't like it because it increases the federal debt by $1.5 - $2 Trillion.

Exactly. The hypocrisy of a GOP who has been complaining (and complaining a lot) about the deficit to do this is astounding. And to believe that the "trickle down" effect is somehow going to be anywhere near that number? It takes a lot of thought, work and skill to lower taxes through cutting of the fat. Any mindless idiot can lower taxes by increasing debt. And yes, I have an issue with that type of move no matter which side makes it. The amount here as well as the distribution is what is so mind blowing to me.

 

[96RedRunner]

I doubt that any of you were around for the Carter years or the Reagan years
I was young then starting out in life, guess what, everyone survived, I worked hard, saved some money, invested some money, retired 2016 @ 59 yrs. old.
Worked around the world, The USA is still the best place to live, our standard of living is by far better than most.
You guy's need to chill out the sky is not falling, the armageddon is not going to happen, Life is what you make it!!!

 

[Thai]

I see a lot of fortune tellers here....

Has the dollar gone down in value since the tax plan approval? Has stocks gone down?

Is this the first time we used borrowed money?

Was the former tax plan not running on borrowed money as well...and made our economy WORST? Wasn’t the former tax plan made it prohibitive for business to invest in USA? Why did Apple store all their cash overseas?

Why not wait and see before we condemn it to hell?

 

[ic0517]

The way I understood it, is the GOP rank-and-file knew it was going to increase the deficit, but they had a one-in-twenty year chance to decrease the corporate tax rate to match what other countries have.

Somebody is going to have to clean up the mess, but hey, every other president fudges over the future, why not Trump join the list?

They didn't get rid of the AMT (Alternative Minimum Tax), or as I call it, the stay-at-home mom tax.

Our taxes will probably go up.

What matters with your 401-k isn't how much it is worth right now, its when you go to use it that matters. Or to use the words of a co-worker in 2007, "My 401k became a 201k."

 

[Hepar]

I see a lot of fortune tellers here....

Has the dollar gone down in value since the tax plan approval? Has stocks gone down?

Is this the first time we used borrowed money?

Was the former tax plan not running on borrowed money as well...and made our economy WORST? Wasn’t the former tax plan made it prohibitive for business to invest in USA? Why did Apple store all their cash overseas?

Why not wait and see before we condemn it to hell?

Yeah, you're right. If only we had several past similar decisions to base it on...

 

[hikenbike]

I see a lot of fortune tellers here....



Has the dollar gone down in value since the tax plan approval? Has stocks gone down?



Is this the first time we used borrowed money?



Was the former tax plan not running on borrowed money as well...and made our economy WORST? Wasn’t the former tax plan made it prohibitive for business to invest in USA? Why did Apple store all their cash overseas?



Why not wait and see before we condemn it to hell?

If you think this was “worst”....

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YsDmPEeurfA

....... then it should be interesting when we experience the new level of “worst” that’s coming.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[6wheelin]

Dudeeeeee chill the F out for a sec! Even if I disclosed my utopian gameplan, you'd have nothing but criticism anyhow. You seem far from open minded and that's why I'm poking you so badly (or what appears to be poking at least... I don't know, I'm sure as sh!t amused).

But let's address a few of your grievances since you seem so passionate about this make believe money system we're in.

1) I'm fairly well accomplished and not bitter at all, simply distrusting of men in positions of power where money can be transferred and traded for citizens' rights, freedoms and LAWS as it is currently being done every day, on every political stage. (See house of cards via Netflix, that's where I get my facts at least)

I don't answer your "factories" question because it's a useless question. It implies factories are the only source of employment which is incorrect. My father built his small business from nothing, zero help and employs 30 people. He doesn't run a factory. Target isn't a factory. Restaurants aren't factories. Airports, sandwich shops, fast food chains, grocery stores, bakeries, auto parts stores, farms, hospitals, schools, taxi companies, Google, first responders, libraries, cities, public transportation are all VERY MUCH SO NOT FACTORIES and employ a f*ck load of people. Some needing investors, some not.

2) you said earlier you don't care about taking money with you when you die and you'll be happy that your kids are provided for. So again, this is why we are in a rut. Kids coming up do not know the value of a hard days work or a dollar. And you're going to bust your ass now and make sure that your kids have it easy then right? And then they will more than likely become employed in the real world with this mentality of money is free and easy yadda yadda and keep being lazy and such.

My point is that this damn tax thing is not a fix. It's a patch on a gushing wound. The system is boned. If you really want to know what my perfect ideas are, then I need some confirmation of open mindedness since it WILL be an imaginary hypothetical idea. I'm not wasting time typing for you to keep turning your smug nose up at me because j don't agree with your ideas. That sir, is beneath me

Man I'm a dick right?

I have to go to work so I don't have a ton of time to comment. But those factory jobs that went to China and other developing nations are not coming back and believing they will is the very definition of delusional. Sure we'll see some reshoring but those wages will never be what was lost.

I have lived my entire life in a capital intensive society and I've watched the FDR programs eroded for the sake of capital growth. And he got us out of a depression thanks to Hoover's laissez faire economic (the market will correct itself) policy. I don't inherently disagree with Hoover's notion yes it will but at the cost of major human suffering. The folks who say I lived through communism and use that as a point to say capitalism is the best is absurd. No system created by mankind is the best, all of it is flawed because we are flawed. I actually like capitalism because it's what I know and I've done okay by it. But to believe that left unchecked it will create a utopian world is delusional.

I feel government has its place in helping mitigate the forces that compete for themselves. The lessons of history illustrate that there will always be those that skim the cream off the top for themselves and there will always be those without, ideally we want to strike a balance. I said ideally but nothing in this human experience leads me to believe that will ever happen. We just need to try and listen to the other side and find commonality. What has occurred politically in the United (divided) States over the last 50 years is an unwillingness to compromise (so often now a dirty word) and lobbyists have corrupted our representative process. That's right our representative in Washington are not truly looking out for our best interest.

You can call me a Liberal if you want or delusional but I believe I'm a seeker of the truth. I really don't like labels they're some limiting. I am a Human working to be a better human.

~Hugh

 

[Thai]

I have to go to work so I don't have a ton of time to comment. But those factory jobs that went to China and other developing nations are not coming back and believing they will is the very definition of delusional. Sure we'll see some reshoring but those wages will never be what was lost.

I have lived my entire life in a capital intensive society and I've watched the FDR programs eroded for the sake of capital growth. And he got us out of a depression thanks to Hoover's laissez faire economic (the market will correct itself) policy. I don't inherently disagree with Hoover's notion yes it will but at the cost of major human suffering. The folks who say I lived through communism and use that as a point to say capitalism is the best is absurd. No system created by mankind is the best, all of it is flawed because we are flawed. I actually like capitalism because it's what I know and I've done okay by it. But to believe that left unchecked it will create a utopian world is delusional.

I feel government has its place in helping mitigate the forces that compete for themselves. The lessons of history illustrate that there will always be those that skim the cream off the top for themselves and there will always be those without, ideally we want to strike a balance. I said ideally but nothing in this human experience leads me to believe that will ever happen. We just need to try and listen to the other side and find commonality. What has occurred politically in the United (divided) States over the last 50 years is an unwillingness to compromise (so often now a dirty word) and lobbyists have corrupted our representative process. That's right our representative in Washington are not truly looking out for our best interest.

You can call me a Liberal if you want or delusional but I believe I'm a seeker of the truth. I really don't like labels they're some limiting. I am a Human working to be a better human.

~Hugh

Yeah I hear California budget is doing just dandy....

 

[6wheelin]

Yeah I hear California budget is doing just dandy....

Don't believe everything you hear.

Yet California continues to have folks from everywhere emigrate to California, we are a power house for employment.

We are far from ideal though. When I retire I will relocate as long as my better half agrees.6

 

[Khjphoto]

Repeal the 16th!

The Progressive Incomee Tax was the brain child of the progressive left!

In 1913 the 16th Amandment was past over Christmas Holiday, by what could be considered illegal ratification! Additionally when it was instituted it was a 1 % tax AND NEVER TO EXCEED 3% !!! Trust your government!

REPEAL THE 16th!

A tax should be a flat tax and no more then 3% - EVERYONE pays!

 

[6wheelin]

I know what's in it and I don't like it because it increases the federal debt by $1.5 - $2 Trillion.

My conservative and libertarian side is outraged that we are borrowing against the treasury just to give out a super tax give away to the richest of the rich. And I don't mean high income. I mean the rich. Those making 400,000 or more are getting a windfall with this tax deal and it's an obnoxious give away at the expense of our kids and grandkids generations.

It doesn't matter that I will personally pay less taxes. What matters most to me is that my country is borrowing a mass sum by issuing debt on the market just so the super rich pay A LOT less in taxes in coming years.

Few people will debate me on this -on the actual points- because deep down folks here know that borrowing $1.5 - $2 Trillion against your future kids America, without investing a single dollar in better schools or roads or hospitals or even the military folks claim to love so much, is not actually good for America. Folks know it is wrong and shameful to do this.

My comments are not to any one member, believe it or not. Everyone is entitled to their political thoughts and I certainly respect our right to disagree.

:bat:

Exactly.