Head Gasket - DIY

[Angella]

A friend has asked us to work on her car... it's a 94 4runner with about 130k on the clock.

The Goodyear shop she has taken it to in the past wanted $2500 for it, and then gave her a line about how only rebuilding only the top of the engine could compromise the integrity of the vehicle, even though everything else looks fine. : ) The shop recommended an engine swap, and from what I'm reading the 3.0 isn't the best engine, but it's a hard worker - and she's not interested in putting more money than necessary into the car. I don't have the car yet, but plan to call MAG or another shop to see if the recall work has been done (I've read about the problem with the head gasket), before I jump into it.

The gasket kit is running around $195 locally, then $30 for each set of head bolts (2 sets). With fluids and all of the other little extras, I would think I can come in under $400 for parts. The local napa machine shop says it can totally recondition both heads for around $260 (at the worst), if needed.

So, I'm wanting some opinions... is it worth doing this work for her? And is there some great online shop to find parts and get them here quickly (places I've found are around the same prices).

Also, the shop told her she needs a new radiator... usually a simple task, but we usually work on our own cars (m3, z06, cherokee, sebring, sunfire, ranger, probe) so it's a different beast. The radiator looks like it's going to run about $170 for the part...

I'll have the haynes manual by this evening, but we need to get her car done no later than this weekend... please let me know your thoughts.

 

[Sidney]

That quote is way too high usually an honest reasonably priced mechanic who has experience in these engines would charge $500-600,always get a second,third,fourth and more opinions.
I would call your local community colleges/vocational schools and they will replace it for free if not find a friend,relative,neighbour or co-worker who like to repair cars on the side as a hobby or a favour or even trade services or buy them several cases of beer.
If that fails find a local off-road club and you will find severak people that own 4-Runners,pickups and landcruisers where those people have all of the experience and will replace your headgasket and check the cylinder head for warpage for around $300.

Sidney
Repair tv's,vcr's,home/car audio out of my home
E-mail:sidneybek(at)yahoo.com
Dartmouth,Nova Scotia
Canada
1985 Toyota 4-Runner,22R-E,W56,RN60LV-MSEK,rusted rear step/towing chrome bumper with 243 000 KM

:bash:

 

[Angella]

I'm the friend : ) We aren't close, but we've worked together for a few years...

I don't think I can do it myself for $500 parts... besides, she needs a new radiator too (priced at around $170).

I can get out with $500-$600 parts, but it's going to take my free time for half a week... and she's willing to pay a little for my time... it should come in well under a grand - the shop wanted $1100 just for the labor. When we picked it up yesterday, they asked if we were the one's putting the new engine in for her - when we said 'no, we are going to fix the one in there' they told us 'good luck with that' in a rather sarcastic way... I don't think her car will be going back there for wiper blade replacements ever again.

 

[Sidney]

Angella head gaskets only cost around $20-50, an OEM brass radiator can be found at:

http://www.performanceradiator.com

for $174 not like those cheap plastic ones as the above business sells them to many Toyota dealerships.I just remembered that Toyota has a headgasket recall on that engine so see the actual service recall bulletins below and I suggest that you call Goodyear Head Office and file a complaint about one of their locations and keep us posted:

22 Toyota headgasket & oil sludge recall sites:

http://www.babcox.com/editorial/ic/ic110028.htm
http://www.the-summit-group.com/rec/4x4/toyota.html (3.0L,V6,headgasket recall)
http://home.att.net/~ccatanese/ford/toyota_warranx.htm (3.0L,V6,headgasket recall)
http://home.off-road.com/~kemanuel/V6-HG.htm
http://www.geocities.com/brian894x4/v6headgasketrecall.html (3.0L,V6,headgasket recall)
http://www.showmesome.info/hilux/info/recall.htm
http://www.off-road.com/toyota/4runner/topqs.html
http://www.alldata.com/recall/make/Toyota_Truck.html
http://www.alldata.com/TSB/60/94601650.html
http://www.yotarepair.com/Campaigns.html (3.4L,V6,headgasket recall)
http://home.off-road.com/~bibelheimer/3.4v6_headgasket.html (3.4L,V6,headgasket recall)
http://www.jasperengines.com/pdf/5SFECoolantLeaksTB.pdf
http://www.lemonaidcars.com/secret_warranties.htm
http://www.nordicgroup.us/oil.htm#Toyota Sludge
http://www.toyota.com/about/news/product/2002/04/03-1-consumer.html
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2002/04/04/toyota-sludge.htm
http://www.petitiononline.com/TMC2003/petition.html
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/TSBScans/sb621323.pdf
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/TSBScans/sb628694.pdf
http://groups.msn.com/ToyotaOwnersUniteforResolution/headgaskettsb.msnw
http://groups.msn.com/ToyotaOwnersUniteforResolution/headgaskets.msnw
http://www.babcox.com/editorial/ic/ic100052.htm

The best brand of aftermarket timing chain parts to use on the 20R & 22R series Toyota motors are:

http://www.engnbldr.com/ToyotaHotlicks.htm
http://www.22r.biz/
http://www.rpmrons.com/toyotatiming.html
http://www.npr-america.com/index.htm
http://www.autotoyotaparts.com/toyota-truck-parts.html
http://www.toyota-engine-parts.com/
http://www.europeanautomotive.com

and if you choose to buy from Toyota these places have the best prices in the USA & probably the whole world:

http://www.1sttoyotaparts.com/part_number.html (10% shipping)
http://www.toyotadiscountparts.com (free shipping with $100 & up)
http://www.Toyotaparts4U.com
http://www.toyotaofplano.com

Sidney
Repair tv's,vcr's,home/car audio out of my home
E-mail:sidneybek(at)yahoo.com
Dartmouth,Nova Scotia
Canada
1985 Toyota 4-Runner,22R-E,W56,RN60LV-MSEK,rusted rear step/towing chrome bumper with 243 000 KM

 

[Angella]

thanks so much for the info! from what I've read on this forum, you are always providing such great links. : )

Based on your recommendation, I called around and found a local place that specializes in radiators... they can offer an oem brass for $165 + tax (darn close in price).

We are actually doing the entire gasket kit - I looked in up on one of those sites, and it's showing about $50 for the head gasket, and $217 for the entire kit (we are doing the entire kit... I figure might as well). It'll cost me an extra $25 to get it locally (tough call - for that it might be worth getting it locally just in case there's a problem... we need this car on the road asap).

I'm not seeing the head bolts on these sites... is it considered 'ok' to use the bolts from a local auto zone ($30 per set, needs 2 sets). Or do they even need to be replaced? They are running $6.97 each (x16!!!) if I buy the oem bolts...

 

[Sidney]

Angella head bolts are seldom replaced but usually re-used,before installing them back in I suggest that you clean both the threads on the bolts as well as the threads on the block.Also spray some lube on the threads prior to installing and insert the bolts by hand several times to make sure they are snug.

Sidney
Repair tv's,vcr's,home/car audio out of my home
E-mail:sidneybek(at)yahoo.com
Dartmouth,Nova Scotia
Canada
1985 Toyota 4-Runner,22R-E,W56,RN60LV-MSEK,rusted rear step/towing chrome bumper with 243 000 KM
:girl:

 

[Angella]

Good idea... the last 2 cars I've replaced a head gasket on, new bolts were recommended - I'm not seeing anything like that in the haynes for this car, so I think I'll just wait and see what condition they are in.

Thank you so much, you have been a huge help!

 

[Sidney]

Angella I believe that your friend's 3VZE engine is under recall am I correct?.The haynes manual is not very technical but your local public library should have a better manual as those engines were used on some of the 1988-95 4-Runners/pickups.

Any Public Library in your area would have the Factory service manual,Haynes,Chiltons,Mitchells,Clymers,Bentley and Toyota repair books.

There is also free AutoZone service manuals at:

http://www1.autozone.com/servlet/UiBroker?
ForwardPage=/az/repair_info/repair_guide/repair_guide.jsp

For scanned pages of factory service manuals for other engines:

http://www.brian894x4.com/Scannedmanual.html
http://www.showmesome.info/hilux/info/manuals/1KZ-TE
http://www.toyotasurf.asn.au/techsite/downloads.htm
http://toyoefi.freeyellow.com/manual.html
http://www.grubinski.com/grubinski/manuals.html
http://www.hotrodder.com/kwkride/tech.html
http://www.autoshop101.com
http://www.mtv411.com/sitemap.htm
2003 Toyota Tacoma Factory Service Manual:
http://www.junglecode.com/toyota/tacoma/2003_fsm/

FSM (factory service manual)can be acquired in several ways:

Toyota Material Distribution Center
750 West Victoria St
Rancho Dominguez/Compton,CA 90220-5538
USA
Ph:1-800-622-2033 (outside CA)(M-F: 7-5 PST)
Ph:1-800-443-7656 (inside CA)
Ph:1-310-818-4630 (in or outside CA)
Speak to Beverly or Deloris
http://techinfo.toyota.com/public/main/mdc.html
http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/FSM.shtml

1)buy a used one off e-bay
2)some Toyota dealerships may give you one or sell it for $10-20 (used) as most Toyota dealerships don't repair many old Toyotas and no longer need the service manual
3)some public libraries sell their old books as they are not in demand any longer
4)some free buy & sell classified papers,websites and bulletin boards may have some used ones for sale
5)some junk yards may have one laying around
6)some Toyota specialty garages may have one laying around and no longer use it as the vehicle may be too old and those mechanics probably have so much experience that they could publish their own factory service manual with corrections and "real world repair tips"
7)if someone has the FSM maybe they could scan all of the pages and post it on a site for all of us to download or view.

Sidney
Repair tv's,vcr's,home/car audio out of my home
E-mail:sidneybek(at)yahoo.com
Dartmouth,Nova Scotia
Canada
1985 Toyota 4-Runner,22R-E,W56,RN60LV-MSEK,rusted rear step/towing chrome bumper with 243 000 KM
:awais:

 

[Angella]

It looks like this vin was outside the recall range (by are pretty large #)

I like using chilton's, and I have one for each of our other cars.

The links look very helpful - I'm sure I'll be referring to them when the time comes. : ) As for our public lib, I already pulled some copies from some books, but our local libs don't allow you to pull any of the auto repair books (only there for reference).

 

[Angella]

Sidney -

Any idea what I can use for Toyota speciality tool # SST 09278-54012 or equiv.? It's to hold the camshaft sprockets while removing them...

 

[Sidney]

Sidney -

Any idea what I can use for Toyota speciality tool # SST 09278-54012 or equiv.? It's to hold the camshaft sprockets while removing them...

http://www.otctools.com/

The only other alternative I have is many auto parts stores like maybe AutoZone,PepBoys,NAPA may have a "Loan A Tool Program" where you put a deposit down and borrow the tool for a day.

Sidney
Repairs tv's,vcr's,home/car audio out of my home
E-mail:[email protected]
Dartmouth,Nova Scotia
Canada
1985 Toyota 4-Runner,22R-E,W56,RN60LV-MSEK,rusted rear step/towing chrome bumper with 243 000 KM

 

[Angella]

eh, the tool at auto zone doesn't fit this... and there's no way I'm buying a speciality tool if I don't need to. I found a site showing a way to get it off very carefully with 2 people. : )

BTW - anyone want to see what a 1 month old timing belt looks like when one of the camshaft has been installed backwards!! Yeah, I'm thinking I might call goodyear now... half the 'unnecessary' bolts were missing (ex. only 2 of 6 fan shroud bolts were there), and we found an 18" screwdriver wedged in front of the radiator. The radiator is held together with jbweld when it was obviously well beyond that (no wonder it blew), and the upper coolant intake had make a gasket junk (improperly used) in place of a proper 38 cent gasket.

I can't blame the shop for this one, but there is oil coming out of the air intake : ) This car was in pretty bad shape... can't wait to get the head off and see how bad it is. : (

 

[Sidney]

Angella I just found a site showing how to replace the belts on 3VZE engine used on some of the 1988-95 4-Runners/pickups:

http://www.off-road.com/toyota/tech/v6tbelt/index.html

Sidney
Repairs tv's,vcr's,home/car audio out of my home
E-mail:[email protected]
Dartmouth,Nova Scotia
Canada
1985 Toyota 4-Runner,22R-E,W56,RN60LV-MSEK,rusted rear step/towing chrome bumper with 243 000 KM

 

[jhinderliter]

those head bolts arent recommended replacement...usually if you have to replace them they tell you when you buy the head set... you can use a simple strap wrench to hold the cam gears..if you have access to an impact wrench just spin the retaining bolt out and the cam gear will come right off...but you really shouldnt have to remove them if you are just doing a head gasket..

 

[Angella]

wow - that strap idea would have been great : ) We ended up using deep sockets on the bolts (screws) behind the sprockets.

We are taking everything apart to do an entire gasket kit, and to have everthing tested.

This is definitely the worst engine I've had to tear down. This car has been a real pain. Things are just so close together. I'm wishing now we had pulled the engine, instead of doing this in the car... : )

The machine shop should have the heads done by tomorrow... and we can start putting this thing back together. If anyone has any helpful hints, please let me know. : )

 

[jhinderliter]

go ahead and do the water pump and t-stat while you are in there...also a good time to do cap,rotor,wires and plugs...
another technique i use.. when you get the timing belt on..go ahead and slap the bat in it and start it (dont run for extended periods due to no coolant)...make sure it revs up clean and runs like it should..just to verify the timing belt is lined up correctly..it will save you some time if you are off a tooth and have to readjust..
good luck

 

[Angella]

the timing belt idea sounds great - thank you.

goodyear replaced the tstat, waterpump, and all belts a month ago. While I've already determined that the shop is half the reason this happened, I think they really did replace these (I pulled the tstat and threw it in water on the stove to double check it, and we've checked all bolts, etc.)

 

[Angella]

oh yeah, plug wires and cap look brand new, and the plugs are a duh with the condition this is in : ) My friend dropped nearly a grand at goodyear for this other stuff, with the head problems appearing less than a month later (did I tell you guys that the starter was barely on?!) I can't help but think that what they (goodyear) screwed up contributed to the engine running harder (timing was off, camshaft sprocket on backwards, etc.) and caused this ticking time bomb to blow a little earlier than it might have.

 

[Angella]

any thoughts on a broken knock sensor? : )

It was coroded pretty badly - broken in 2 much more easily than usual... I've heard of people *trying* to glue / jbweld them back together... and suggestions on the adhesive? : )


I'm thinking about trying to stick it in there with something - $155 locally to replace the sensor alone, and all of those useful sites sidney gave me don't seem to have it.

 

[Angella]

well, everythings done (had to basically rebuild the starter since the shop left it barely attached - the wires were nearly all pulled out...)

We bought a new radiator... but I think it's the 3 row because it's a little too thick. Any ideas on how to install this? If I remove the fan shroud, it will almost fit... but the lower outlet is getting caught up on the power steering lines down there... I'm sure others have done this - what's the recommended method, short of using a pry bar on the power steering rack : )