head/gasket fail @ 199,840 - now what?

[BrianSD_42]

Almost made it to 200,000!


Hi,

My Thursday:

Driving around town and engine starts to run a bit rough. When I stop it is really running rough. 10 mins later I get a constant CEL. I drive over to the shop I take my truck to and about 2 hours later get the bad news.

My #3 CYL is randomly missing; it has coolant in it; all carbon is gone.

The engine never got hot; I haven't driven over 2,000 rpm; the oil is full; tranny fluid is full; coolant is full.

On Monday I am going back to the shop to get it fixed and I have to decide following after they open it up:

1) replace both heads with new heads (~$450 per head in parts)
2) refurbish both heads and re-install (~$250 per head in parts)
3) fix just the gasket if possible
4) some other fix

My truck (also in signature)
97 4x4 w/ e-locker @ 199,840 miles. Everything on this truck ran great until this happened. Yesterday it had no problems, no symptoms, ran like a dream. It seems to me this just came out of nowhere. I have taken really great care of the truck since I got at 68,000.

I want to fix it, I don't really have any other choice. I already set aside some cash for a new daily driver, I guess I am going to have to use that.

One thing I am considering is if I do replace both heads and the top of the engine is already disassembled, maybe now would be a good time to swap out the headers for a set of Doug Thorley. My build thread is below, this would just be another in a long line of mods.

:rockthrow:

FYI see ...

Cylinder Head & Gasket DIY Procedure - Toyota 5VZ-FE - Part 1:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voLBRDZL9fE

Links to subsequent parts 2-6 should be visible...

 

[t4r4life]

man that sucks i hope it never hapeens to anyone, but if i was just me i'd reserface both head and replace with new gasket

 

[YotaZach85]

:iagree: Get the heads checked out and throw some gaskets at it.

 

[Diagram14]

Dont make a decision about new heads until the old ones are checked out. The only thing that you should need to do to the heads is mill the bottom and maybe replace the valve stem seals, that service should run you the $250 total, if your mechanic tries to get you to replace the actual valves make him show them to you and explain way. They should just need a little buffing . No point in repairing a head gasket, Im actually not sure Ive ever heard of being able to do that. Replace the gaskets with the Toyota HGs. A majority of the replacement head gaskets youre going to find have the same lower layer graphite that is probably what failed you and has since been redesigned by Toyota. That $250 per head is BS.

 

[BrianSD_42]

I see what you mean about the heads being redone.

my question is this: if I want the truck to last another 100k, why not just buy new heads.

the real thing that will cost here is all the labor. I dont want to go with refurb or resurfaced heads if they are just going to fail in 60k. that is what I am pondering.

I will know more once they tear it open on mon. not worried about the mechanic. They are honest, I have been going there for years.

 

[PW5STAR]

No even though I'm new to the Toyota scene I have been around the race scene for a long time and if you have them rebuilt then you will be just fine.
No need to buy new heads, I would have the heads surfaced, have a angle valve job done, check the guides and have new valve stem seals installed and check the spring tension. If you have all that done then you should have no issues or worries for another 200,000 miles :bigok:

 

[attitudeofgratitud]

Get the heads checked. I doubt they need resurfaced. Have them replace the valve seals and check valve adjustment if you feel they're competent to do so. Don't go the reman head route. It's hard to tell just how much they peeled off the head when they resurfaced it. I've rarely seen any shop that sets the valve adjustment when swapping to a reman head. They just usually move everything right over in hopes it'll be alright.
I'm sure yours will be fine. I just put new head gaskets on a 98 4runner with 400k on it. And the customer was no maintenance fanatic. I just used a head set and put a new knock wire on it.

 

[ChildrenOfBodom]

DON'T GIVE UP, PUSH IT THE NEXT 160 MILES!

I agree with the others, get the heads checked. If all is well, gaskets!

 

[t4r4life]

a resurfaced head is pretty much like a new one because the part that fails is always the bottom part once that is gone its gonna be just like new

 

[stanleybb50]

Definately worth fixing.

On a side note, did you say you never take it over 2,000 rpms? You gotta give that puppy a workout before she let's herself go!


Sent from my LS670 using Tapatalk

 

[brian2sun]

You need to wait to make your decision about the heads until they are off and you or a tech can inspect them. For all you know right now, the problem could be a cracked head and not a head gasket (the symptoms can be identical). If that's the case, your question is already answered - you'll have to get new (or used/reman) heads.

If it is the head gasket and the heads are fine, then check the valves and replace the seals like attitudeofgratitud said and slap some new gaskets in there. However, I disagree about not resurfacing your heads. You are taking a bigger chance of having another HG blow down the road if they are not resurfaced.

 

[J-money$$$]

Almost made it to 200,000!

; I haven't driven over 2,000 rpm;

theres your problem. sometimes you have to rev it up \ well i would just get it checked first then make your decision. and maybe you can just to the gasket

 

[A.Wilson013]

I am with COB.

Go drive 160 miles. Don't give up on the poor thing.

I drove for 6 months, about 2000 miles without a timing chain guide on my 87... Just saying... Granted my engine sounded like I replaced the oil with marbles, but I was NOT going to let it miss out on hitting 290k. And I had another engine sitting in my garage...

 

[BrianSD_42]

thanks for all the comments.

just to clarify:

yes I have driven over 2,000 rpm. lol
I just kept it under 2k for the 5 mile drive to the shop. That is what I meant.

I haven't made any decisions, I will find out more once it is taken apart.

I would like some info - what do you guys think I should do if they are cracked?

I would say if there is any serious chance of a failure in next 100,000k, I am inclined to just replace them now while it is all disassembled. since I wont be doing the engine work this is likely 10-12 hr at $75/hr. pretty pricey and I dont want to do it at 260,000 again.

but I really wont know my options till Mon.

I'll keep everyone posted.

 

[t4r4life]

thanks for all the comments.

just to clarify:

yes I have driven over 2,000 rpm. lol
I just kept it under 2k for the 5 mile drive to the shop. That is what I meant.
:lol:

I would say if there is any serious chance of a failure in next 100,000k, I am inclined to just replace them now while it is all disassembled. since I wont be doing the engine work this is likely 10-12 hr at $75/hr. pretty pricey and I dont want to do it at 260,000 again.

but I really wont know my options till Mon.

I'll keep everyone posted.

if they are cracked then replace them, no one likes a crackhead

 

[49Runner]

Just did this about 3k ago.

I doubt your heads are damaged but I would definitely have them rebuilt and surfaced. If you are concerned about getting the most out of the labor you are going to be charged I would replace the water pump and timing belt since the belt has to come off anyways.

I felt the same as you so while I had it apart I replaced everything that could require replacing over the next 100+k.

 

[trulli3300]

Coincidence?

My gasket went the same way. I stopped at a light and it ran rough. I pulled over to see what it was but there was nothing very apparent. Then I tried to limp home and saw the plume of vapor coming out of my exhaust pipe. I went on a month-long vacation and now I'm back. How much should this cost if it is as simple as a gasket and how much if it is more complicated. I don't have any trustworthy shops here in the motor city(detroit) area so I'm thinking "dealership".

 

[BrianSD_42]

ohh man I have no idea where you can get it done in Detroit. Good luck though. I will update this thread throughout the week.

I don't notice anything coming out of my exhaust but I only ran it briefly that afternoon and won't run it until Monday to get to the shop.

I am kind of torn, need an opinion. The shop guys told me on Thursday it was ok to drive home (10 miles) at low low rpms and then drive back on Monday so I drove it home and parked it. My Dad says that if I drive it even a little bit I risk getting coolant in my oil, therefore I should tow it the ten miles on Monday ($$). I figure they will drain all the oil when the do the engine work but am curious if the hive mind agrees with him about the coolant poisoning the oil rapidly. The oil looked great and coolant is still full.

:lookout:

 

[PW5STAR]

I have a few more things to input here, some I have already posted on the last page but here it goes again.
Step one, have them pull heads and inspect...
Step two, if heads need freshened up then do so...
I would highly recommend valve seals, RE SURFACE THE HEADS NO MATTER WHAT. Check the valve's and see if they even show much wear (might need a lap job if nothing else and might not need that but good to inspect anyhow).

There is a few reasons to have the heads resurfaced contrary to what others might think. Most aren't aware but when you unbolt an aluminum head you are supposed to start at the last bolt on the torque sequence and work your way back to the #1 head bolt.
There can be minor imperfections in the head surface than can possibly affect the mating surface when re installing the heads. I recommend this to anybody!!!
Now as far as a crack in the head....I'm sorry but if its aluminum and cracked then it is 100% reparable no matter what anybody says. Even a cast iron head can be fixed but a cast iron head would have to be heated up to a glowing red temperature and pour cast on the damaged area and machine to finish the area properly.

I know I haven't been on this site to long but I have been working and building race cars since I was 15 and I'm going to 32 in a few weeks. I just had a set of AFR165 heads on my 88 Mustang LX coupe repaired a few months back. I don't claim to be a know it all or try to get on here and disrespect anyone on the forum but I am somewhat knowledgeable on head work and repairs.
Just wait and see Monday what your mechanic has to say and go from there. If it were me I say fix em and fix em right and do it right the first time and don't cheap it off or cut any corners.

As far as antifreeze in the oil...YES that is really bad for any bearings in the motor period. It don't take a lot time or antifreeze to cause catastrophic failure to bearings.

 

[024RunnerSE]

Dude, I come from the Toyota Supra/Cressida scene and we blow head gaskets on the infamous 7M motors all day long. I've driven my own 7M cars for literally a year with BHG blown Head gasket, and do a head gasket job and its cured. If your **** starts to overheat a lot, thats when I'd be worried. Just put some sealant crap in your radiator and it'll push it in the gasket part where it's leaking and you can buy yourself a lot of time.

When you start losing a lot of coolant is when you should worry about the condition of your rod bearings. You start getting a lot of antifreeze in your bottom end, that **** will eat up your bearings. But for now, I wouldn't worry about it. I drove my 2nd Gen 4Runner for a while with BHG with a miss and everything and till this day, my friend drives it every day long trips and this is after i did the HG Repair.