head/gasket fail @ 199,840 - now what?

[brian2sun]

I agree a cracked aluminum head can be fixed. But both my heads were cracked and I was able to find 2 used heads and have them resurfaced for less than the cost of repairing both of my existing heads. I don't know if I was just lucky, but you'd have to weigh out the costs and see which is cheaper.

If the HG (or crack in the head) is only leaking coolant into the combustion chamber and not mixing with the oil, I would just drive it there. I wouldn't think there's any reason to believe it's going to start leaking in a new spot (between an oil passage and a coolant passage). Just watch the temp gauge, but you should be able to make it 10 miles to the shop no problem.

 

[PW5STAR]

I agree a cracked aluminum head can be fixed. But both my heads were cracked and I was able to find 2 used heads and have them resurfaced for less than the cost of repairing both of my existing heads. I don't know if I was just lucky, but you'd have to weigh out the costs and see which is cheaper.

If the HG (or crack in the head) is only leaking coolant into the combustion chamber and not mixing with the oil, I would just drive it there. I wouldn't think there's any reason to believe it's going to start leaking in a new spot (between an oil passage and a coolant passage). Just watch the temp gauge, but you should be able to make it 10 miles to the shop no problem.

LOL....yeah I feel ya there, I would probably do the same thing if that was the case as far as the 2 cracked heads:

 

[BrianSD_42]

@PW5STAR no worries you aren't the only one saying it. Both wrench heads at the shop advised resurfacing at a minimum. I talk to the shop owner Monday, he's very knowledgable mechanic. Until then I only know what this thread tells me.

1
Heads: I will definitely be resurfacing the heads, or getting heads no matter what. The engine will already be apart so I want to do it right. Getting new heads is probably WAY too much $$ so hopefully we can resurface them at a reputable shop.


2

"As far as antifreeze in the oil...YES that is really bad for any bearings in the motor period. It don't take a lot time or antifreeze to cause catastrophic failure to bearings."

Well I am really hoping that driving at < 2,000 RPM for 28 mi (looked up what I drove) didn't screw up any bearings or other parts due to contaminated oil. They told me it would be ok to drive home as long as I don't rev on way home or drive it over the weekend. During the drive it didn't get hot; the oil was just changed this week and both coolant and oil are still full. I assume others who have had blown head/gaskets(still tbd) have driven lightly like this without problems. I am now paranoid though and will be towing it to the shop on Monday, I already found a trailer for $50 rental.


3
RE:

check valves and valve seals.

I am assuming these are located in the head (ahhh! auto shop was 10 years ago).
Options: along with resurfacing heads, inspect the valves.

My opinion would be that if I have to start doing valves + resurfacing I will be approaching the cost point of just getting new heads right?


I found a diagram of the 5VZ-FE top end - it helped me to visualize.





:redbrick:

 

[PW5STAR]

If you had to get the heads completely rebuilt meaning: seals, surface, lap or angle valve job and labor and parts altogether I don't think your looking at over $400-500 range and I might be way over on that estimate.

 

[Baja Runner]

What shop did you take it to? $250 per head seems a bit high.

I get all my machine work done at Kenyons Machine shop in PB. I haven't had to take a 3.4L head in there yet, but usually its about $80-$120 to do a valve job, and that includes checking for cracks and resurfacing. They replace all valve seals, seats, and springs.

They have been here for ever, and my dad and my grandpa have been going to Kenyons since the 50's.

 

[BrianSD_42]

I get all my machine work done at Kenyons Machine shop in PB. I haven't had to take a 3.4L head in there yet, but usually its about $80-$120 to do a valve job, and that includes checking for cracks and resurfacing. They replace all valve seals, seats, and springs.

That shop is in Pacific Beach? It might be an option if I had taken it apart myself. Since I am paying to get it done this will probably cost me a lot more. $250 for re-manufacturing heads doesn't sound that off from what I have heard.

BajaRunner: have you done this on your 4Runner?

 

[BrianSD_42]

:repuke:

UPDATE

I got the call from the shop today. I the head that was misfiring in CYL#3 has a crack in chamber wall. They told me the other head doesn't look good either. I trust the shop, I have been going there for 5 years and it still has same owner whom I talked to.

I am going ahead and replacing both heads with JE heads which is a full head replacement from an aftermarket Japanese company. The shop owner says he has never had any problems and that he orders 6 a week on average (they have a good sized shop)

Each head is ~$500 and the labor + 2 Toyota Gasket Kits is ~$1400. So I am looking at ~ $2700 for 2 new heads. I chose this over an engine rebuild because I trust the guy and he doesn't really profit much from the parts compared to labor for a rebuild - he suggested just get new JE heads if I was able. My mechanic isn't a fan of repairing these heads, especially since where the crack is located.

An engine rebuild is about the same price but you will get after-market parts as well so even that is non-Toyota. As I have recently found out a empty Toyota head is $700-$800 and a full head with valves and cams is $2500+ in parts - not really do-able.

So I pretty much have spent all the cash I was saving for a new Daily Driver on this. I will be putting off buying a new DD until at least mid September now .

.

 

[t4r4life]

:repuke:

UPDATE

I got the call from the shop today. I the head that was misfiring in CYL#3 has a crack in chamber wall. They told me the other head doesn't look good either. I trust the shop, I have been going there for 5 years and it still has same owner whom I talked to.

I am going ahead and replacing both heads with JE heads which is a full head replacement from an aftermarket Japanese company. The shop owner says he has never had any problems and that he orders 6 a week on average (they have a good sized shop)

Each head is ~$500 and the labor + 2 Toyota Gasket Kits is ~$1400. So I am looking at ~ $2400 for 2 new heads. I chose this over an engine rebuild because I trust the guy and he doesn't really profit much from the parts compared to labor for a rebuild - he suggested just get new JE heads if I was able. My mechanic isn't a fan of repairing these heads, especially since where the crack is located.

An engine rebuild is about the same price but you will get after-market parts as well so even that is non-Toyota. As I have recently found out a empty Toyota head is $700-$800 and a full head with valves and cams is $2200 in parts - not really do-able.

So I pretty much have spent all the cash I was saving for a new Daily Driver on this. I will be putting off buying a new DD until at least mid September now .

.

that sucks bud i would look for a donor engine and drop it in vs 2400$ which to me seems ridiculous expansive

 

[BrianSD_42]

.

look for a donor engine to drop in

well you have to consider that a big chunk of the price is for taking engine apart and putting new heads on.

Even if after discovering the cracked head, I told them to toss the engine and find me a new one, that would still be very expensive. I might be able to find another engine for $2500 but what would I get? What would its history be?

In this case I am taking an engine that has never had any problems with its bottom end and replacing the top end of the engine. This engine has never been "hot" and never run on LOW or OLD oil. It will come with a warranty and I am fairly certain I will make it another 100,000 on these heads.

I definitely have much better piece of mind than ordering an engine from Japan or a pulling one from a scrap yard. From what I have seen ALMOST ALL of the engines for sale online are either rebuilds or have no (provable) history at all. I am not sure you can even prove how many miles are on the engines since the mileage is attached to the car not the engine.

Even then, the cost of a used engine + installing it would be far more than $2400.

:violin:

 

[BrianSD_42]

Final update:

Here is a pic of me towing my 4Runner to the shop last Monday. I used my Dad's 2000 GMC Yukan to tow it. The uhaul cost $60.





I am back and running smooth!

I have now had the truck back for 2 days and it is running smooth. I still haven't driven it very hard, I've been sticking to low RPMs < 3500.

I added Downey headers since the engine top was already apart. They are definitely a nice addition to the rig. I'll post more details on that in my build thread.

As I said before, I ended needing a new or refurbished head b/c of a crack in my #3 CYL. I opted to replace both heads with JE heads.

Total parts $1600 for two *new* JE heads and all Toyota gaskets.
Labor: $1100

These are two totally new heads. They are from an aftermarket company. I hope they hold up my mechanic is big into the racing scene, they build Toyota trucks for baja. He told me that JE is a good brand and I shouldn't have any problems. Only one of the heads cracked but I decided to do both. I didn't want to deal with any head issues in near future.

Now I am out of money and in some debt. I am just glad I didn't have a car payment on the truck.

:surfer:

 

[brian2sun]

Glad to hear it's running good!!

 

[stanleybb50]

Your truck looks great and you made the right call. Will definately get another 100k out of that motor (or more).

Sent from my LS670 using Tapatalk

 

[trulli3300]

Got My Truck Back Too -$1500

My problem wasn't as extensive(cracked head). It was only the head gasket or so they tell me, but the truck was running as smooth as ever before. I had it done at the dealership that I worked at for 7yrs so I kinda trust the mechanic that did it. He had been there longer than me. I had the timing belt done at the same time since I didn't do it last year with the water pump so the bill got to $1700. When I got it back it was idling high at 1600 rpm. Thats enough to cruise at 38mph so I took it back. I found out that the idle valve (it does exist) had to be replaced - $440. I hope that will be it till next year.

 

[BrianSD_42]

When I got it back it was idling high at 1600 rpm. Thats enough to cruise at 38mph so I took it back. I found out that the idle valve (it does exist) had to be replaced - $440

You might want to check the throttle cables under the hood, they can affect the idle speed.
.

 

[t4r4life]

You might want to check the throttle cables under the hood, they can affect the idle speed.
.

yep happened to me cable got pinched 2000 rpm idel put it back in its place idel at 550rpm now

 

[sal6430]

I am still looking for my runner, so I have a question. I s this common issue with the 3.4, or just a fluke things like the rods common out the bottom ends., which I have read as well. Thanks guys.

 

[t4r4life]

I am still looking for my runner, so I have a question. I s this common issue with the 3.4, or just a fluke things like the rods common out the bottom ends., which I have read as well. Thanks guys.

no i think the po ignored the truck b4 the op owned it, 5vzfe is one of the most reliable engine ever made

 

[BrianSD_42]

no i think the po ignored the truck b4 the op owned it, 5vzfe is one of the most reliable engine ever made

NO it wasnt ignored. Even the most reliable engine ever made can get a cracked head at 200,000.

1) bought my truck at 65k in 2002. the owner was a soccer mom in La Jolla, CA, it had been taken to the dealer every service period, it was kept in a garage instead of driveway.

2) I had the vehicle serviced for everything by a Toyota shop and I changed the oil every 5k, no exceptions.

3) it ran PERFECT up until 199,840 mi, then it started misfiring due to the head.

4) this is fairly common between 175,000 and 250,000 even on trucks that have been maintained.

5) my truck was babied, I went offroad 2-3 times per year and never neglected it. I had been complemented as recently as 2 months before the failure on how quiet the engine was "like a lexus, not a truck"

6) this can happen to you but hopefully it doesnt. most people choose a rebuild, I went with 2 new heads by JE. Now the truck runs great again and is whisper quiet.
.

 

[Sprungmonkey]

need writeup on cylinder head gasket replacement

lot's of good infor here.

Doe's anyone here have a writeup on cylinder head replacement?

cylinder head gasket instructions these instructions don't have images
like a detailed write doe's

http://www.fme-cat.com/Docs/1425.pdf
cylinder head gasket X 2 will probablley opt.
to only repair the damaged gasket.

More Information for FEL-PRO 9227PT1

cylinder head bolts no direct link
look here
RockAuto Parts Catalog

valve stem seals
More Information for VICTOR REINZ B45549

plus machining heads (milling) possible porting.

 

[FROGrunner]

Final update:

Here is a pic of me towing my 4Runner to the shop last Monday. I used my Dad's 2000 GMC Yukan to tow it. The uhaul cost $60.





I am back and running smooth!

I have now had the truck back for 2 days and it is running smooth. I still haven't driven it very hard, I've been sticking to low RPMs < 3500.

I added Downey headers since the engine top was already apart. They are definitely a nice addition to the rig. I'll post more details on that in my build thread.

As I said before, I ended needing a new or refurbished head b/c of a crack in my #3 CYL. I opted to replace both heads with JE heads.

Total parts $1600 for two *new* JE heads and all Toyota gaskets.
Labor: $1100

These are two totally new heads. They are from an aftermarket company. I hope they hold up my mechanic is big into the racing scene, they build Toyota trucks for baja. He told me that JE is a good brand and I shouldn't have any problems. Only one of the heads cracked but I decided to do both. I didn't want to deal with any head issues in near future.

Now I am out of money and in some debt. I am just glad I didn't have a car payment on the truck.

:surfer:

you live in encinitas? Thats where i work lol