Head Gasket

[thebrandon]

My 4runner is starting to show signs of a leaking head gasket. On start up there is a significant amount of white smoke, and I noticed my coolant reservoir did not fill up like it usually does when things heated up. I had to add about a 5th of a gallon back in to bring me back up to the full mark. I think I heard bubbles coming into the reservoir after shutting the motor off as well.

I'm at a bit of a crossroads of what to do. I love the truck, but lately it has been a huge money pit for me. On top of this head gasket issue, I just recently had the rear ring and pinion replaced along with all the pinion seals and bearings, and my rack and pinion appears to be giving way again...All very expensive things, and with the exception of the rack, things I don't have the time, skills, or equipment to do myself.

What have you all paid to have the head gasket replaced? Is there a way to diagnose which side is leaking without a CEL, or should both sides be replaced?

Thank you for your input.

 

[LittleCaesar]

Rent a coolant pressure test kit available from most auto stores, pump to 15 psi, and see if the pressure drops over 10 minutes or so.

Most will say to fix the head gasket or put in another used engine but if the replacement costs are adding up fast, and you need it as a DD, then it may be time to part ways with it.

 

[amalik]

I didn't get a new ring and pinion setup, but I recently got all new bearings in the rear differential as well as a new rear pinion seal. I kind of feel your pain on that job -- I paid 5 or 6 labor hours for it.

My rear main seal is also leaking, but I'm not too worried about it because of the small amount it leaks between oil changes. That job requires pulling the engine or the transmission.

Sometimes, a 3rd gen is that type of thing you hate and love at the same time. It comes with the territory of having a 13-19 year old vehicle. Absolutely love it when all is good. But when things are bad... GRR!

What would you get in its place? I haven't seen a decent 4th gen under $10-12k in CO (I don't imagine AZ is really that different?).. so unless you are thinking of another 3rd...? A much smaller repair cost would go into a rebuild head/head gasket/maybe an engine swap or buying another 3rd.

First things first though -- get more data on your HG issue -- oil in coolant? coolant in oil? air in coolant? what LC said above on the pressure test, etc.

 

[amalik]

Rent a coolant pressure test kit available from most auto stores, pump to 15 psi, and see if the pressure drops over 10 minutes or so.

Most will say to fix the head gasket or put in another used engine but if the replacement costs are adding up fast, and you need it as a DD, then it may be time to part ways with it.

OP -- Not trying to steal your thread --

LC -- I always see it advised to look at another engine when looking at a HG issue (In addition to rebuilt heads...) -- but I've always wondered -- if you had rebuilt heads and a new HG -- shouldn't you just test compression/test for smoke/air in the coolant/etc etc after that instead of replacing the engine? If a bad HG was the cause of the low compression, in theory the engine should be fine at that point......?

 

[Panda96]

HG, water pump, seals etc is gonna be 1300-1600. And I wouldn't drive it too much with a bad HG....can do some serious damage and end up costing yourself a lot more $$$.

 

[Doc2012]

HG, water pump, seals etc is gonna be 1300-1600. And I wouldn't drive it too much with a bad HG....can do some serious damage and end up costing yourself a lot more $$$.

Maybe if you have someone else do it for you.......

Amazon.com: TBK Timing Belt Kit Toyota 4 Runner 1996 to 2002 3.4L 5VZFE V6: Automotive

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000C2GC4O/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Amazon.com: Fel-Pro ES72168 Gasket: Automotive

About 600 bucks in parts, and it's not that bad of a job to do it.

I've got the FSM that I can send you if needed.

It took me and a buddy of mine a day to do it, but that was in the middle of the summer.


Getting the heads checked is a good idea. Call a local machine shop and see how much they charge to check them.

It's really not that bad of a job to do.

 

[Doc2012]

HG, water pump, seals etc is gonna be 1300-1600. And I wouldn't drive it too much with a bad HG....can do some serious damage and end up costing yourself a lot more $$$.

Maybe if you have someone else do it for you.......

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0039VMSCU/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000C2GC4O/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000C2E90I/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

About 600 bucks in parts, and it's not that bad of a job to do it.

I've got the FSM that I can send you if needed.

It took me and a buddy of mine a day to do it, but that was in the middle of the summer.


Getting the heads checked is a good idea. Call a local machine shop and see how much they charge to check them.

It's really not that bad of a job to do.

 

[LittleCaesar]

Any coolant that reaches areas not designed for it to be there spells trouble. Coolant mixing with metal is never good.

Some members have had head gaskets go, replace them and be Ok. Others have only gotten a good resolution come to them by replacing the engine.

If any coolant leak is suspected, the best course of action IMHO is to park the auto immediately and prepare for repairs.

 

[BrianSD_42]

That sucks to hear man.

How many miles?

 

[ajonesnv]

I would do the job. I actually will be replacing my heads here soon, so I can tell you how it goes.

Ive done the timing belt and valve covers, getting that deep into the engine is pretty straight forward if you have the time.

Engine replace or HG, either way a shop will kill you in labor, so it would be in your interest to get you hands a little dirty.

 

[amalik]

I would do the job. I actually will be replacing my heads here soon, so I can tell you how it goes.

Ive done the timing belt and valve covers, getting that deep into the engine is pretty straight forward if you have the time.

Engine replace or HG, either way a shop will kill you in labor, so it would be in your interest to get you hands a little dirty.

Are you going to get them machined? Checked for cracks etc?

 

[ajonesnv]

I bought two good heads from a lower milage engine. Two valves seats on my pass side have compressed and are way out of spec. It would be more expensive to repair the valves due to having to have a shop do it.

I did get the newer heads checked to make sure they are good. Should end up only running me 300.00 including the heads. The heads that are coming off are good too, just those two bad valves.

 

[thebrandon]

My truck only has 169k on it. I was heart broken and surprised to see it showing signs of a bad head gasket already. I can get all the parts I need for under $1000 I'm pretty sure including loaded heads that I would just need to bolt on. I am going to do a couple tests first to confirm that the head gasket is leaking, but I'm 99% sure that it has developed a small leak, that can only get worse and ruin things the more I drive it. It is parked for now.

I just did the timing/water pump/valve cover gaskets etc a few months ago, so I think I can re-use much of the existing timing components if I'm not mistaken. The tensioner shouldn't be too much of an issue either if I can get it re-compressed and find a pin to put in there.

I just need to look into this a little more to see if it is a job I can confidently do. I have never done a head gasket before. The furthest I have ripped into my motor is the timing belt and valve covers.

 

[rcrick]

Hoping to inspire confidence. I swapped the heads on my runner and prior to that the deepest I had gone was a Timing belt/water pump change.

Granted, it did take me much much longer than Doc2012 and his friend. I worked on it off and on for quite a few weeks. Although I didn't order the rebuilt heads until the old heads had been removed and then once the new heads arrived I had to send one back, that all took extra time. I could have probably knocked it out in a week if I had started with all the parts I needed but I just took my time and determined which parts needed to be replaced as I went along.

The single most valuable piece of advice that I wish I had received prior to starting this job was the importance of installing the "service bolt" in the split gear on the exhaust cams before you take the cam out of the head. Also, it would have been helpful to know that the valve cover bolt as well as the 3 bolts that hold the spark plug coils will all work as a "service bolt" to hold the preload on the exhaust cam drive split gear.

The machine shop that i ordered my heads from sent me this evergreen gasket set. They told me I was getting a MLS head gasket so I let them send me the kit, when it arrived I discovered that it was not a MLS gasket. The kit that I received can be bought for $54 on amazon:
Amazon.com: Evergreen HS2034 95-04 Toyota 4Runner Tacoma Tundra 3.4L DOHC 5VZFE Head Gasket Set: Automotive

I supplemented the above kit with two OEM Head Gaskets from Camelback Toyota. They ran about $60 total. So... for a little over $100 you can get all new top end gaskets and have the actual Toyota HG.

 

[thebrandon]

I am going to be doing a block test/combustion gas test on the cooling system Tuesday. This should confirm if I have a leak or not.

If I do have a leak, I am going to tackle this myself. I feel pretty confident that I can get everything done.

On top of that, I forgot that one of my best friends used to be a Toyota tech who did this every day up until a couple months ago when he switched to the fire department. He reached out to me after he heard my wife and his wife talking. I feel confident with my abilities, and we will be able to take care of this in a day no problem as long as we don't run into any hick ups.

I appreciate all the feedback and motivation. I'll be sure to post some pictures and provide updates in my build thread on what is going on.

On a side note, I talked to a couple places in town. The Toyota dealership said to do the job it is roughly $1400-1500 before taxes. Another place qouted me $900 for labor + parts. After pricing everything out, and with the supplies I already have I think I can get everything including the loaded heads for around $800-900.

Wish me luck!

 

[amalik]

Hoping to inspire confidence. I swapped the heads on my runner and prior to that the deepest I had gone was a Timing belt/water pump change.

Granted, it did take me much much longer than Doc2012 and his friend. I worked on it off and on for quite a few weeks. Although I didn't order the rebuilt heads until the old heads had been removed and then once the new heads arrived I had to send one back, that all took extra time. I could have probably knocked it out in a week if I had started with all the parts I needed but I just took my time and determined which parts needed to be replaced as I went along.

The single most valuable piece of advice that I wish I had received prior to starting this job was the importance of installing the "service bolt" in the split gear on the exhaust cams before you take the cam out of the head. Also, it would have been helpful to know that the valve cover bolt as well as the 3 bolts that hold the spark plug coils will all work as a "service bolt" to hold the preload on the exhaust cam drive split gear.

The machine shop that i ordered my heads from sent me this evergreen gasket set. They told me I was getting a MLS head gasket so I let them send me the kit, when it arrived I discovered that it was not a MLS gasket. The kit that I received can be bought for $54 on amazon:
Amazon.com: Evergreen HS2034 95-04 Toyota 4Runner Tacoma Tundra 3.4L DOHC 5VZFE Head Gasket Set: Automotive

I supplemented the above kit with two OEM Head Gaskets from Camelback Toyota. They ran about $60 total. So... for a little over $100 you can get all new top end gaskets and have the actual Toyota HG.

Nothing against Evergreen -- Never heard of them... but -- it would be really nice if Toyota made a HG kit that was easily purchasable. I haven't seen one.

 

[rcrick]

Nothing against Evergreen -- Never heard of them... but -- it would be really nice if Toyota made a HG kit that was easily purchasable. I haven't seen one.

Yeah I had never heard of them either. Most of it looked ok. The spark plug tube seals for the valve covers really sucked pretty hard but I was able to get them to work. Most of those gaskets are low risk because they really aren't hard to change out.

But I would never risk using anything but that heavy duty OEM metal head gasket.