Hell of a time getting proper alignment / SPC UCA's

[Brandonium]

Hey all,

So far I have been to 3 alignment shops and every time I speak to someone on the phone and tell them that I have custom adjustable UCA's they say no problem but whenever I get it back they only adjust toe & camber and leave caster greyed out. I cannot even get them to give me a freaking caster # but I know that it is too low due to how it tracks down the road. I have a 3/2 lift and am having zero luck getting a shop to listen to me when I ask for specific caster numbers.

What are many of you doing to get proper alignments after a lift? I am tempted to mark my UCA's for their current camber settings and just go at working out caster myself as I am sick of this BS. Anyone out there dial in their caster on their own?

 

[rdruss]

I've played with my SPC's a lot, but I didn't lift mine as much as you did, only a 1" spacer in front to level it. I had an alignment sheet from before I started and used the rule of thumb I've seen on how much lift effects caster and then adjusted the upper ball joint to compensate for what I thought I lost. Camber is easier as you can measure with a straight edge across the rim and a digital angle reader.
Mine drives fine but I'm ready to make another adjustment to the LCA soon, going to push it all the way out and then fix it there with the "Taco tabs" which are already installed in the center position. I don't care for the factory alignment hardware, would rather have the LCA in a fixed position and locked there. Going to remove the 1" spacer and replace with 1/2", just for something to do.
Watch some of "Tinkerer's Adventures" on youtube about the 4Runner suspension and it might help you out some.

 

[Brandonium]

I know I am currently running at the D "Neutral" setting which is +1 from? I did dial in my LCA's for max caster but the alignment shops keep changing them so I am assuming that they need to to achieve proper camber?

I've played with my SPC's a lot, but I didn't lift mine as much as you did, only a 1" spacer in front to level it. I had an alignment sheet from before I started and used the rule of thumb I've seen on how much lift effects caster and then adjusted the upper ball joint to compensate for what I thought I lost. Camber is easier as you can measure with a straight edge across the rim and a digital angle reader.
Mine drives fine but I'm ready to make another adjustment to the LCA soon, going to push it all the way out and then fix it there with the "Taco tabs" which are already installed in the center position. I don't care for the factory alignment hardware, would rather have the LCA in a fixed position and locked there. Going to remove the 1" spacer and replace with 1/2", just for something to do.
Watch some of "Tinkerer's Adventures" on youtube about the 4Runner suspension and it might help you out some.

 

[comtn4x4]

Hey all,

So far I have been to 3 alignment shops and every time I speak to someone on the phone and tell them that I have custom adjustable UCA's they say no problem but whenever I get it back they only adjust toe & camber and leave caster greyed out. I cannot even get them to give me a freaking caster # but I know that it is too low due to how it tracks down the road. I have a 3/2 lift and am having zero luck getting a shop to listen to me when I ask for specific caster numbers.

What are many of you doing to get proper alignments after a lift? I am tempted to mark my UCA's for their current camber settings and just go at working out caster myself as I am sick of this BS. Anyone out there dial in their caster on their own?

I have had this problem with getting my SPC's aligned also and this is what I have figured out. Maybe it'll work for you.
If you're not familiar I have attached the SPC instructions here:


https://www.spcalignment.com/instructions/25480-INS_WEB.pdf


I think the shop/techs aren't comfortable or don't want to do the work to disassemble the uca/coilover to move the adjustment plate.
So that being said what I've done is find a true 4x4 shop that really knows their sh*t and have them get the plate in the right place and do the alignment (if they do alignments). Most likely this is a shop that sells/installs SPC UCA's. After the plate is in the right place and the caster is where you want it to be it won't need adjusted again unless something changes with your setup (bigger tires or more lift for example). At that point a regular alignment shop can handle the basic adjustments. Or obviously you could put the plate in position yourself. However, without aligning it it's hard to be sure it's in the right position until it's reassembled.

I've had SPC's for about 9 years (2 sets) and this is what I ultimately found worked for me.



Hope this helps


Edit: I have mine in the B position and run around 5* caster

 

[Pedro367]

What degree of caster are you shooting for? Aligning lifted Toyotas is kind of a pain if they don't know what theyre doing. Tires always rub. You don't really need super high caster numbers like everyone here suggests. I just went through the same thing with mine and realized analysis paralysis was killing me. I told my shop (which I hold pretty high as they work on a lot of offroad vehicles) to do 4.5-5 degrees and they couldnt get it in spec. Dropped it down to 3-3.5, everything is in spec, and it drives beautifully.

I have JBA arms and about 2/1 lift with 265/70s, so YMMV. But, My guess is you'd be fine with more normal numbers and they'd be able to align it just fine.

 

[2021nightshade4x4]

What degree of caster are you shooting for? Aligning lifted Toyotas is kind of a pain if they don't know what theyre doing. Tires always rub. You don't really need super high caster numbers like everyone here suggests. I just went through the same thing with mine and realized analysis paralysis was killing me. I told my shop (which I hold pretty high as they work on a lot of offroad vehicles) to do 4.5-5 degrees and they couldnt get it in spec. Dropped it down to 3-3.5, everything is in spec, and it drives beautifully.

I have JBA arms and about 2/1 lift with 265/70s, so YMMV. But, My guess is you'd be fine with more normal numbers and they'd be able to align it just fine.

I agree 5.5 isn’t “necessary” to see a difference but the point remains that even OEM should be adjustable to more than +1.5. Whether drivers can articulate that as the cause of their “sloppiness” or “white knuckle” highway driving, or not, it is still a drawback affecting EVERY 4Runner with OEM suspension.


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[Brandonium]

You are right I know that 5.5 is a bit of a high shot but I cannot even get them to tell me my current values and it is a bit darty at highway speeds which based off of my other cars, especially those with low caster issues is a tell tale sign of low caster. I am at 47k so not high mileage in any way.

I agree 5.5 isn’t “necessary” to see a difference but the point remains that even OEM should be adjustable to more than +1.5. Whether drivers can articulate that as the cause of their “sloppiness” or “white knuckle” highway driving, or not, it is still a drawback affecting EVERY 4Runner with OEM suspension.


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[harper7]

The SBC's on 4runners are supposed to be set at "D" +2 for 2-3 inch lift .
It says so right in the "NOTE". That's 2.0 more caster then stock ,not 2.0 final caster. That's because you can adjust camber too if needed by sliding the ball joint in and out . Pretty sure the SPC camber setting to begin is all the way out and then in 1/4" .

I had a set on my 2010 years ago and aligned for 5-5.25 caster with no problem and set to "D". I had access to a alignment rack when I lived in Dallas so aligned them myself no problem. Somewhere back in the forum years ago I had a write-up .

The drivers side ball joint failed after 2 years so I still have them but need rebuilt. This was 12 years ago so I think they updated the ball joints after that. I went another brand and never went back. TC for the win!

As far as them not knowing how to align it n. Did you bring them the instructions? Where did you have the camber set to before you gave it to them. Like I said ,"D",all the way outward and then in 1/4'(pen or pencil width) is a good starting point for the alignment guy. These are different then any other UCA's and the tech should get the instructions . If the camber is all the way in before tightened then He will never get it .https://www.spcalignment.com/instructions/25480-INS_WEB.pdf

 

[2021nightshade4x4]

You are right I know that 5.5 is a bit of a high shot but I cannot even get them to tell me my current values and it is a bit darty at highway speeds which based off of my other cars, especially those with low caster issues is a tell tale sign of low caster. I am at 47k so not high mileage in any way.

“I cannot even get them to tell me my current values”

Either they broke something, they don’t actually have an alignment machine, or both.


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[harper7]

Found old pic from years ago...
Like this and then the truck LCA cam bolts can be adjusted by the alignment guy to get +5 caster and ~0 camber

 

[mbm112]

Your best bet is to find a 4x4 shop that works on these specifically


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[bayaz]

Hey all,

So far I have been to 3 alignment shops and every time I speak to someone on the phone and tell them that I have custom adjustable UCA's they say no problem but whenever I get it back they only adjust toe & camber and leave caster greyed out. I cannot even get them to give me a freaking caster # but I know that it is too low due to how it tracks down the road. I have a 3/2 lift and am having zero luck getting a shop to listen to me when I ask for specific caster numbers.

What are many of you doing to get proper alignments after a lift? I am tempted to mark my UCA's for their current camber settings and just go at working out caster myself as I am sick of this BS. Anyone out there dial in their caster on their own?

I printed out instructions from SPC and made sure they follow them. The tech actually enjoyed the learning curve. I also tell the shop the specific caster number I want.

On the other hand, the guy at Filthy Motorsports recommended calling and asking if they specifically have experience adjusting SPC arms, and only going to shops that do (going to be almost none, other than dedicated off-road shops).

 

[Brandonium]

Just a couple of things to note. Every time I have brought it to get it aligned I hand over the printed instructions and have also gone over what I am set to, etc. As far as knowing Caster settings before bringing to the shop I cannot say. The only shop to finally give me a printout only included what they set camber and toe to but nothing as far as caster.

I can say that I am set to the SPC logo outward on each side and the "D" setting as well. When I initially brought the vehicle in for alignment one I had the LCA cams adjusted for max caster and I had to eyeball camber but to be honest my alignment was a total mess after the lift and UCA swap.

Even centering of the wheel is not correct. One shop after alignment has it veering left at center and then the last alignment has it veering right at center. Every time I have asked for current and after alignment values I am told 'Our machine doesn't do that'.

I have an appointment at a 4x4 shop in a week to have a look. I told them straight up that I am frustrated with alignment techs and shops not listening and that I needed someone who was willing to take their time aligning and communicating what my true alignment values were/are.

As far as Camber I have one UCA set all the way out and the other side half way to center as far as top nut location. Not sure why there is such a disparity but I can go snag my camber/toe values and post.

The last shop told me that caster values are greyed out because stock 4runners don't have any caster correction options. I called BS on this.

 

[Forgetful]

Just do it yourself. Need not much more than a straight edge, cell phone, diy sweep caster measurer, and tape measurer. No one cares more about your vehicle than you do.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

I bet you someone flattened the rear cam tabs on the front bushings.

The SPC arms are not hard to work with unless the factory suspension is messed up. I had them on my 4th gen and ran them until my 35's were just a bit too much for them.

5.5° is far more caster than you need or want unless you're trying to run 34's or larger. I wouldn't go too much higher than 4° as that seems to be a good sweet spot when balanced with a fairly neutral and/or slightly negative camber for wider/larger off-road tires. Additionally a little extra toe-in can help with chunkier tires, there is such thing as going too high; at which point the vehicle will track too well and follow every imperfection in the road and feel like almost like it's wandering.

I wouldn't trust any place that can't or won't provide all your measurements. I will adjust specifications in our machine for our lifted customers so their custom specifications don't show up "Red/Out of Spec," but they always get their before and after measurements with a note that it was adjusted for "lifted specs."

Post Note- tire shape and pressure are also very important.

 

[Brandonium]

Thank you for this. I will check the rear cams and see. Currently I am running new BFG KO2's and run 37 lbs front and rear. I'll get a pic of my LCA cams and post them up.

I bet you someone flattened the rear cam tabs on the front bushings.

The SPC arms are not hard to work with unless the factory suspension is messed up. I had them on my 4th gen and ran them until my 35's were just a bit too much for them.

5.5° is far more caster than you need or want unless you're trying to run 34's or larger. I wouldn't go too much higher than 4° as that seems to be a good sweet spot when balanced with a fairly neutral and/or slightly negative camber for wider/larger off-road tires. Additionally a little extra toe-in can help with chunkier tires, there is such thing as going too high; at which point the vehicle will track too well and follow every imperfection in the road and feel like almost like it's wandering.

I wouldn't trust any place that can't or won't provide all your measurements. I will adjust specifications in our machine for our lifted customers so their custom specifications don't show up "Red/Out of Spec," but they always get their before and after measurements with a note that it was adjusted for "lifted specs."

Post Note- tire shape and pressure are also very important.