HELP! Brake lines contain non-brake fluid!

[antidentite]

I just purchased a used 4Runner, which I've recently taken to the dealer to get new brakes installed.

They told me that the fluid in the braking system is not braking fluid, and that I will need to replace the entire braking system to fix this problem.

They're not exactly sure what fluid is in there, but they said it's certainly not brake fluid, which could ruin the master cylinder and ABS system which will cost $5,000!

I've already purchased this vehicle, so please let me know what you recommend I do, and any possible fixes for less than $5k!

 

[sbbamafan]

First - What exactly was wrong when you took it to the dealer?Second - Whatever the problem take it somewhere else to get a second opinion. What year is the vehicle? You can absolutely get new calipers, wheel cylinders, booster etc. for a fraction of $5k including labor.

 

[antidentite]

The person I bought it from told me that the rear brakes needed to be replaced, which is why I originally brought it to the dealer.

The brakes work on it now, but the dealer told me that there was a fluid in the brake system that's not brake fluid...

The vehicle year is 2003.

 

[Bob_VT]

Have the system flushed a few times and keep an eye on the fluid color for a few months...... wonder what was put in there?

 

[Methodical]

What can you do besides flush out the system? I wouldn't let them replace anything until something actually goes wrong.

There aren't many fluids that will cause problems. brake fluid is really harsh. It might be ATF or power steering fluid, in which case you should flush it because it won't take the heat that brake fluid will. They also contain other additives but you can hope they aren't too bad.

It could also be aftermarket brake fluid that is a different color they don't recognize.

 

[drmorbius]

Brake fluid is clear so I doubt its ATF since that would be pink. Brake fluid is also hydroscopic (sp?) which means it attracts water. Maybe you could describe this fluid to us as to color etc. Brake fluid also has a distinct smell which is like nothing else. Maybe you could compare the smell with another car. I agree with Even Steven that I have never seen or heard of this happening. I don't think your brakes would work well at all if this was not hydraulic fluid.

 

[drmorbius]

I suppose someone could have used jack oil which is also clear. But I don't believe that would ruin the other parts mentioned as jacks have rubber seals also. At worst I would drain and refill.

 

[antidentite]

I dropped the car off at another Toyota dealership today in the hopes that they'll deliver a better diagnosis on the fluid in the master cylinder.

I've been doing some research on this, and it looks like if a petroleum-based oil was poured into the master brake cylinder, the petroleum would destroy all rubber components, requiring a VERY COSTLY overhaul of the brake components.

Articles like this one: Petroleum in the Master Cylinder speak to the possible damage. This would require replacing the master cylinder (a $2,300 part alone!), brake valving, rubber hoses, calipers, wheel cylinders, and the ABS modulator. It also indicates that a brake flush alone will not remove the contaminants - for that, denatured alcohol is required.

Worst case scenario: the dealer wanted $5k to do this work. I did talk to the used car dealer who sold me the car and they may take it back (with some argument and about $500 in suck costs for me), but I'd also like to find a place in Seattle who could do these repairs for around $1k. I got such a good deal on the truck, that I'd be willing to put about $1k into it to make sure it's safe to drive with my family in it...

 

[Boston_Runner]

No wonder why you got such a good deal for the truck, if I were you, I would return it.

 

[00328]

It could also be aftermarket brake fluid that is a different color they don't recognize.

That would be my guess also. I would take it somewhere and have them do a COMPLETE brake flush. Then just keep an eye on it and see how your brakes do afterwards.
Hard for me to believe someone would put something other than brake fluid in the reservoir.

 

[antidentite]

I've confirmed with another Toyota dealer that it is in fact a petroleum-based substance in the brake lines.

This also explains why I could not secure the master cylinder cap, as the rubber gasket within the cap had swelled to the point where I could no longer secure it on the reservoir.

I paid $14k for the vehicle that's a 2003 V8 4x4 with 72k miles, 17" rims (with mis-matched tires) and sunroof. Now if only I could find a repair shop to fix it for less than $1,500...

 

[Mike07SE]

I would eat the 500 bucks and return it to that used lot you got it from. It looks as if you're really just going to walking into one big headache with this vehicle. If they don't take it back, I'd talk to a lawyer and possibly threaten with a suit since they sold you a vehicle that is unsafe for the road.

 

[CJ3Flyr]

As rough as this vehicle seems are you sure 72,000mi is legit? I would ask around and see if the ECM stores hours of operation. Over the life of a vehicle I have found between 28 and 38 mph to be most peoples average speed. If it has significantly more than 2100-2200 hours I'd be suspicious.

It is not even my car and it pisses me off... You can get good DOT3/4 brakefluid anywhere! My grocery store has it as does every convinience store I can think of AND it's cheap!

I hate it for you...

 

[antidentite]

Just a quick update:

I was able to return this vehicle and get all of my money back, except for the extensive detail I had done and the inspections. Regarless, I consider myself very lucky!

I also found a 2004 4Runner w/ 20k less miles for $1k more. I purchased it last weekend after it passed the Toyota dealer inspection with flying colors!

 

[BC4Runner]

Glad to read it worked out for the best. Now you can really enjoy your 4Runner.

 

[CO_FlyFisher]

Sucks to be the next guy who buys the car though!

Maybe you should have put a note in it somewhere the used car sleazo wouldn't find...

Glad you got all your $$$ back.

 

[jharris2]

Glad it worked out for you.

In retrospect, seeing that it had mismatched tires should have been a warning sign that the vehicle hadn't been properly cared for. Taking the second vehicle for an inspection before you bought was a good move.

 

[antidentite]

There were a lot of signs that it was poorly cared for, so I obviously let my excitement over finally finding an "inexpensive" 4Runner get the best of me.

I was challenging the old saying "if it's too good to be true, it probably is" - and I lost horribly!

But it was a good learning experience to ALWAYS get a pre-purchase inspection, even on a Toyota.

I'll post pics of my new 4Runner shortly.