HELP! Front Alignment Issue

[squishmitten]

I'm having an issue after installing the following on my girl's 99 Limited 2WD.

Bilstein 6112's
Ome 890's
Toytec Panhard drop bracket
New OEM UBJ and LBJ
New Duralast OTRE (did not replace inners)

When I replaced the UBJ, I pulled the entire spindle to take it to a shop to get them pressed in (press from O'Reiley's couldn't seat fully). After getting them back, everything went back together smoothly. When replacing the OTRE, I measured the lengths, counted turns for each side, and put the new OTRE in exactly as the old came out.

After getting the vehicle back on the ground, I noticed that both the front wheels were pointed inward (pigeon toed). I figured this would be corrected once aligned, as I limped it up to Firestone, the tires were squealing pretty bad. A few hours later then called and stated everything was good to go. Alignment sheet looked good, but when I left, the steering wheel wouldn't naturally return to center and the tires are still squealing. I can clearly see extreme positive camber and toe in on both wheels.

I tried taking it back but they basically brushed me off and said come back tomorrow. I'm gonna take it to the shop next to SDHQ first thing in the morning, but I'm feeling pretty dumb and wondering if there's anything else in the front end that could be causing this? Everything is new, installed and torqued to spec per the FSM. Please help

 

[pauldub]

Thanks for reminding me to keep doing my own alignment. There is no way in the world that their camber readings are correct. The alignment grunt did something totally wrong to get those numbers with the way the tires are tilted. I'd try to not return to the same store.

 

[Nate_GB]

Did you torque the upper control arm bolt with the car on the ground or with the suspension drooped out?

Also, I would tell the alignment shop what alignment numbers you want. I recommend shooting for 3 degrees of caster and -.2 degrees of camber.

 

[BrianSD_42]

I wouldn't even go back there. Sounds like a dishonest shop.

How about this. Find another shop, take it there to get aligned.

Go back to Firestone, demand a refund. Speak to the manager. Write his name down in your phone or memory. Give them an opportunity to do the right thing and refund you.

If they do not refund you, even after showing the pictures then post a severely negative review on Yelp and Google Maps along with the pics, story proof etc. At that point, well don't expect your money back.

https://antislapplaws.com/arizona-anti-slapp-acts-laws.php

 

[octanejunkie]

Looking at your measurements I doubt they touched the LCA cams at all, looks like a Toe and Go alignment

 

[PRG3K]

Slightly off-topic but how good are certain shops at aligning to spec? If I just handed them a copy of the alignment page out of the factory service manual, how close can they typically get?


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[pauldub]

Slightly off-topic but how good are certain shops at aligning to spec? If I just handed them a copy of the alignment page out of the factory service manual, how close can they typically get?

They have all the specs already; however, aligning to spec doesn't really mean the vehicle will drive correctly. Because of the spec tolerances, a vehicle can be in spec and be very difficult to keep in the lane. Generally a vehicle should be aligned to the mid spec numbers with about 1/4 degree of cross camber to compensate for road crown.

 

[pauldub]

Looking at your measurements I doubt they touched the LCA cams at all, looks like a Toe and Go alignment

If you look at the camber numbers and look at the photos, you can see that camber numbers on the print out have no correlation with the extreme camber seen in the photos.

 

[JayRolla]

I'm guessing LCA essentrics are seized and they could not make adjustments.

 

[IBallEngineer]

With all the posts I've seen about having an alignment done at Firestone, there ought to be a sticky about NOT GOING to Firestone. Seriously, I taught high school kids to do alignments, and although they aren't quite ready to work in the field, they would do better than these bozos!

:redbrick:

 

[phattyduck]

Notice right at the top where it says "MODIFIED SPECIFICATION"?

Yeah, that's where they cheated. Those aren't the correct specs for a 4Runner and they are lying to you.

Also, that front end is a bit high... I would drop it a couple notches...

-Charlie

 

[gamefreakgc]

Some Toyota dealerships have decent prices on alignments. My local place does it for $69, which isn't bad for stealership prices. Comes back perfect every time.

I know a lot of people like Firestone for the lifetime alignment, which isn't a bad deal if you are doing a lot of suspension work or knock things around a lot but for one-time things just get it done right the first time.

 

[JRZEE2000TR4LTD]

That's at least 2 degrees positive camber. No way that is .8<->.4 positive. Even with the modified specifications, those readings are just wrong. How on god's green earth does that get handed back to the customer?? NO WAY do I go back to that shop. DEMAND your money back. There is just no excuse for that.

 

[Tiktiki]

With all the posts I've seen about having an alignment done at Firestone, there ought to be a sticky about NOT GOING to Firestone. Seriously, I taught high school kids to do alignments, and although they aren't quite ready to work in the field, they would do better than these bozos!

:redbrick:

I didn't study in mechanic and operated the alignment machine when I did my LBJs (bro in law works at a Hyundai dealership, but he didn't get the training yet).

With that experience, I am pretty sure they installed the "mirrors" wrong. It's an easy mistake to do if you don't double-check when clamping the mirrors that they are wedged all the way inside the rim/tire joint.

What I don't understand is how a UBJ could have ****ed the camber that much... the assembly would need to sit MUCH higher than before to affect it that much (total length from LBJ to UBJ would be longer).

I would go back and straight-up ask for the manager, not even trying to deal with the clerk. Bring him outside (make sure to park level and with the wheel centered) and ask him what is wrong. His face will tell you if he is worth your time.

In any case, that "alignment" will cost you a pair if tires unless you fix it quick.

 

[squishmitten]

I appreciate everyone's input! Its definitely safe to say I will never go back to another Firestone. My buddy with the Yukon actually purchased a lifetime alignment through them after being talked into it by their sales rep. The sales rep specifically advised that because he's running Icon UCA that he should get the lifetime. He went back in to have it checked and I watched the tech come out front and start yelling at him to take his truck somewhere else. I feel dumb for expecting more from them, and I may even write a strongly worded email to someone about these 2 experiences :uzi:.

So I got the truck back and fixed the tire squealing issue with a few cranks of the tie rods to get the wheels lined up better. I took the truck to Oasis Auto, a nice shop in the same complex as SDHQ. It turns out, they were more than happy to help and they do the alignments on all the SDHQ trucks. They advised that they wouldn't feel comfortable aligning it considering the condition of the UCA bushings and LCA bushings. They quoted me $1400 to replace them and align it. I took the vehicle home and pulled the arms off, bought bushings, and brought them back for them to press in. $40, a few donated beers, and another day of my time and the truck is now at their shop getting aligned.

 

[JRZEE2000TR4LTD]

I appreciate everyone's input! Its definitely safe to say I will never go back to another Firestone. My buddy with the Yukon actually purchased a lifetime alignment through them after being talked into it by their sales rep. The sales rep specifically advised that because he's running Icon UCA that he should get the lifetime. He went back in to have it checked and I watched the tech come out front and start yelling at him to take his truck somewhere else. I feel dumb for expecting more from them, and I may even write a strongly worded email to someone about these 2 experiences :uzi:.

So I got the truck back and fixed the tire squealing issue with a few cranks of the tie rods to get the wheels lined up better. I took the truck to Oasis Auto, a nice shop in the same complex as SDHQ. It turns out, they were more than happy to help and they do the alignments on all the SDHQ trucks. They advised that they wouldn't feel comfortable aligning it considering the condition of the UCA bushings and LCA bushings. They quoted me $1400 to replace them and align it. I took the vehicle home and pulled the arms off, bought bushings, and brought them back for them to press in. $40, a few donated beers, and another day of my time and the truck is now at their shop getting aligned.

Awesome. Post up your alignment sheet again when you get it back.

 

[tylwil1999]

Hello,
This is very old, but did you figure our the positive camber issue on your girlfriends 4runner? I did the same lift and have the same issue...three alignment shops have looked at it and its all new parts. Any info would be appreciated.
Sincerely,
Tyler

 

[tylwil1999]

I had this same positive camber issue. Whole new front end and several alignments. I was ready to give up and then I found this info and it saved the day. I cannot give any credit as I dont know where I found this info!

"If the lift you put on is new and raised the front of your truck then you need to do one simple thing to fix this. Jack up the front of the truck but do not it keep the jack under the lower control arms, use jack stands on the frame placed forward a bit of the front doors. Mark the position of your lower control arm cam bolts and then loosen them. They should twist or pop when they become free. You will know they are loose because you'll be able the turn the bolt side of the cam fairly easily and see the control arm move in or out of centerline. Then take your socket wrench and tighten the nut until there is no play left (5 to 10 ft lbs) do this to both sides. Once complete lower the truck back down and drive in reverse to the end of your driveway straight and then back forward. Crawl under the truck (not on jack or stands) reposition your lower control arm cam bolts back to the marks you made in the begining and tighten to 207 ft lbs. This will correctly index your lower control arm bushings to your new ride height. Lower control arm bushings do not twist themselves only the LCA moves. When you lift the front and obviously push the LCA down at an angle the rubber part of the bushings are put in tension and will always be fighting to return thier original position, thus making alignments to go wonky."

 

[phattyduck]

^^^

You should be 'resetting' the bushings on all arms whenever you change ride height. This includes all 5 rear links and the upper control arm pivot too. Standard practice - well, it should be. People seem to forget it all the time. Not needed on any locations that are poly or heim joints.

-Charlie