HELP ME MY ABS AlMOST KILLED ME.

[JohnsD90]

I posted on another thread concerning the ABS. Just wanted to chime in here. I have driven 4 or 5 different vehicles with ABS systems, and I agree that they are well designed, and for a good purpose. They do optimize stopping ability when they function correctly. The issue is not whether or not ABS is an efficient system. Normally it is. That doesnt mean you cant have a flawed system that needs some kinks worked out. What we're talking about here is the particular ABS system on the early third gen 4runners (apparently 96-98). I have the 98 sr5, and can say that it does not function the way the ABS does on the other vehicles Iv felt ABS on (honda accord, toyota tundra, pontiac grand am, ford taurus). For some reason Toyota had some design issues with it those first three years. Honesly, as Brian and others have said, its terrible, to the point of being dangerous. A few weeks ago I rolled out into an intersection going about 10 mph, because ONE of my tires hit a patch of ice. The other three were on solid concrete. But that one tire engaged the ABS, which, frankly just doesnt do what it is intended to. Rather than assisting stopping power, it entirely removes it. The 99-02 runners (even though they are 3rd gen) dont seem to have the same ABS system. I imagine the good people at Toyota worked out the kinks. But I think one would need to drive mine or a similar runner for themself, to really understand it. I'll stop rambling now.

Yeah, I've had the same issue with 1 wheel on snow and 3 on asphalt and it wouldnt send any power to the wheels on the asphalt, Almost shot me onto a main road luckily i had room to merge instead of get hit.

 

[LINY4Runner]

At least you didn't end up like this.

Colorado Springs, 12/30/10

hahahahahahhaahahahahhaa

greatest video ever.
:lol:

 

[Maritimer]

Yes, I can see how some people would sort of freak out when they hear/feel the pulsating and think there is something wrong when there isn't. I'm glad you made that distinction because it is hard to tell over the internet who is in fact having actual problems and who just doesn't know how normal ABS should work and sound like.

What do you find happens to you Brian, is it that the ABS kicks in when there is actually more than enough traction?

 

[brian2sun]

What do you find happens to you Brian, is it that the ABS kicks in when there is actually more than enough traction?

It's too sensitive and kicks in at the slightest hint of a tire sliding, but that's not the worst part. Once it kicks in, it lets off the brakes too much and stays on for way too long. And then I go down the hill too fast and there's nothing I can do about it. It's like Pringles, "Once you pop you just can't stop". On hills that I used to have this problem on, I can go down twice as slow now with ABS disabled and be in a lot more control. Even if I start sliding, I can pump the brakes and still slow down, whereas the ABS would just let it keep going, sometimes picking up speed.

 

[techno]

Just wanted to add my thoughts regarding ABS...

On pavement, in ANY weather conditions, ABS is good.
On gravel, in ANY weather conditions, ABS sux.
Tire tread and condition makes a BIG difference. Don't forget, ABS does not activate until your tires have lost traction in the first place.
3rd gen ABS is too sensitive for my liking. Small bumps seem to tigger it when it is clearly not warranted.

ABS has helped me steer and brake on black ice and avoid a collision at least twice. It's helped me brake severely and stop in time and not run over an elderly man who stepped onto the road without looking.
ABS has made me drive more defensively offroad and leave even more stopping distance when following on gravel/mud.

I wish I had an on/off switch for it.

 

[Duhockey]

Just wanted to add my thoughts regarding ABS...

On pavement, in ANY weather conditions, ABS is good.
On gravel, in ANY weather conditions, ABS sux.
Tire tread and condition makes a BIG difference. Don't forget, ABS does not activate until your tires have lost traction in the first place.
3rd gen ABS is too sensitive for my liking. Small bumps seem to tigger it when it is clearly not warranted.

ABS has helped me steer and brake on black ice and avoid a collision at least twice. It's helped me brake severely and stop in time and not run over an elderly man who stepped onto the road without looking.
ABS has made me drive more defensively offroad and leave even more stopping distance when following on gravel/mud.

I wish I had an on/off switch for it.

Steezemcqueen did a writeup on an off switch for it

 

[Maritimer]

It's too sensitive and kicks in at the slightest hint of a tire sliding, but that's not the worst part. Once it kicks in, it lets off the brakes too much and stays on for way too long. And then I go down the hill too fast and there's nothing I can do about it. It's like Pringles, "Once you pop you just can't stop". On hills that I used to have this problem on, I can go down twice as slow now with ABS disabled and be in a lot more control. Even if I start sliding, I can pump the brakes and still slow down, whereas the ABS would just let it keep going, sometimes picking up speed.

:hatsoff:

Thanks for this description. I don't have enough winter driving experience to judge how mine is working yet, and I'm still in the process of fully assessing how my Runner behaves. So far on loose snow I'd like the ABS to not kick in, as the wheels should dig down to pavement in these situations. I can understand full-on ice, though.

 

[1985taylor1925]

Just wanted to add my thoughts regarding ABS...

On pavement, in ANY weather conditions, ABS is good.
On gravel, in ANY weather conditions, ABS sux.
Tire tread and condition makes a BIG difference. Don't forget, ABS does not activate until your tires have lost traction in the first place.
3rd gen ABS is too sensitive for my liking. Small bumps seem to tigger it when it is clearly not warranted.

ABS has helped me steer and brake on black ice and avoid a collision at least twice. It's helped me brake severely and stop in time and not run over an elderly man who stepped onto the road without looking.
ABS has made me drive more defensively offroad and leave even more stopping distance when following on gravel/mud.

I wish I had an on/off switch for it.

You have an 2000 though (it seems from your signiture). I think the ABS on 99-02 is alot better than 98 and earlier. I believe with my 98 ABS, I would have helplessly ran over the poor elderly man = ) Theyre really bad

 

[makakio]

I have an '01 and the ABS is the worst, most low-tech ABS I've ever driven. My old '92 Mercedes had faaaar better ABS in it. Here's the real problem: it cycles way too slow. So it applies pressure the threshold (tire slide) then releases a bit, then reapplies pressure to threshold (and over and over). But whereas most cars cycle this about 15 times a second, I would swear my 4R cycles like this ONCE every second, so I get noticeable lockup followed by noticeable release - and over and over.

I was just up in Oregon over the holiday and really gave ABS and VSC a real workout and while they both work, it's as if Toyota but a huuuuge re**** on the timing of the whole system - then made it too quick to trigger. VSC compunds the problem, because it cuts throttle, so in those icy 4WD conditions where you want to apply a little throttle to pull yourself out of a slide situation the system just starts closing throttle and clamping brakes. ANd if you're at the point of no return with stability electronics (and only throttle and drift are going to pull you through) - you're f*cked.

The truck did admirably (as always) in the snow and on the ice, but it'a light, tightly-sprung truck with big wheels. It's going to suuuuck on the slippery. No getting away from it. Coming back from Xmas we probably had 1500 pounds of passengers and gear in and on it and it handled much, much, MUCH better. I have a theory that this is why the LandCruiser and Sequoia are better snow/ice trucks. Weight.

 

[brian2sun]

I have a theory that this is why the LandCruiser and Sequoia are better snow/ice trucks. Weight.

I agree. Now with my ABS disabled and all the extra weight from bumpers and armor (~650 lbs.) that I am carrying, I have a lot more control on the snow. That weight definitely made a big difference with traction on the slippery. A lot of guys with pickups shovel snow or put sandbags in the bed so the ass end doesn't slide around so easy too.

One thing I have noticed about heavier vehicles like Newer LCs, Suburbans, Tahoes, etc.. is they get good traction in most circumstances, but it's a little harder to make it up steep hills in the snow. Then the extra weight can sometimes work against you and sorta pull you back down the hill.

 

[awpsome]

is it possible, just thinking, to find the ABS computer on a 01-02 and change it with a 96-00?
i just had the same **** happen to me today.. not suprised happens quite often with mines.

even with the tundra brake upgrade. today was going around 10mph truck in front slammed his brakes i did the same and road was a little wet and had some gravel. slid a good 10ft. and stopped 1 inch from his rear bumper. unable to swerve to either side due to other vehicles felt all the grinding and bull****.. me and my gf next to me figured we were going to hit the other truck in front..

iunno but i say its pretty unsafe. gotta figure out a fix..

 

[Duhockey]

is it possible, just thinking, to find the ABS computer on a 01-02 and change it with a 96-00?
i just had the same **** happen to me today.. not suprised happens quite often with mines.

even with the tundra brake upgrade. today was going around 10mph truck in front slammed his brakes i did the same and road was a little wet and had some gravel. slid a good 10ft. and stopped 1 inch from his rear bumper. unable to swerve to either side due to other vehicles felt all the grinding and bull****.. me and my gf next to me figured we were going to hit the other truck in front..

iunno but i say its pretty unsafe. gotta figure out a fix..

You dont want one from 96 thats for sure... its the worst Ive ever driven period...

 

[SkidPalace]

is it possible, just thinking, to find the ABS computer on a 01-02 and change it with a 96-00?
i just had the same **** happen to me today.. not suprised happens quite often with mines.

even with the tundra brake upgrade. today was going around 10mph truck in front slammed his brakes i did the same and road was a little wet and had some gravel. slid a good 10ft. and stopped 1 inch from his rear bumper. unable to swerve to either side due to other vehicles felt all the grinding and bull****.. me and my gf next to me figured we were going to hit the other truck in front..

iunno but i say its pretty unsafe. gotta figure out a fix..

I don't think you can lump 96-'00 trucks. My system works beautifully and has saved my life (four lives if you count the other three in the car) at least once.
Surely someone knows if the braking controller system has changed throughout the 3rd gen models.
My guess is that the braking system changed when VSC was introduced, and that was '01. But there must have been a '99-'00 change as well as someone previously mentioned.
It would be great to use the momentum of this thread to investigate the instances of faulty operation and tie it to a specific run of models.

 

[LexusFTW]

My 99 has terrible ABS as well. I was braking on an off-ramp, hit a bump and the truck wouldn't stop for 15ft. It scared the hell out of me. I'll be disabling it soon.

 

[kball]

I haven't experienced it much yet but from what I have I'd agree with the rest that there is a problem. Once ABS kicks in you can stand on the brake pedal and pray, there's nothing else you can do. My old 1990 Dodge 1 ton had the same issue. Once it kicked in the rear tires would lock up release, lock up etc... The front braking power went down to almost nothing and I almost rearended people numerous times.

After owning it for 10 years I switched dealerships for service and what do you know, they fixed it. Worked much better after they serviced it. I'm betting there's something Toyota could do.. whether they will...?

 

[RonMAIDEN]

Just a reminder on disabling factory safety equipment that if you are in an accident and if there is an investigation and they find the ABS (or airbag,etc.) was disabled your insurance company can refuse coverage and you could be sued by the other party if you were at fault.

 

[SkidPalace]

Just a reminder on disabling factory safety equipment that if you are in an accident and if there is an investigation and they find the ABS (or airbag,etc.) was disabled your insurance company can refuse coverage and you could be sued by the other party if you were at fault.

Not to mention probably criminally liable if the accident results in significant personal injury or death.

 

[techno]

I just realized that if you have a factory e-locker, when it is engaged the ABS is turned off.

I haven't read mcqueens write up on the abs switch yet, but given this fact, it should be a simple thing to do.

 

[rhetty]

ABS almost killed you...
:iagree:
I have to agree This ABS system is the worst I have come in contact with in my 23yrs of driving. I could see this system causing alot of bad situations,
I have had my 96 for 17 days and have had a few WTF moments with my ABS, Tonight was the worst, leaving a friends houes his driveway has a strip of ice along the left hand side where meltwater flows during the day then freezes at night. So I am going about 5mph and go to stop at the end of the driveway step on the brake and I keep going ABS active:zoom: SO I grab the Ebrake and stop just before I enter the road,, WTF! Get out to see why this happened and all I see is the ice strip that my drivers side wheels were on, pass side totally dry no ice/sand nothing... OK this is not good, seems that this post is right I have never had a vehicle react this poorly in a similar situation,
My question is this is a 3 channel system 2ch front 1ch rear correct?
So the 2 front wheels should react somewhat independently and provide some braking when the drivers side is on ice and the passenger side is not slipping, I realize that the passenger side wheel needs to give also so as not to cause a spin when the passenger side grabs and the drivers side slips but I lost all braking:wow2:. I guess the rear channel reacts as one so when either wheel loses traction and locks causing the ABS to activate both wheels regardless of traction diffrences side to side will do the abs dance and not really help stopping any time soon lol.. I get that, but WTH is up with the front wheels?? It acts like a 2ch system and that is not good at all!
So what is up with this system? too sensitive? too conservitive??
I am a fan of ABS it is a great tool and in all of my other vehicles it has been great, but this system scares me. I may be pulling the fuse soon but until I do on snow and ice stopping in a straight line I will be driving with one hand near the ebrake thats for sure!

 

[quicksilvr]

Last night my sister ended up in the ditch ACROSS the road at a T intersection in her 1997 Limited. She was going about 8mph when the ABS started doing it's thing....and she literally had no brakes. As soon as she got a friend to pull her out of the ditch, she drove straight to my house and I yanked the ABS fuse out. Without the ABS, she attempted the same stop, at the same location, with the same road conditions later that night....and she stopped in like 5 feet.


Question for everyone: when I pulled the fuse, it looks like it broke.....I can't really tell how exactly it's supposed to come out. It did not come out easy...I had to use a pair of pliers. I'm going to leave it out, so it's not that big of a deal...but if I did want to replace it, what's the trick to taking them in and out?