Help planning a Fox coilover lift

[Tuthmose]

As my WTB ad generated no answers (not at all surprising, giving what I was looking for), I’m going to be building what I want myself. I’ve no real experience with suspensions, but I am mechanically inclined, can do engine and brake work, and am a quick study. I’m in need of some instruction from those with experience.

I am very much interested in going with FOX DSC-equipped external reservoir shocks for a 3” lift, but I have a few opening questions I hope somebody can answer:

1. I plan on running a front armored bumper with a winch. Is it possible to get Fox front 883-06-130 2.5 Factory Series Coil-Over Reservoir w/ DSC Adjuster with heavier (700lb?) springs than the standard, which I understand to be 600 or 650lb? Is that something that is done, or am I ill-informed/misunderstanding something?
   
2. What rear shocks does one pair with those fronts? From the website, it looks like the only shocks they have that will do 3” lift are 2.0 size. All the 2.5 rears are only 0-1.5” lift. That can’t be right, can it? What am I missing or misunderstanding? I'll be running a rear armored bumper with tire carrier too, for what it's worth.

I'm sorry if this has been hashed over elsewhere - I searched the lift FAQ for "Fox", but it returned nothing (too short a word?)

I’ll probably need some more guidance, but this will get me started. Any help is greatly appreciated!

 

[drbyrdman]

I have Fox on all 4 corners. I did replace the front coilovers springs with 700 lbs. Wheelers offroad Eibach springs. The 600 lbs springs Fox come with are way to soft.

 

[Inv4drZm]

Fox doesn't list length specs on their website...

But if you trust what Downsouth Motorsports lists, they are 15.2" compressed 23.97" extended

Icon standard length rear are 14.85" compressed 24.35" extended
Bilstein 5100 rear are 14.91" compressed 23.5" extended
Fox 2.0 rear are 15.2" compressed 24.8" extended

The Fox 2.5" rears should work fine with 3" of lift, my Icons are fine with my 3" lift springs. Who knows why they list it as 0-1.5" of lift.

For the stiffer coils (700lb), I would recommend them with a bumper and winch (the setup I have minus winch), and I would talk to Fox, Downsouth Motorsports, or Accutune-offroad to see if they could ship the shocks with stiffer springs installed. Worth a shot.

 

[Tuthmose]

Thank you both for your help. Drbyrdman, do you run 2.0s or 2.5s on the rear?

It appears, based on further research, that I should give King a good hard look too. The issue I found there was that several sites posted information to the effect that they should not be used to lift about 2.5" Does anyone have confirmation or refutation of that?

Thanks again!

 

[mikey's2010SR5]

Might want to look at Tundra rear shocks. With a few tweaks they work. They offer an extended travel over the shock you are looking at.

I am running the 2.5 DSCs from the tundra on my 5th gen and been very happy. The fronts are DSCs as well and I have actually thought about swapping in heavier springs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Inv4drZm]

Thank you both for your help. Drbyrdman, do you run 2.0s or 2.5s on the rear?

It appears, based on further research, that I should give King a good hard look too. The issue I found there was that several sites posted information to the effect that they should not be used to lift about 2.5" Does anyone have confirmation or refutation of that?

Thanks again!

They are all the same more or less, are you talking about front or rear or both?

I've never heard of the 2.5" lift maximum, as all the OEM replacement shocks from Icon, King, Fox are close enough to be considered the same travel-wise.

 

[ChrisJHarney]

Thank you both for your help. Drbyrdman, do you run 2.0s or 2.5s on the rear?

It appears, based on further research, that I should give King a good hard look too. The issue I found there was that several sites posted information to the effect that they should not be used to lift about 2.5" Does anyone have confirmation or refutation of that?

Thanks again!

From what I have read on this forum, on Filthy Motorsports website and videos, and everyone I’ve talked to at King, you can run the King OEM 2.5s (stock valving) much higher than 2.5”. That number is a “optimal ride” number, where the shocks are built to do their best work. The higher you go, the harsher the ride gets, which may not be a horrible thing if you like your plush SUV to ride like a truck. I personally do, my wife, not so much. Which is why I’m going with adjusters.

I believe you can also have up to an 800lb front coil installed, but most vendors will only recommend up to 700. I’m going with 700 in the front when I get mine.

I’ve spent the last month pieceing together my suspension as well. I looked at both Fox and King. I sourced advice from both manufacturers and vendors specializing in each set-up. I ended up buying King OEM extended travel shocks because

1. I’m not going to fiddle all that much with the adjusters except to find a comfortable on road setting, and a comfortable off-road setting. Others find the Fox DSC set up to be superior in as much as the tweaking you can do for high speed runs as well as slow crawling is more fine tuned while the King’s adjustment is more mid-to high speed adjustment. I don’t think I’ll have any problems dialing it in to fit my needs.

2. I love the fact that King is literally about a 30 minute drive from me. Their customer service is top notch, I actually called them up on a random weekday and within 3 minutes I was speaking with a shock tech about my rig. When I do rebuild, I will likely have a laundry list of improvements, and I like the fact that I can easily get a hold of someone who will help me.

Conversely, also from what I’ve read, the materials that Fox uses are super high quality stuff, superior in surface strength to pretty much anything else out there. They use higher quality viton seals right out of the box (you can add viton to any King shock as well, but it’s optional). If you aren’t planning on going with a custom tune, a local vendor I talked to claims Fox’s factory tuning leaves something to be desired, but there are a ton of vendors out there that will work with you to spec out custom valving from the factory, or before they deliver the parts, just be prepared to wait.

I have a friend who REALLY wanted Fox shocks because of DSC, and as mentioned above, was offered the Tundra shocks to get close to the travel he was looking for, but ultimately still didn’t provide the kind of travel he was looking for. He said Accutune was fairly helpful, and they specialize in Fox. But he’s going King’s as well.

I’m sure you and pretty much everyone else here is familiar with Filthy Motorsports and Accutune, but it’s worth mentioning that they both have really good info about King and Fox, respectively, on their websites. They are both in the business of custom tuning shocks, so they should know better than most.

Good luck with the build and I’m sure which ever way you go, you’ll probably be extremely happy.

 

[Inv4drZm]

Icon 2.0 are 14.85" compressed 24.35" extended
Bilstein 5100 are 14.91" compressed 23.5" extended
Fox 2.5 are 15.2" compressed 23.97" extended
Fox 2.0 are 15.2" compressed 24.8" extended

King 2.5 are 16.022 compressed 24.614 extended

All found on Wheeler's website.

All can do 3" or more lift.

 

[ChrisJHarney]

For the stiffer coils (700lb), I would recommend them with a bumper and winch (the setup I have minus winch), and I would talk to Fox, Downsouth Motorsports, or Accutune-offroad to see if they could ship the shocks with stiffer springs installed. Worth a shot.

x2 regarding spring rate. Without bumper and winch, 700lb will feel like a 1 ton truck.

Accutune will indeed spec spring rates based on use and weight and install them on an in-house tuned Fox shock.

 

[Inv4drZm]

From what I have read on this forum, on Filthy Motorsports website and videos, and everyone I’ve talked to at King, you can run the King OEM 2.5s (stock valving) much higher than 2.5”. That number is a “optimal ride” number, where the shocks are built to do their best work. The higher you go, the harsher the ride gets, which may not be a horrible thing if you like your plush SUV to ride like a truck. I personally do, my wife, not so much. Which is why I’m going with adjusters.

I believe you can also have up to an 800lb front coil installed, but most vendors will only recommend up to 700. I’m going with 700 in the front when I get mine.

I’ve spent the last month pieceing together my suspension as well. I looked at both Fox and King. I sourced advice from both manufacturers and vendors specializing in each set-up. I ended up buying King OEM extended travel shocks because

1. I’m not going to fiddle all that much with the adjusters except to find a comfortable on road setting, and a comfortable off-road setting. Others find the Fox DSC set up to be superior in as much as the tweaking you can do for high speed runs as well as slow crawling is more fine tuned while the King’s adjustment is more mid-to high speed adjustment. I don’t think I’ll have any problems dialing it in to fit my needs.

2. I love the fact that King is literally about a 30 minute drive from me. Their customer service is top notch, I actually called them up on a random weekday and within 3 minutes I was speaking with a shock tech about my rig. When I do rebuild, I will likely have a laundry list of improvements, and I like the fact that I can easily get a hold of someone who will help me.

Conversely, also from what I’ve read, the materials that Fox uses are super high quality stuff, superior in surface strength to pretty much anything else out there. They use higher quality viton seals right out of the box (you can add viton to any King shock as well, but it’s optional). If you aren’t planning on going with a custom tune, a local vendor I talked to claims Fox’s factory tuning leaves something to be desired, but there are a ton of vendors out there that will work with you to spec out custom valving from the factory, or before they deliver the parts, just be prepared to wait.

I have a friend who REALLY wanted Fox shocks because of DSC, and as mentioned above, was offered the Tundra shocks to get close to the travel he was looking for, but ultimately still didn’t provide the kind of travel he was looking for. He said Accutune was fairly helpful, and they specialize in Fox. But he’s going King’s as well.

I’m sure you and pretty much everyone else here is familiar with Filthy Motorsports and Accutune, but it’s worth mentioning that they both have really good info about King and Fox, respectively, on their websites. They are both in the business of custom tuning shocks, so they should know better than most.

Good luck with the build and I’m sure which ever way you go, you’ll probably be extremely happy.

I don't think the shocks will ride any different in different parts of their range, that's not how they work from my understanding, until you get into bypass shocks or you run out of travel. The angle of the control arms would probably effect the ride from what you describe though. The more angled down they are the more they transfer loads into the frame, the less work the shocks and springs can do.

King lists Viton seals as 'race application only' because they can leak at lower temps.

You are right, there are a lot of options out there, and you really can't go wrong.

 

[ChrisJHarney]

I don't think the shocks will ride any different in different parts of their range, that's not how they work from my understanding, until you get into bypass shocks or you run out of travel. The angle of the control arms would probably effect the ride from what you describe though. The more angled down they are the more they transfer loads into the frame, the less work the shocks and springs can do.

King lists Viton seals as 'race application only' because they can leak at lower temps.

You are right, there are a lot of options out there, and you really can't go wrong.

Thank you for the angle explaination, that makes perfect sense.

Interesting info about the Viton seals. Why would Fox (assuming Accutune is correct in their articles) use them in an OEM kit then if they would be prone to leak in a DD vehicle?

 

[blackoutt]

Front fox 2.5 dsc, spring rate can be changed too 700 no problem.

Rear, all these people talking about a shock with a spec'd max lift of 1.5" will ride fine higher, sure it might but you won't have much down travel. Get too long of a shock collapsed length and you won't have enough up travel (anything much longer than 17" is too much for stock shock mounts with 3" bumpstop stop). If you're wanting to do longer or long travel here's some rear shock measurements that should help, that 11.5" travel measurement seems to be the sweet spot.

I have fox 2.5 dsc fronts and used to have 2-3" lift fox 2.0 remote res single adjusters rear "Ext RR LSC", I now run fox 2.0 universal stem top 10" non resi for slightly more travel, lower price, and less complication. If I were to go all out with 2.5 rears I would have to look elsewhere than fox, they just don't make one off the shelf. King has the best measurements for a 2.5 long travel remote resi rear.

 

[Tuthmose]

Thank all of you very much - this has been extremely informative. I think it looks like a King setup from Accutune, who will tweak it properly, is going to be the ticket.

I appreciate you all taking the time to gather specs and offer advice!

 

[drbyrdman]

Thank you both for your help. Drbyrdman, do you run 2.0s or 2.5s on the rear?

It appears, based on further research, that I should give King a good hard look too. The issue I found there was that several sites posted information to the effect that they should not be used to lift about 2.5" Does anyone have confirmation or refutation of that?

Thanks again!

2.0 in the back. You can order the coilovers from Wheelers with 700lbs springs.

 

[Offcamber]

I have a friend who REALLY wanted Fox shocks because of DSC, and as mentioned above, was offered the Tundra shocks to get close to the travel he was looking for, but ultimately still didn’t provide the kind of travel he was looking for. He said Accutune was fairly helpful, and they specialize in Fox. But he’s going King’s as well.

The problem I ran into is tracking down a 2.5 shock with 11.5ish travel. ICON and King both have options, but Fox does not. Accutune spent more time than I expected helping me figure out a potential solution, including contacting Fox directly. Unfortunately, Fox could't - or wouldn't - build a shock with similar specs to the ICON or King shocks. The best option Fox has is a SuperDuty shock (Accutune can tweek it for our application) with 5.5" of uptravel and 10" of total travel, although it only gives you about .5" of more travel than the Tundra shock.