Help! Trying to pull the engine and stuck on the TC bolts

[settytb]

All,

I'm working on getting my engine out to get it replaced (it's a sad story...). We got everything off and disconnected but the blasted torque converter bolts. It's almost impossible to get on them and we are trying to figure out the size of the bolts. We are thinking 10 or 12mm but it's almost impossible to tell. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks!
Seth

 

[settytb]

To clarify TC = Torque converter. NOT transfer case in this situation

 

[having fun]

If everything is disconected but TC and useing a cherry picker, put a rag in the end of it and lift the engine with it on.

 

[MikeInNH]

Trial and error. ....

 

[Keros]

An idea here... order one bolt at the dealership to figure out the size. I'm sure it's not more than $10 and then you'd have a spare incase you mess one up on its way out.

Also, Might I recommend using flare nut wrenches if they're real tight and access is only via a wrench. The flare nut wrench will grasp the nut from all the edges and all but one sides... cutting the chance of rounding off the bolt. A box end will only grip the 6 edges and an open end wrench only uses two sides.

Best of luck man! Sounds like a real challenge.

 

[jdkilroy]

Just reviewed the manual: They indicate that the transmission should be "tilted down" before attempting to remove the six TC bolts. Supposed to make match marks before removing as well. Unfortunately, they do not indicate the size of those bolts, only the torque specs.

If you want/need the pages from the FSM, send me a PM and I'll email them to you.

Best of luck !

 

[having fun]

@ jdkilroy- So these newer vehicles like ours, your suposed to unbolt the torque converter before you can lift the engine out?

If this is so, was unaware of the changes they made for the newer vehicles. Never had to remove an engine on new school vehicles.

 

[TechWrench]

@ jdkilroy- So these newer vehicles like ours, your suposed to unbolt the torque converter before you can lift the engine out?

If this is so, was unaware of the changes they made for the newer vehicles. Never had to remove an engine on new school vehicles.

Just to be sure of what you are trying to say;

If you are intending to pull both the engine and trans as a unit (still bolted together), then it is not necessary to unbolt the torque converter from the flex plate. But, if you are intending to remove the engine WITHOUT the trans, then you most certainly should unbolt the torque converter from the flex plate, and leave it still inserted in the trans. If you try to pull the engine with the torque converter still attached to the flex plate, leaving the trans still in the vehicle, you will probably do damage to either the torque converter, the trans input/stator shafts, or both.

 

[jdkilroy]

@ jdkilroy- So these newer vehicles like ours, your suposed to unbolt the torque converter before you can lift the engine out?

If this is so, was unaware of the changes they made for the newer vehicles. Never had to remove an engine on new school vehicles.

To be honest, I was under the impression that engines and trannys are pulled together as that is what I have done in the past and that has been my limited experience with other vehicles. (my personal experience is limited to pre - 2000 era vehicles).

I am not attempting to provide instruction. OP asking how to get at the TC bolts so I'm assuming that he is trying to separate the transmission from engine while it is still in the vehicle. My info re TC removal comes from the Toyota service manual.

I would think that engine removal could only be easier if the tranny were removed first and in our vehicles, it appears that the TC must come out with the tranny.

 

[having fun]

I'm aware of when pulling the motor out with leaving the trans. in the vehicle to be CAREFUL due to the shaft. Just curious if that you had too detach the torque converter in the removal of the motor only.(mandatory).

I know in the later age vehicles it could leave a mess doing it that way do to fluid, but, sometimes you have to do what you have to do.

 

[TechWrench]

To be honest, I was under the impression that engines and trannys are pulled together as that is what I have done in the past and that has been my limited experience with other vehicles. (my personal experience is limited to pre - 2000 era vehicles).

I am not attempting to provide instruction. OP asking how to get at the TC bolts so I'm assuming that he is trying to separate the transmission from engine while it is still in the vehicle. My info re TC removal comes from the Toyota service manual.

I would think that engine removal could only be easier if the tranny were removed first and in our vehicles, it appears that the TC must come out with the tranny.

I have pulled both the engine and trans as a unit, in some instances. But, it really depends on what the reason for the removal is in the first place, and how much room you have in the engine compartment to work with, and what type of equipment you have to work with.

I used to work in a trans shop (many years ago), and have pulled many different types of trans from everything from small cars to big trucks. I can't recall one instance where it was necessary to pull the engine, in order to get the trans out. That being said, I always worked where there were lifts which enabled you to pull the trans from underneath. If you are going to pull the engine for an overhaul, or replacement, it would seem to me that leaving the trans in the vehicle is a lot less work than pulling both at the same time (and I always did it that way). You would need a lot more clearance to pull both units as one, and with the way most vehicles are built today (with the engine/trans being installed from below) on the assembly line, the design engineers don't always consider how hard they make it for the repair shops to do their jobs. It has always been my experience that dropping an engine into the engine compartment was MUCH easier if the trans wasn't attached. If I was going to replace both units on the same vehicle, I would install the engine first, then install the trans from below.

 

[TechWrench]

I'm aware of when pulling the motor out with leaving the trans. in the vehicle to be CAREFUL due to the shaft. Just curious if that you had too detach the torque converter in the removal of the motor only.(mandatory).

I know in the later age vehicles it could leave a mess doing it that way do to fluid, but, sometimes you have to do what you have to do.

I can't think of any reason to not detach the torque converter from the engine if you are only pulling the engine. But I have seen, and had to repair quite a few transmissions that were damaged by inexperienced 'mechanics' who didn't know better. Even if you managed to remove the engine, with the torque converter still attached, and left the trans in the vehicle. And, you didn't cause any damage to the trans input shafts, you would still have to remove the torque converter from the engine and install it back into the front of the trans (properly), before reinstalling the engine. This would then require you to bolt the torque converter back up to the flex plate in the same maner that you would have had to remove them if you left the torque converter in the trans in the first place. Trying to reinstall the torque converter back into the front pump on the trans while it is still attached to the engine is a sure fire way to do serious damage to the front trans pump, and torque converter internals.

 

[settytb]

Thanks for your help guys. There is a little dust shield that you can see the bolts but they are incredibly difficult to get anything on there. a socket is too big and a wrench I can't get the box end on at the angle. Such a PITA. I ordered new bolts from the dealer but of course they don't have them in stock... They'll be here earliest tuesday and I was hoping to get the swap done on this long weekend. I'll keep you all updated.

Thanks!
Seth

 

[03_4x4Runner]

You will have to figure out how to get them off because you will have to put it back together that way. When you put in the new engine the torque converter must be installed in the transmission first before you put the engine in place. The converter has to be rotated and pushed back untill the slotted tabs align with the input shaft tabs. You cannot do this with the converter attached to the engine when you reinstall it. If you do not get the slotts aligned you will cause major trans damage.

 

[ChaosStarter]

They're a 14mm (95% sure). Is it a V6 or V8? If it's a V6, then you'll need to pull the starter to get to the bolts. On a taco that I pulled a 1GR on, I used my impact gun and a bunch of extensions with a swivel socket to get to the bolts. There is also a black plastic cover that you have to remove after the starter (it slides right out) to access the bolts.

I haven't pulled a 2UZ yet, so I'm not sure off of the top of my head and am not at my dealership to look it up.

 

[TechWrench]

Thanks for your help guys. There is a little dust shield that you can see the bolts but they are incredibly difficult to get anything on there. a socket is too big and a wrench I can't get the box end on at the angle. Such a PITA. I ordered new bolts from the dealer but of course they don't have them in stock... They'll be here earliest tuesday and I was hoping to get the swap done on this long weekend. I'll keep you all updated.

Thanks!
Seth

If you can't get at them with a short 3/8 socket and breaker bar, then you might need a set of off-set wrenches. I have a set that I used for years that worked well on torque converter bolts. They have a 1" parallel off-set that works much better than the angle head used om most combo wrench sets. Rotating the flex-plate to get at all six bolts will be the hard part. You may have to use a flat blade screwdriver to lever against the ring gear teeth one tooth at a time to get to each bolt.

 

[settytb]

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