Help with A/C please; dealer wants 160.

[Carl_G]

Can someone pls give me some instructions or a link on how to add some refrigerant to the air conditioning please. It's a 2003 v8 and the air conditioner works but not quite cold enough. Dealer wants 160 to empty, refill, test, etc. All I want to do is add a bit of refrigerant and see how it works out. If it still has issues then of course I will take I to the dealer. I can get a recharge kit for 70, including protective eyewear.

I know a bit about the a/c like where the high side is, low side, where the aluminum tubing enters the firewall, and where the drain hose is. Btw when the a/c is on air blows out of this hose. Is this normal?

I asked them if they could simply add a bit of refrigerant and they said no.

Thanks very much.

 

[av8or]

best to have a qualified person do it.. first of all, you can't buy the refrigerant off the shelf, you would need a license to do that ( at least here in the us )... then, it's not a matter of just adding the refrigerant.. you would need to know how much to add.. too much and the system won't work...

but if your still persistent... http://www.aa1car.com/library/ac_recharging.htm... good luck

 

[Jed]

You can buy the refrigerant without a license...they sell refill canisters almost everywhere. The older cars used R12 (Freon) and since it was outlawed, you do need a license to legally purchase it....but no such issue on a 4th gen 4Runner.

To the OP: Do a quick YouTube search and you'll find some good instructional videos on adding refrigerant to an A/C system that's a little low. It's really very easy and should save you a bunch of $$$

 

[aaronfro17]

You can buy the refrigerant without a license...they sell refill canisters almost everywhere. The older cars used R12 (Freon) and since it was outlawed, you do need a license to legally purchase it....but no such issue on a 4th gen 4Runner.

To the OP: Do a quick YouTube search and you'll find some good instructional videos on adding refrigerant to an A/C system that's a little low. It's really very easy and should save you a bunch of $$$

:iagree: I've done it several times on my old truck (well not that old, 2000). Go to Wal-Mart buy a refill, add it to the system, be careful not to overpressurize and enjoy your cold AC again.

 

[riverider]

Got WalMart and look for this Freon 134A kit in the Auto Dept.
It's a no brainer for adding freon to your A/C system. First you stick the low pressure fitting, then start your 4Runner turn on A/C with blower on high, let it run about five minuets. Then press trigger of the charging unit. Check the pressure if not in the green range, install the 134A Freon can. and start adding some freon to your system.

Also I advise reading the instructions that come with the unit. I think it's about $15 and Freon is around $8. It works for me, Good luck. :driving:

 

[borgzman]

I'm 100% going to the DIY refill..and will buy a refrigerant recharge kit for my vehicles because of practicality and economic reasons.

But the $160($125 here) at the stealership can be justifiable. Our vehicle is not new in 5 yrs time, general vibrations could cause loosening in the connection hoses or leak in the compressor seal(Isn't it possible??). So maybe the Toyota techs will pressure test the system, if leaks are noticed seal it back, evacuate existing refrigerant and refill. It can't be done in 30 mins and the labor cost is killing us..pluuss tax LOL!
We can buy a recharge kit for $20, with possible leaks unknown..then next summer buy again ha! ha! Ha! or have it diagnosed after all in my case, the vehicle(2003 model) is 8 yrs old and is due for A/C performance test..

LOL! but I'll still choose the DIY $20..:biggrin2:

 

[Jed]

I'm 100% going to the DIY refill..and will buy a refrigerant recharge kit for my vehicles because of practicality and economic reasons.

But the $160($125 here) at the stealership can be justifiable. Our vehicle is not new in 5 yrs time, general vibrations could cause loosening in the connection hoses or leak in the compressor seal(Isn't it possible??). So maybe the Toyota techs will pressure test the system, if leaks are noticed seal it back, evacuate existing refrigerant and refill. It can't be done in 30 mins and the labor cost is killing us..pluuss tax LOL!
We can buy a recharge kit for $20, with possible leaks unknown..then next summer buy again ha! ha! Ha! or have it diagnosed after all in my case, the vehicle(2003 model) is 8 yrs old and is due for A/C performance test..

LOL! but I'll still choose the DIY $20..:biggrin2:

You have some good points. It is always a good idea to get the A/C system serviced properly if it is in need of repair. However, it's not uncommon for older vehicles to need a simple recharge of the refrigerant. In that case, it's quick and easy for an owner to do it himself and save some money.

If you are worried about leaks, you can buy a dye that you inject into the A/C system. Then you just use a black light on the A/C plumbing to look for leaks. Quick and easy, no hassle at all. If you find a leak, then by all means bring it to a qualified service professional to fix it properly. This is the same method that the professional use, as there is no pressure testing of an A/C system to detect leaks.

 

[borgzman]

If you are worried about leaks, you can buy a dye that you inject into the A/C system. Then you just use a black light on the A/C plumbing to look for leaks. Quick and easy, no hassle at all. If you find a leak, then by all means bring it to a qualified service professional to fix it properly. This is the same method that the professional use, as there is no pressure testing of an A/C system to detect leaks.

Thank you about the "dye" trick..:thumb3:

Wow, this is fun!

 

[Jed]

Thank you about the "dye" trick..:thumb3:

Wow, this is fun!

That's the "pro" way. You can also use a mixture of dish soap and water and spray it all over the A/C plumbing. If you see bubbles, you got a leak! The only problem with this method is that some leaks are so tiny that they can be really hard to detect.

Another way to spot A/C leaks is to look at all the connections in the A/C plumbing and check for dust stuck to oil. This works because A/C systems have oil mixed with their refrigerant. When there's a leak, the oil bleeds out onto the rubber hoses and attracts dust. So if you see that near connections, you can be sure that there's at least a small leak there.

Yeah, I used to do a lot of work on automotive A/C systems if you were wondering.

 

[riverider]

I'm 100% going to the DIY refill..and will buy a refrigerant recharge kit for my vehicles because of practicality and economic reasons.

But the $160($125 here) at the stealership can be justifiable. Our vehicle is not new in 5 yrs time, general vibrations could cause loosening in the connection hoses or leak in the compressor seal(Isn't it possible??). So maybe the Toyota techs will pressure test the system, if leaks are noticed seal it back, evacuate existing refrigerant and refill. It can't be done in 30 mins and the labor cost is killing us..pluuss tax LOL!
We can buy a recharge kit for $20, with possible leaks unknown..then next summer buy again ha! ha! Ha! or have it diagnosed after all in my case, the vehicle(2003 model) is 8 yrs old and is due for A/C performance test..

LOL! but I'll still choose the DIY $20..:biggrin2:

It's common to find signs of small leakage on hose fittings and at the compressor clutch end. My 82 Bronco and 98 Nissan both show them. Small leaks happen. Does this mean you need hundreds in repairs? No adding some freon will get your system cooling 99.9% of the time. And you can do it yourself.

I had a clutch go out on the 82 Bronco, bought one at PepBoys for $65 and installed it myself, the inside snap ring was the hardest item.

About 20 years ago I picked up around 10 cans of freon 12, when the cooling falls off, I add a can. This has worked for many years.

Last year I picked up the 134A freon kit, and charged the 98 Nissan for the first time. One can of 134A is all that was needed.

If you really have a failure then you need the cooling experts, for most of us just a charging is all that is needed.:sleepy:

 

[Burt]

I have a 84 1/2 mustang that lost its AC over the winter not long ago. Took it to a shop and they said that R12 is banned, therefore new seals are required so that 134A could be used. OK, they replaced seals, charged with 134A with dye. No problems for 3 years now.
FYI - the 4Runner AC is kinda weak in comparison. But I found it blows much cooler air if I set the temp to "LO". Just keep pushing the temp down until display says "LO". It is like the auto temp setting is mixing some hot air with the cool air??

 

[Jed]

FYI - the 4Runner AC is kinda weak in comparison. But I found it blows much cooler air if I set the temp to "LO". Just keep pushing the temp down until display says "LO". It is like the auto temp setting is mixing some hot air with the cool air??

LOL, yes of course it does. It's automatic climate control. You will only get maximum cooling when you have it set to "LO", otherwise it will allow some heat into the system to maintain the temperature you selected. You should noticed that the A/C system runs balls out constantly in LO, but any setting above low and the system will regulate itself once it reaches that temperature to maintain it.

 

[riverider]

I have a 84 1/2 mustang that lost its AC over the winter not long ago. Took it to a shop and they said that R12 is banned, therefore new seals are required so that 134A could be used. OK, they replaced seals, charged with 134A with dye. No problems for 3 years now.
FYI - the 4Runner AC is kinda weak in comparison. But I found it blows much cooler air if I set the temp to "LO". Just keep pushing the temp down until display says "LO". It is like the auto temp setting is mixing some hot air with the cool air??

The R12 seals will work fine with the 134A Freon, shops like to suck extra money replacing them, many time they just use the 134A retro Kit fittings, shoot in the 134A, and tell people they replaced the seals.

I have heard of shops telling people they needed a new 134A compressor, that is a lie. Beware of who you deal with, when getting converted from R12 to 134A.:lightsaber:

 

[Burt]

The R12 seals will work fine with the 134A Freon, shops like to suck extra money replacing them, many time they just use the 134A retro Kit fittings, shoot in the 134A, and tell people they replaced the seals.

I have heard of shops telling people they needed a new 134A compressor, that is a lie. Beware of who you deal with, when getting converted from R12 to 134A.:lightsaber:

True, but in my case, the R12 was completely depleted, so new seals were justified with dye.

 

[borgzman]

I just did this today in my Tucson. The refrigerant I bought is EZ Chill from Walmart, its $23 including the hose and gauge assembly and instructions are very easy.

By reading the instructions, it did mention about an "ambient temp" where they define as the air temp of the work environment surrounding the vehicle. At that temp there is a corresponding Low Side Gauge pressure. And by just looking at the gauge needle pointing to green/yellow /red my pressure don't need to be filled. But LOL! I missed to check the table and so I charged it until the recomended pressure was reach. And it consume maybe half of the 18oz container. And yes, it cools better and faster now.

Again, I followed the procedure in the charging kit..Should I need to follow the sight glass method, then thank you, I'll pay $130 Ha!ha! ha!

Most refrigerant refill like the one I bought have "Leak Sealer"..ohh really?

Update: Also done with the 4Runner, its easier than the Tucson because the Low side is very accessible and it sucked the the remaining refrigerant fast! until stable recommended pressure was reached and so as emptied the can. I think I need to check it back when the outside temp rises to 90F plus, if the pressure drop then I'll buy another refill can.

 

[BamBam]

Use the dye for sure. It is a big money saver. I know that we had a dealer check ours out because it was under warranty. Those jackholes charged us for refrigerant, but not labor or anything (which was fine). But the next day it leaked all out. I went back to them and they said "Hey, we tried. Tough luck." So I go to this other guy and ask him what he'd do and he said the dye trick which I hadn't even heard of. He did it and about an hour later we find that there is a hole in the evaporator that was causing the problem. We ordered the part online dirt cheap, he installed it, and charged it back up. We were freezing after that, and it was something we NEVER would have found without the dye kit.

They work really well. Just make sure you check it shortly after putting the dye in and running it. If it is spewing out pretty quickly then it can cause it to fly all over the place and it will be difficult to pinpoint the exact leak location. I've seen leaks caused by everything from the things mentioned like connections rattling loose, to a rock bouncing up and nicking a metal tube. I've also seen cases of sticks going through and puncturing things, and I even saw one where the hood was rubbing on a hose and created a pinhole because the hood leveler adjustable knob thing was set slightly too low on one side. AC is a fickle thing. As long as there are no leaks then it should continue to run well as it is a sealed system. There is no need to ever "top it off" unless it has a hole in the system (likely) or unless it was underfilled originally from the factory (which I've seen maybe once in my life).

 

[Jed]

... There is no need to ever "top it off" unless it has a hole in the system (likely) or unless it was underfilled originally from the factory (which I've seen maybe once in my life).

Some of the A/C lines are rubber (not all are metal) and the rubber can be a tiny bit porous, allowing small amounts of refrigerant to escape over the years. Also, connections between components and lines may not always be 100% leak proof, even when new. It's nice to think the entire A/C system is 100% sealed and will not lose any refrigerant at all, but most systems do lose a small amount of refrigerant over time and will eventually require an additional charge. These systems may not show any real signs of a leak and are considered normal.

My own 4Runner is coming up on 7 years old now (wow, it sure doesn't seem that long!) and the A/C is still perfect without any need for additional refrigerant yet, so I'm happy about that...

 

[riverider]

Some of the A/C lines are rubber (not all are metal) and the rubber can be a tiny bit porous, allowing small amounts of refrigerant to escape over the years. Also, connections between components and lines may not always be 100% leak proof, even when new. It's nice to think the entire A/C system is 100% sealed and will not lose any refrigerant at all, but most systems do lose a small amount of refrigerant over time and will eventually require an additional charge. These systems may not show any real signs of a leak and are considered normal.

My own 4Runner is coming up on 7 years old now (wow, it sure doesn't seem that long!) and the A/C is still perfect without any need for additional refrigerant yet, so I'm happy about that...

last year I added the first can of freon to my 98 Nissan Maxima, 11 years is pretty good right?
So I feel people can expect their A/C systems to work for many years.:hungry:

 

[borgzman]

My 4Runner is fine after charging with probably 9 0z of refrigerant. I drove it at 100F while changing different AC settings. It cools better and no problem.

But, But I messed up the Tucson
I charged it first at 9 pm, basically I was a rookie(first timer charging AC).
It cools fine, at first I didn't notice a thing bad because I use the vehicle for short trips.
Later, After 7 to 10 mins of driving, It Cycles ON and OFF - interval of 4 secs.
Could be High Pressure Cut-off switch or could be mixed with air??
I think, when charging, without precise equipment is a gamble. Those DIY kits provide only the Low Side Gauge and I didn't read about evacuating the existing refrigerant. Also its hard to determine the ambient temp here in Central CA w/ dessert like heat.

My solution: Discharge the refrigerant, Vacuum the system and recharge with correct weight as specified. Of course me printing coupon now LOL! its $29-see Firestone Website, additional for refrigerant used. I didn't use the vehicle, it may cause further damage.

Lesson learned : For $29, not bad leave it to the pro( if you feel confident then go ahead). We can't actually determine how much refrigerant is in there, By basing on the cheapy pressure gauge w/c has higher percentage of error and greatly affected by the temp of the surrounding is a gamble. We might overcharged it, mixed w/ air or liquid getting in.

 

[NCSCOTT]

My 4Runner is fine after charging with probably 9 0z of refrigerant. I drove it at 100F while changing different AC settings. It cools better and no problem.

But, But I messed up the Tucson
I charged it first at 9 pm, basically I was a rookie(first timer charging AC).
It cools fine, at first I didn't notice a thing bad because I use the vehicle for short trips.
Later, After 7 to 10 mins of driving, It Cycles ON and OFF - interval of 4 secs.
Could be High Pressure Cut-off switch or could be mixed with air??
I think, when charging, without precise equipment is a gamble. Those DIY kits provide only the Low Side Gauge and I didn't read about evacuating the existing refrigerant. Also its hard to determine the ambient temp here in Central CA w/ dessert like heat.

My solution: Discharge the refrigerant, Vacuum the system and recharge with correct weight as specified. Of course me printing coupon now LOL! its $29-see Firestone Website, additional for refrigerant used. I didn't use the vehicle, it may cause further damage.

Lesson learned : For $29, not bad leave it to the pro( if you feel confident then go ahead). We can't actually determine how much refrigerant is in there, By basing on the cheapy pressure gauge w/c has higher percentage of error and greatly affected by the temp of the surrounding is a gamble. We might overcharged it, mixed w/ air or liquid getting in.

Ambient temp is just the average temp at that time. The current air temp in the shade. So if you have an outdoor thermometer in your garage or anywhere in the shade and not direct sunlight, it should be pretty close. Or just go to the weather channel and look at the temp for your area, it will be close enough. A few degrees either way will not make a huge difference. The 4 second interval on/off of the compressor is called short cycling. It is very bad for the compressor. It will eventually burn it up.