High Beam Issue

J

johnsonnate

New member
As some of you know, I recently retrofitted some projectors. They've been awesome, but I find myself wanting my high beam indicator back, now I've searched the site, and found a couple of threads with the same issue, but unfortunately no solutions.

Post 1

Post 2

Post 3

The second link has a suggestion to look for the guy that has the FJ, I found said post Here.

I tried what he did, and low and behold, it didn't work. So, I'm curious if anybody has a solution to this for our runners. In one of the above posts, TheDurk asks if the guy had DRLs , so to answer that question, should you have it, I do not have stock DRLs.

I'd appreciate any input.
 
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You basically need to 'replace' the low beam filament of your old headlights with a resistor to power that bulb. What happens when the high beams are on is that power through the low beam filament turns on the dash indicator.

If the fix that the FJ guy did didn't work for you, you will need to try lower value resistor of higher wattage - and maybe different pins on the bulb connector. I used two 5W, 100 ohm resistors when I had this issue on my WRX.

-Charlie
 
phattyduck said:
You basically need to 'replace' the low beam filament of your old headlights with a resistor to power that bulb. What happens when the high beams are on is that power through the low beam filament turns on the dash indicator.

If the fix that the FJ guy did didn't work for you, you will need to try lower value resistor of higher wattage - and maybe different pins on the bulb connector. I used two 5W, 100 ohm resistors when I had this issue on my WRX.

-Charlie
Click to expand...
Alright, I'll give it a shot, I was using 1/4W 1 kohm; I'll try 1W 500 ohm. See if that works.
 
phattyduck said:
You basically need to 'replace' the low beam filament of your old headlights with a resistor to power that bulb. What happens when the high beams are on is that power through the low beam filament turns on the dash indicator.

If the fix that the FJ guy did didn't work for you, you will need to try lower value resistor of higher wattage - and maybe different pins on the bulb connector. I used two 5W, 100 ohm resistors when I had this issue on my WRX.

-Charlie
Click to expand...

You are correct--sort of. Obviously the low beam power doesn't turn on the high beam indicator because there IS no power through the low beam filament when on high. What is true, as I understand it, is the high beam indicator is really a 'lows not on' indicator. We don't get the internal wiring of the cluster to know HOW this is done, but that is how it works. The low beam on my non-DRL 4Runner is ground switched. So all we know for sure is that when the cluster sees ground on the low beam, the high indicator comes on with power from the cluster and full-time ground on the other side.

The system on the DRL trucks is even more opaque. The EWD shows the indicator is powered from the DRL relay (more of a computer) but also seems to be tied to the low circuit in a similar fashion, although the high/lows on DRL trucks are hot switched.

In any case, my point is, I would not assume that what works on a DRL truck would work on a non-DRL truck. Also, if you install HIDs/LEDs and simultaneously disable DRLs on a DRL truck, that may be part of the problem, because the DRL circuit is in charge of the high beam indicator trigger. Since DRLs are disabled in different ways on different years over the three years that have them, what works on one year with DRLs may not work on another.

Sorry, but my contribution is more confusion rather than answers.

If I had to do this on a DRL, I would first identify the high beam indicator trigger on the DRL relay. On a 2002, that's a blue-black wire on Pin 12, and see what it does (polarity and voltage) on high beam and low beam before I disabled the DRLs and installed the HIDs/LEDs. Then, if the behavior is different when I'm done, I'd figure a way to simulate it from the HID circuit and remove that wire from the DRL box. That would pretty much have to work.
 
Last edited:
I would agree with dirk, that the drl's are different year to year.
On my 2000 SR-5 I unplugged the DRL to kill that function, yet my high beam light indicator still comes on.
However I am just running halogens still (Piaa extreme) not HID's or LED's

waiting for better reviews of the LED's
 
When I had my 3rd gen I had several things come up when I did my LED headlight swap. I noticed that I could turn on the hi beams but had no indicator, I could also run the hi beams by turning on the fog light switch on the tree... really weird I know but when I turned the fogs to the on position the hi beams would come on. I had removed my fogs when I installed my aftermarket bumper and never reinstalled them. What I found was that because of the way the LEDs were placed, I could run the hi beams all the time without ever having other drivers flash me. I liked this because I was able to get more light output. If I had to do it again tho I would stay away from the LEDs in the halogen housing, I feel that the temperature of the bulb was exactly what I wanted but usable light output was less than what I wanted for how bright they were.
 
lext4r said:
I'm running a retrofit and my highbeam indicator turns on just fine.

However, I am using the morimoto control unit and also running 50w HIDs.
https://www.theretrofitsource.com/components/harnesses/motocontrol-bi-xenon-h4-9003.html
Click to expand...

I'm running the morimoto control unit as well, but 35w HIDs. I don't see why that would have anything to do with it though.

TheDurk said:
You are correct--sort of. Obviously the low beam power doesn't turn on the high beam indicator because there IS no power through the low beam filament when on high. What is true, as I understand it, is the high beam indicator is really a 'lows not on' indicator. We don't get the internal wiring of the cluster to know HOW this is done, but that is how it works. The low beam on my non-DRL 4Runner is ground switched. So all we know for sure is that when the cluster sees ground on the low beam, the high indicator comes on with power from the cluster and full-time ground on the other side.

The system on the DRL trucks is even more opaque. The EWD shows the indicator is powered from the DRL relay (more of a computer) but also seems to be tied to the low circuit in a similar fashion, although the high/lows on DRL trucks are hot switched.

In any case, my point is, I would not assume that what works on a DRL truck would work on a non-DRL truck. Also, if you install HIDs and simultaneously disable DRLs on a DRL truck, that may be part of the problem, because the DRL circuit is in charge of the high beam indicator trigger. Since DRLs are disabled in different ways on different years over the three years that have them, what works on one year with DRLs may not work on another.

Sorry, but my contribution is more confusion rather than answers.

If I had to do this on a DRL, I would first isolate the high beam indicator trigger on the DRL relay. On a 2002, that's a blue-black wire on Pin 12, and see what it does (polarity and voltage) on high beam and low beam before I disabled the DRLs and installed the HIDs. Then, if the behavior is different when I'm done, I'd figure a way to simulate it from the HID circuit and remove that wire from the DRL box. That would pretty much have to work.
Click to expand...

I knew that it was a "lows not on" indicator, and so I'm curious if i have to go about using these resistors differently.

3bears said:
I would agree with dirk, that the drl's are different year to year.
On my 2000 SR-5 I unplugged the DRL to kill that function, yet my high beam light indicator still comes on.
However I am just running halogens still (Piaa extreme) not HID's or LED's

waiting for better reviews of the LED's
Click to expand...

Luckily, I don't have to worry about the DRLs. But I just wish that indicator would work.

Mr.Rick said:
When I had my 3rd gen I had several things come up when I did my LED headlight swap. I noticed that I could turn on the hi beams but had no indicator, I could also run the hi beams by turning on the fog light switch on the tree... really weird I know but when I turned the fogs to the on position the hi beams would come on. I had removed my fogs when I installed my aftermarket bumper and never reinstalled them. What I found was that because of the way the LEDs were placed, I could run the hi beams all the time without ever having other drivers flash me. I liked this because I was able to get more light output. If I had to do it again tho I would stay away from the LEDs in the halogen housing, I feel that the temperature of the bulb was exactly what I wanted but usable light output was less than what I wanted for how bright they were.
Click to expand...

I never had anything like that happen, that's weird.

So, after work this morning I went back to RadioShack (holy crap, they still exist) and picked up some 240 ohm 1/2w resistors, and 640 ohm 1/2w resistors. Got home, and try'd both of them...nada, neither worked, in every combination of the plugs. So, I'm just gonna keep going along this route and swing by there tomorrow and grab some high ohm, low wattage resistors. Luckily RadioShack is having a giant sale right now, so these resistors are like $.99 for a pack of 5. If I find one thats works, I'll have a bunch of random resistors in the garage. :thumb3:
 
TheDurk said:
You are correct--sort of. Obviously the low beam power doesn't turn on the high beam indicator because there IS no power through the low beam filament when on high. What is true, as I understand it, is the high beam indicator is really a 'lows not on' indicator. We don't get the internal wiring of the cluster to know HOW this is done, but that is how it works. The low beam on my non-DRL 4Runner is ground switched. So all we know for sure is that when the cluster sees ground on the low beam, the high indicator comes on with power from the cluster and full-time ground on the other side.

The system on the DRL trucks is even more opaque. The EWD shows the indicator is powered from the DRL relay (more of a computer) but also seems to be tied to the low circuit in a similar fashion, although the high/lows on DRL trucks are hot switched.

In any case, my point is, I would not assume that what works on a DRL truck would work on a non-DRL truck. Also, if you install HIDs/LEDs and simultaneously disable DRLs on a DRL truck, that may be part of the problem, because the DRL circuit is in charge of the high beam indicator trigger. Since DRLs are disabled in different ways on different years over the three years that have them, what works on one year with DRLs may not work on another.

Sorry, but my contribution is more confusion rather than answers.

If I had to do this on a DRL, I would first identify the high beam indicator trigger on the DRL relay. On a 2002, that's a blue-black wire on Pin 12, and see what it does (polarity and voltage) on high beam and low beam before I disabled the DRLs and installed the HIDs/LEDs. Then, if the behavior is different when I'm done, I'd figure a way to simulate it from the HID circuit and remove that wire from the DRL box. That would pretty much have to work.
Click to expand...
In this case, we are working with a NON-DRL truck:

johnsonnate said:
I do not have stock DRLs.

I'd appreciate any input.
Click to expand...

I can pretty much guarantee that one side of the high-beam indicator in the cluster is grounded. The other side is connected to the 'low-switched' side of the low beam filament. That is shown pretty clearly in the diagrams.

The small amount of current pulled through the high beam indicator bulb is not enough to 'light' the low beam filament and it acts like a short, in this case. And the low-beam filament absolutely has 12V on both sides with the headlight relay is triggered but the low beams are off.

DRL vehicles - yes, it can be different. 'Replacing' the low filament with a resistor in those cases is still *probably* the right way to fool the DRL relay, but that might not be correct in all cases. The 1k resistor worked on the FJ probably because of the DRL control system. Without DRLs, you need a lower value resistor to get the dash bulb to turn on.

-Charlie
 
phattyduck said:
In this case, we are working with a NON-DRL truck:



I can pretty much guarantee that one side of the high-beam indicator in the cluster is grounded. The other side is connected to the 'low-switched' side of the low beam filament. That is shown pretty clearly in the diagrams.

The small amount of current pulled through the high beam indicator bulb is not enough to 'light' the low beam filament and it acts like a short, in this case. And the low-beam filament absolutely has 12V on both sides with the headlight relay is triggered but the low beams are off.

DRL vehicles - yes, it can be different. 'Replacing' the low filament with a resistor in those cases is still *probably* the right way to fool the DRL relay, but that might not be correct in all cases. The 1k resistor worked on the FJ probably because of the DRL control system. Without DRLs, you need a lower value resistor to get the dash bulb to turn on.

-Charlie
Click to expand...
Ok, I see what you are saying. They are using the cold filament as a resistor to feed the indicator LED. So if that bulb disappears, then some other resistor must be substituted to provide a low-voltage power source to fire the indicator.

I retract my objection on that point.

With DRLs though, it can't work that way because the indicator is still clearly grounded on one side full-time and the low filament is hot-switched. I'm guessing the clusters were not reengineered, and the DRL relay just synthesizes that signal. It certainly had to be that way when DRLs were only in Canada and the rest of North America did without. So, I would suggest if you measured the cold resistance of the filament (you can't use Ohm's Law because a hot filament has a higher R than a cold one), and connected the trigger wire from the cluster to one end of a resistor with that value, and the other to the hot-switched HIGH beam supply to the LEDs, the indicator should come on with the highs.

It would certainly be worth a try if nothing else worked.
 
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TheDurk said:
Ok, I see what you are saying. They are using the cold filament as a resistor to feed the indicator LED. So if that bulb disappears, then some other resistor must be substituted to provide a low-voltage power source to fire the indicator.

I retract my objection on that point.

With DRLs though, it can't work that way because the indicator is still clearly grounded on one side full-time and the low filament is hot-switched. I'm guessing the clusters were not reengineered, and the DRL relay just synthesizes that signal. It certainly had to be that way when DRLs were only in Canada and the rest of North America did without. So, I would suggest if you measured the cold resistance of the filament (you can't use Ohm's Law because a hot filament has a higher R than a cold one), and connected the trigger wire from the cluster to one end of a resistor with that value, and the other to the hot-switched HIGH beam supply to the LEDs, the indicator should come on with the highs.

It would certainly be worth a try if nothing else worked.
Click to expand...
I'm gonna apologize right now, and say that I have absolutely no idea what almost all of the means...can you explain that in terms an idiot would understand? And also maybe a diagram?
 
johnsonnate said:
I'm gonna apologize right now, and say that I have absolutely no idea what almost all of the means...can you explain that in terms an idiot would understand? And also maybe a diagram?
Click to expand...

well, if you have a '99, it's not really relevant to you. But here are the diagrams--may not help much...

http://tacoma.site40.net/4Runner_96-02_Repair&Wiring/techinfo.toyota.com/ileaf/ewdtmc2/ewdtmpdf/ewdsourc/2002/024runne/systemci/019hl.pdf

http://tacoma.site40.net/4Runner_96-02_Repair&Wiring/techinfo.toyota.com/ileaf/ewdtmc2/ewdtmpdf/ewdsourc/2002/024runne/systemci/020hldrl.pdf
 
 
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