bensanders
New member
Agreed, that's why I initially said I didn't notice a difference..and good point on the MPGs.
Higher octane vs lower octane gas
- Thread starter mitre
- Start date
Agreed, that's why I initially said I didn't notice a difference..and good point on the MPGs.
OBVIOUSLY you don't know what you're talking about. Sorry...but you haven't a clue. You are the PERFECT patsy that Gas companies LOVE.
Facts About Premium and Regular Gas | TrueCar Blog
USATODAY.com - Why use premium gas when regular will do?
The Low-Down on High Octane Gasoline
There are THOUSANDS more where those came from.
bensanders
New member
I'VE already STATED that I don't USE PREMIUM. I USE regular and DON'T notice any DIFFERENCE. Also FIX your CAPS button, I think SOMETHING'S wrong WITH it.
Ok. Again, a little more technical understanding. The determined specs in which the manufacturer states the specific engine output at a specific power band is based, in part, on the type of fuel.
As stated, their is no difference in power potential in the various levels of gas commonly available; but different engines operate under different specs. Modern cars, most, have complex knock determinants and computers that adjust the timing. This can rob or gain access to the total power of the fuel.
At best, a gasoline engine access about 50% of stored power. Gas is horribly inefficient. I love the rumble of my v8, but electric charge stored in batteries is 98% usable.
Anyway. If you use 89, you reach spec. If you use 87, you will literally notice NO difference, but there will be a calculated power difference. Nothing but a dyno could actually notice it, but it will be there.
Make sense?
As stated, their is no difference in power potential in the various levels of gas commonly available; but different engines operate under different specs. Modern cars, most, have complex knock determinants and computers that adjust the timing. This can rob or gain access to the total power of the fuel.
At best, a gasoline engine access about 50% of stored power. Gas is horribly inefficient. I love the rumble of my v8, but electric charge stored in batteries is 98% usable.
Anyway. If you use 89, you reach spec. If you use 87, you will literally notice NO difference, but there will be a calculated power difference. Nothing but a dyno could actually notice it, but it will be there.
Make sense?
JB.
New member
Perhaps you have a rare, early run 2003 manual, but the 2003 PDF manual states just what jwyshrek wrote.
As for the gas cap sticker, it would be interesting to see a pic.
I have a 2003 with the V8 and neither the gas door nor the owners manual say "premium should only be used." The manual says on page 353:
Unleaded gasoline, Octane Rating 87
(Research Octane Number 91) or higher.
For improved vehicle performance, the
use of premium unleaded gasoline with
an Octane Rating of 91 (Research Octane
Number 96) or higher is recommended.
Unleaded gasoline, Octane Rating 87
(Research Octane Number 91) or higher.
For improved vehicle performance, the
use of premium unleaded gasoline with
an Octane Rating of 91 (Research Octane
Number 96) or higher is recommended.
More to the point.. it is all about pinging. There is nothing in 93 that makes it "better" than 87 in any way, except for its anti-knock additives.
Nada. I and many on here can attest that in running 87, we experience 0 pinging. I have experienced NONE, not even minor pinging in the 10k miles I have put on mine.
If you wish to run premium grade gasoline, you will get slightly better MPG and slightly better horsepower. These are not bad things.... and you as a consumer have the God given right to purchase any damn product you want. If putting 93 makes you feel good then do it. Don't let anyone bicker or complain to you about it. I believe a notorious member was recently banned, but he was a pushy sort who considered his opinion the word of the almighty...
The only thing we as a community are trying to impart is this: Higher grade is not needed. It will have no detrimental impact. This is an assertion that is proven by years of actual, real world research and real life experience.
Nada. I and many on here can attest that in running 87, we experience 0 pinging. I have experienced NONE, not even minor pinging in the 10k miles I have put on mine.
If you wish to run premium grade gasoline, you will get slightly better MPG and slightly better horsepower. These are not bad things.... and you as a consumer have the God given right to purchase any damn product you want. If putting 93 makes you feel good then do it. Don't let anyone bicker or complain to you about it. I believe a notorious member was recently banned, but he was a pushy sort who considered his opinion the word of the almighty...
The only thing we as a community are trying to impart is this: Higher grade is not needed. It will have no detrimental impact. This is an assertion that is proven by years of actual, real world research and real life experience.
JB.
New member
Not disputing, just have a couple of pertinent questions.
Ping, as you're using it, is defined by a perceived noise. Ignoring the rather large variable of different ears and noise environments, is it not possible there could be a pre-audible band of non-optimum combustion that could have some implications for, if nothing else, say, engine longevity?
Are we sure the detergent and other additive packages in regular are identical in type and concentration compared with premium?
I doubt any of this adds up to premium being preferred, but they seem like reasonable questions.
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Yes. Pinging is the audible part of pre-detonation. Pre-Detonation is what we call "knocking".
If you can't hear it, then there isn't really any occurring. This is because pre-detonation is pretty intense explosion occurring at the wrong time in the combustion cycle.
And as for non-audible.... I get what your saying, but look at it like this: Explosions, which is really what gas engines are... controlled explosive devices, are LOUD and you can hear it.
As for longevity, this is where I was pointing to some pretty serious research. I am all about actual evidence. I hate anecdotal evidence. Every peer reviewed article I have ever read has found little issue in longevity, due specifically to that fact that the engines are designed to run multi-grade fuel.
Car makers have for, at least, the last 30 years since the move to EFI and computer controlled timing...designed their cars to operate on all commonly available fuels.
As for additives.. I won't say that their isn't any. There are countless fuel makers, and they all have their own proprietary blend of additives, but again, I have never seen anything from regular to premium other than the anti-knock octane rating.
Chevron, for example, puts "techron" (its engine cleaner additive) in all grades I believe.
If you can't hear it, then there isn't really any occurring. This is because pre-detonation is pretty intense explosion occurring at the wrong time in the combustion cycle.
And as for non-audible.... I get what your saying, but look at it like this: Explosions, which is really what gas engines are... controlled explosive devices, are LOUD and you can hear it.
As for longevity, this is where I was pointing to some pretty serious research. I am all about actual evidence. I hate anecdotal evidence. Every peer reviewed article I have ever read has found little issue in longevity, due specifically to that fact that the engines are designed to run multi-grade fuel.
Car makers have for, at least, the last 30 years since the move to EFI and computer controlled timing...designed their cars to operate on all commonly available fuels.
As for additives.. I won't say that their isn't any. There are countless fuel makers, and they all have their own proprietary blend of additives, but again, I have never seen anything from regular to premium other than the anti-knock octane rating.
Chevron, for example, puts "techron" (its engine cleaner additive) in all grades I believe.
For the first three plus years, I ran 91 Premium. Vehicle ran fine.
The past two plus years, I've been running 85 (high altitude equivalent to 87) and guess what...
Vehicle is running the same!
Still has excellent power, starts quickly and easily even in cold weather, accelerates smoothly, has no detonation, mileage per gallon is the same, idles well and operates as it should.
Sure, the vehicle 'might' like the 91 better.
I never noticed it though!
:
The past two plus years, I've been running 85 (high altitude equivalent to 87) and guess what...
Vehicle is running the same!
Still has excellent power, starts quickly and easily even in cold weather, accelerates smoothly, has no detonation, mileage per gallon is the same, idles well and operates as it should.
Sure, the vehicle 'might' like the 91 better.
I never noticed it though!
:this is a good read...
Which Gasoline Should You Buy - Gasoline Chemistry
Actually, I remember one of the gas companies (Shell maybe) had advertised that they added 'extra' additives to their premium gas...to make it more appealing...they make more money off higher grades (octane) of gasoline.
Which Gasoline Should You Buy - Gasoline Chemistry
Actually, I remember one of the gas companies (Shell maybe) had advertised that they added 'extra' additives to their premium gas...to make it more appealing...they make more money off higher grades (octane) of gasoline.
And then you stated this...
Schizophrenic???? You keep going back and forth.....So which is it??? You running for office???
crackiswack
New member
You won't ever hear pinging because almost all modern cars pull timing when knocking is detected. This will decrease performance 5-10% which most people won't be able to notice anyways, even on cars that were made to run on premium. On another forum for my old G35, a member dynoed with 87, then added octane booster to bring it up to 93+ and only gained 5hp on a 293hp motor with high compression
arty:
JB.
New member
Don't get me started, but I can see I'm going to have to pay more attention to your posts.
Everyone, myself included, is guilty of basing opinions on personal experience. It is how we work. I mean to say that I try very hard to look at relevant data when I am looking for answer. There is so much out there that can cloud us, that personal experience can be very misleading.
The so called outcome bias is usually huge. Still, I am guilty of using anecdotal evidence from time to time and should be called out on it.
Ever since grad school where I was very heavy on statistical and data research methods, I have a new appreciation for data methods.
Anyway.
The so called outcome bias is usually huge. Still, I am guilty of using anecdotal evidence from time to time and should be called out on it.
Ever since grad school where I was very heavy on statistical and data research methods, I have a new appreciation for data methods.
Anyway.
mean machine
New member
that is right, it is all about personal experience, but I will say that I went to regular gas years ago. What I have noticed is that the engine might run a little rough, so about every month or so, I run a concentrated amount of Sea Foam through the tank.
The roughness clears right up.
My expereince with motorcycles, especailly two strokes, has me convinced when used like this, it helps clean the injectors, carbs, lines et al.
But to use the Sea Foam with a full tank of gas, is just a waste of money. My guess the same is true of all those other additives.
I will say this- and suggest one look at some other threads on the subject- the alcohol in gas as currently used icauses far more problems.
Keep the gas fresh is probably more important than regular vs premim!!! I am considering putting a water seperator on mine, as I did this on our boat (two stroke motor). I am stunned about how much water I am draining from the filter.
Same with my old diesel f-250 that has a seperator. While desiel is different than gas and has always had water issues, pure gas did not.
However not anymore!!! When they started putting all that alcohol in gas, the alcohol will seperate into water or cause water to accumulate from its presence if left setting around.
The roughness clears right up.
My expereince with motorcycles, especailly two strokes, has me convinced when used like this, it helps clean the injectors, carbs, lines et al.
But to use the Sea Foam with a full tank of gas, is just a waste of money. My guess the same is true of all those other additives.
I will say this- and suggest one look at some other threads on the subject- the alcohol in gas as currently used icauses far more problems.
Keep the gas fresh is probably more important than regular vs premim!!! I am considering putting a water seperator on mine, as I did this on our boat (two stroke motor). I am stunned about how much water I am draining from the filter.
Same with my old diesel f-250 that has a seperator. While desiel is different than gas and has always had water issues, pure gas did not.
However not anymore!!! When they started putting all that alcohol in gas, the alcohol will seperate into water or cause water to accumulate from its presence if left setting around.
