Hitch shackle

[Expat]

Well, if you guys care so much about 0.25-1/2" increase in your ground clearance by going with bigger tires, then why are you willing to sacrifice a few precious degree of departure angle with this shackle??

Because departure angle is not so much an issue to me as clearance for the transfer case, gas tank, diff....

That being said now I think you are being a bit asinine. While we will work towards getting every quarter inch we can, that all contributes to an overall clearance issue. Naturally you have trade-off everytime you make a modification. Lance will admit to losing some power by putting on larger tires but it is a trade off. I am considering a body lift but I worry about the trade off with safety. I put sliders on my truck but they hang lower than the rocker panels. I effectively lose an inch of clearance but it does another purpose.

I leave my hitch reciever and shackle on all the time. It's convenient when I need to tow (no fumbling for it in the tool box) and adds some minor protection from idiots who need to practice driving.

 

[Expat]

Thai,

One thing you should consider (and you may already know this) is that the hitch shackle mount (i.e. part that fits into the receiver) is a solid piece of steel (or some other metal) with a hole drilled through it for the pin to fit through.

I have a Warn hitch shackle, and I had to drill the hole edge out slightly in order for my hitch pin to fit through because it wouldn't fit through a slightly "out-of-round" hole on one end.

Because it is a solid piece of metal with a hole barely large enough to fit the pin through, I believe it would distribute the load evenly over the entire shackle mount piece. In fact, I am not sure that there is enough room in there to really bend the pin much at all because it is completely surrounded by the solid piece.

In your scenario using just the pin, the load is borne by just the two points on the pin that actually contact the edge of the holes on your hitch.

Then again, I am no engineer, and so I could be all wrong.

Exactly. This is what I was alluding to in my "2nd paragraph".

What are you talking about in the 2nd-to-last paragraph?? The tow pin goes thru the hitch...and things attach to it spreads it's weight across the whole hitch. What are you talking about?

Finally I would question some of the logic in the pin strength arguement in the senario of attaching rope to it vs the solid hitch which spreads the load over the entire length of the pin.

 

[Expat]

Remember, these pins hold the heavy trailers (up to 6500 lbs) to your 4runner...so, i doubt that it will break.

And honestly Thai this makes no sense either. You are pulling the weight of a 6500lb trailer but that is not the force bourne by the pin. I have no clue what the force would be (some mathematical equation involving mass, acceleration and distance or maybe F_{friction}=\mu N
I dunno!).

I do not disagree that the pin might be strong enough for recovery, but I just don't think its the best way and I certainly believe the hitch and shackle cannot affect your departure angle significantly.

The hitch is a $30 option that can allow you to be or do recovery, takes hits when offroading, and hits on road too! Pretty darn good $30 if you ask me.

 

[teotwaki]

I actually now have a Warn unit as well as the Ebay one under discussion.

The warn insert is a heavy solid cast unit. The other unit is an interesting formed steel unit that weighs less. Check out this other one on Ebay.

EBay Shackle

 

[mikestang]

Besides Mark, how many people you see off-roading with the above shackle hanging behind the hitch???

It's "jump on Thai" night! A quick look around the web and...

Video

(There's one here, but tough to see)

I always have mine in, you never know when you might need it. It may stick out a bit, but I believe there are other parts under the rear (like the spare tire, and other parts of the tow hitch) that will actually hit the ground before the shackle receiver does since it's up a bit higher. I've scrapped my rear a few times, but don't have any marks on the receiver. I do have scrapes on the hitch receiver itself, however, just behind where the shackle receiver goes in.

 

[Good Times]

Here's a sample pic of the load on the two different concepts:

The top image shows the load being on the center which can cause severe pulling forces applied to the center. A good example would be holding a toothpick and then pull the center and seeing the toothpick snap in half.

The bottom image shows the load being distributed at the ends of the pin. A good example would be holding a toothpick and then pulling the toothpick at the ends.

It is easier to bend an item when it is farther away from the foundation. This means the top image will suffer from potential failure as the load is being applied away from the foundation. Comparing this to the bottom image, the load is applied right next to the foundation so it would be more difficult for the load to damage the pin.

A real world example of this would be attempting to bend a bar by hanging on the middle vs the ends. Naturally the middle will show more flex vs the ends.

Makes sense? If you need a more detailed explanation, I'll look for my vector dynamics book and get you the necessary physics equations for ya.

 

[Expat]

Lance - go to bed for gods sake. Its 2am man! LOL

I was just browsing your early wheeling shots (Moab etc). You've done some great wheeling trips.

 

[Thai]

Good explanations all.

Lance, have you actually seen where a tow pin actually broke in half from recovering a vehicle??? I have not...nor have heard of any. And as Mark pointed out earlier, the tow rope itself absorbs some force from towing. The tow rope also is not just a tiny string...it is wide (takes up most of the hitch box) and therefore does apply force over MOST of the tow pin, not just one point (as your drawing concluded). Again, the tow pin is solid steel. Your drawing is not accurate in these regards.

That being said now I think you are being a bit asinine.

Expat, being asinine or not, i think that not everyone sees a need for this shackle. If you feel that the extra shackle helps, then go for it...please don't get all work up over this discussion! If you have to insult me more or act more juvenile, then take it to PM. You can discuss (or even argue) while still being respectful of other members, Mark. Please see forum rules (http://www.toyota-4runner.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5809).

Look at it this way. If you guys choose to spend $30-50 on the shackle for recovery, then that's all good. For ME, i don't see the benefit of it (i don't like the tradeoffs) since i don't see a problem with my "ghetto way." Both ways will recover a vehicle. That is all that matters, right?

The arguments have been said on each side. Let the other people reading this thread decide if they want to spend money on the shackle.:cheers:

 

[Thai]

44...i do think that you should get the WARN shackle instead of the one on ebay...WARN looks more solid.

 

[teotwaki]

Here's a sample pic of the load on the two different concepts:

The top image shows the load being on the center which can cause severe pulling forces applied to the center. A good example would be holding a toothpick and then pull the center and seeing the toothpick snap in half.

The bottom image shows the load being distributed at the ends of the pin. A good example would be holding a toothpick and then pulling the toothpick at the ends.

It is easier to bend an item when it is farther away from the foundation. This means the top image will suffer from potential failure as the load is being applied away from the foundation. Comparing this to the bottom image, the load is applied right next to the foundation so it would be more difficult for the load to damage the pin.

A real world example of this would be attempting to bend a bar by hanging on the middle vs the ends. Naturally the middle will show more flex vs the ends.

Makes sense? If you need a more detailed explanation, I'll look for my vector dynamics book and get you the necessary physics equations for ya.

Wow! Great thread to wake up to..... :biggrin2:


I agree with Lance that a strap in the center of a hitch pin will lead to bending of the pin and possible failure. I know I have a link to this somewhere....

What happens is that at the least the pin gets bent in the middle and cannot be removed. The case that I read somewhere involved multiple yanks on the tow strap rather than one smooth continuous pull. The hitch pin fractured in the middle and failed.

 

[Thai]

What happens is that at the least the pin gets bent in the middle and cannot be removed. The case that I read somewhere involved multiple yanks on the tow strap rather than one smooth continuous pull. The hitch pin fractured in the middle and failed.

Hmm...i may have to stand corrected....:

Damn you Teotwaki!!

 

[teotwaki]

Hmm...i may have to stand corrected....:

Damn you Teotwaki!!

I think that it gets down to material strengths and the towing or tugging forces involved. When you start Googling the topic there are some heavy discussions about the mechanics and materials involved. The most conservative approach is to attach directly to the frame of the vehicle and protect the strap from chafing and cuts.

One scary write up involved a clevis pin failure and the clevis rocketing through the air to kill someone.

Clevis pin failure

 

[Thai]

I wonder about the strength of the pin on the shackle itself....

In the story above...i think that the farmer expected too much out of his D-ring and tow pin. The tractor or chopper is way too heavy for the D-ring (or clevis). Therefore, i am not sure if this really applies to this discussion. Everything is breakable to the extreme. I am not sure if the shackle would have save the farmer's life either.

 

[Expat]

Honestly Thai

You came to this conversation stating...

"I know that these things look cool

It is not good for off-roading because it decreases your departure angle (just one more thing to drag).

You should just use your hitch to attach the tow rope to.

Lastly, some idiot can come by and steal your D-ring (metal loop) and you would then have wasted $25."

Well......

It may or may not look cool - never really thought about it.

This device is widely used for offroading.

It does not decrease your departure angle. I think it was mentioned before that the spare tire and tow hitch will hit first. Likewise, if anything this device works well as a slider.

Every instruction I've seen and people I have observed in recovery situations, never use the rope on the pin method.

You countered this information with irrelevant and poorly thought out comments about "our" efforts to gain a 1/4" (I note you did not respond to my explanation about that in relation to sliders!)
and a lack of understanding about forces applied to a pin in two different methods 1. Rope direct to the pin 2. Spreading the same force over the whole pin with the use of the device in question.

I think you were grabbing at straws in the hope of validating your original comments.

There is so much misinformation presented on this forum and I try to spend time when I believe I know what I am talking about, trying to correct that misinformation. I do this mostly thru my own experiences. T4R is full of misinformation especially related to technical issues. I think you are extremely lucky that you have some people on here (eg Lance) who can answer questions accurately, without agenda, who try to help where possible, and use real world experience to help people be safe, have fun, and work on and use their trucks in responsible and economic ways. (yes I believe I was one of those people who tried to offer help that factual and experienced based)

If you think I was being juvenile, then so be it. Your comment about departure angle was foolish (asinine) and I called you on it. If you want to take that personally, then feel free to do so.

The fact of the matter is you were wrong, you felt you had to defend your position, and you started to make comments that showed a lack of understanding and acceptance of other people's imput.

I don't mean to have a pissing match with you over this, but you are misdirected in this one issue.

However, it's your site. I respect what you guys have done by offering it to the world wide community. It's a forum that is highly focussed on the average joe/jill who doesn't offroad and takes pride having a pavement princesses - which is absolutely fine.

My focus is somewhere else, so I am out of here.

 

[Thai]

However, it's your site. I respect what you guys have done by offering it to the world wide community. It's a forum that is highly focussed on the average joe/jill who doesn't offroad and takes pride having a pavement princesses - which is absolutely fine.

My focus is somewhere else, so I am out of here.

First of all, if you read this thread, then you will see that i did say that "i may stand corrected" on the matter. Are you blind? It's at the top of THIS PAGE. I will admit when i am wrong.

But, oh my goodness, the rest of your post...holy shit!

Come on...did Bulldog or FirstToyz put you up to this??

Expat, i never had a problem with you before now. So, you decided to come into this forum and all of sudden announce that this forum is filled with MISINFORMATION and "pavement princesses"?! Where the hell did that come from??!! Now, THAT is an asinine comment.

It's rather interesting...you guys (from the other Toyota forum) come in here and bitch and bitch about this forum and the members...YET, you still come by to visit over and over again. WTF?! Is Toyota120 forum dead as a ghost town that you have to come here and bitch???!! WTF? No need for a forum war.

I don't like people who don't do what they say...since you insult this forum and it's members and offer to leave this forum, i will make sure that you get your wish right away.

If anyone else has a problem with this "misinformed" forum, then please PM me and i will gladly point you to another 4runner forum.

End of discussion on this topic. All the relevant arguments have been presented.