Hole in frame - how bad is it?

[02SE]

Back in my consumer car repair days, and living where they have a love affair with spraying and dumping as much salt as is humanly possible on the roads all winter long. I've seen every make and model rust out in a much shorter time than 12 years.

It's all about not taking enough time to keep the salt washed off. Most people don't, and a rusted vehicle is just the cost of living where we do.

It's well past any corrosion warranty, so I doubt Toyota will do anything. But good luck.

 

[westwind77]

Back in my consumer car repair days, and living where they have a love affair with spraying and dumping as much salt as is humanly possible on the roads all winter long. I've seen every make and model rust out in a much shorter time than 12 years.

It's all about not taking enough time to keep the salt washed off. Most people don't, and a rusted vehicle is just the cost of living where we do.

It's well past any corrosion warranty, so I doubt Toyota will do anything. But good luck.

I do rinse mine well after snow/salt events, always have. I wash the vehicle frequently, wax it twice a year, condition the seats, etc. I could see if the vehicle was neglected but that is not the case.

I have a friend with a Tahoe the same vintage as mine, more milage and spends a lot of weekends in ski country and rarely, if ever, rinses under his Tahoe. I got under his the other day and it looks in great shape.

I was looking at a potential '23 4Runner as I kept waiting for the refresh but if Toyota will not take any ownership of this issue this will be my last. It's very sad because the only issue I ever had was a mirror switch go bad that was replaced under warranty. To me that is impressive, but I would rather have random small parts in a vehicle fail more often than the frame prematurely rust out.

Might be time for a Cherokee L.

 

[Syr4RinNC]

Im surprised. We also get a ton of salt between Nov and April and my 08 isnt that bad. WIth the 4th gens- the earlier ones 03-05 were more of an issue than later ones. So my 03 rusted through after about 14-15 years, but my 08 still looks pretty good for now (other than the rear frame up under the bumper where a lot accumulates)

Yea something funky must have happened with that spot. got a chunk of salt inside it or the finishing process during production missed a spot for some reason

If the rest of the vehicle is in decent shape, and nothing available is on the market, you may want to fix it and suck up the cost.

 

[02SE]

I do rinse mine well after snow/salt events, always have. I wash the vehicle frequently, wax it twice a year, condition the seats, etc. I could see if the vehicle was neglected but that is not the case.

I have a friend with a Tahoe the same vintage as mine, more milage and spends a lot of weekends in ski country and rarely, if ever, rinses under his Tahoe. I got under his the other day and it looks in great shape.

I was looking at a potential '23 4Runner as I kept waiting for the refresh but if Toyota will not take any ownership of this issue this will be my last. It's very sad because the only issue I ever had was a mirror switch go bad that was replaced under warranty. To me that is impressive, but I would rather have random small parts in a vehicle fail more often than the frame prematurely rust out.

Might be time for a Cherokee L.

Obviously whatever you were doing, wasn't sufficient.

Here's the '97 I bought new, and drove on salt encrusted roads every winter, and the Bonneville Salt Flats every summer. 22+ years old in this pic, the day I sold it. No rust, because I washed the undercarriage off whenever necessary.

A neighbor who bought a Mercury Mountaineer (Ford Explorer) about the same time that I bought the '97, had a rusted out hulk in 10 years, due to not washing the salt off frequently enough.

 

[NYRunner]

I lived 100 yards from the ocean for 8 years and drive salted roads all winter every year since 2010 and mine looks way better. Didn’t Toyota replace frames even on 10+ year old Tacoma’s? If mine had one spot that bad on the first new model year or one of the first 1000 off the line I’d be all over Toyota corporate, not just my dealer, pushing for a replacement or some sort of “consideration”. That’s a legal term, and because of their history with rusted out frames they may be willing to move mountains to make you “whole” whether with a new frame, repairing the frame or even offering you one heckuva deal to trade it on a new one… as opposed to risking the cost (both financial and the publicity) of another potential class action etc

 

[Syr4RinNC]

I lived 100 yards from the ocean for 8 years and drive salted roads all winter every year since 2010 and mine looks way better. Didn’t Toyota replace frames even on 10+ year old Tacoma’s? If mine had one spot that bad on the first new model year or one of the first 1000 off the line I’d be all over Toyota corporate, not just my dealer, pushing for a replacement or some sort of “consideration”. That’s a legal term, and because of their history with rusted out frames they may be willing to move mountains to make you “whole” whether with a new frame, repairing the frame or even offering you one heckuva deal to trade it on a new one… as opposed to risking the cost (both financial and the publicity) of another potential class action etc

While i appreciate toyotas reliability as much as the next person, youre not going to get very far with the dealership and corporate. Especially 10 -11 years out. Its impossible to a manufacture issue at this point and again and trying anything legal will take years and years with a david vs goliath chance

 

[schwein]

Our 03 was my wifes vehicle for like 7 years, and other than a little washing here and there it was effectively neglected. back in 2019 when we sold it the body was literally in perfect shape, so was the interior but the back of the frame (near where your issues are) were a mess, holes similar to yours. There is a class action law suit but only includes 05-09 vehicles if i remember correctly.

This being said, we sold ours to someone who was going to fix it but before doing so I found a shop over in Everett (T&T automotive) that was going to weld on some brackets (i would supply on the internet) they said it would likely be around a grand for them to sand it down, weld on the brackets and then paint it.

our 2014 was showing signs of surface rust when we discovered the 03's issues and i immediately coated the entire underside with rust neutralizer and then coated it with fluid film, so far so good but these frames LOVE getting eaten up... its pretty incredible.

 

[02SE]

I lived 100 yards from the ocean for 8 years and drive salted roads all winter every year since 2010 and mine looks way better. Didn’t Toyota replace frames even on 10+ year old Tacoma’s? If mine had one spot that bad on the first new model year or one of the first 1000 off the line I’d be all over Toyota corporate, not just my dealer, pushing for a replacement or some sort of “consideration”. That’s a legal term, and because of their history with rusted out frames they may be willing to move mountains to make you “whole” whether with a new frame, repairing the frame or even offering you one heckuva deal to trade it on a new one… as opposed to risking the cost (both financial and the publicity) of another potential class action etc

Yes, frames made improperly by Dana Corp. Tacoma, Tundra, and Sequoia were the effected models, as they were made in America, and received those improperly made frames. Toyota won a 25 million dollar lawsuit against Dana Corp, and replaced a lot of defective frames, or bought back vehicles.

The 4Runner has always been made in Japan, and as a result, they didn't get those improperly made by Dana Corp frames.

But as I've mentioned, any make or model can and will rust/corrode eventually in a highly corrosive environment, if sufficiently neglected. Either intentionally or unintentionally.

 

[westwind77]

The 4Runner has always been made in Japan, and as a result, they didn't get those improperly made by Dana Corp frames.

But as I've mentioned, any make or model can and will rust/corrode eventually in a highly corrosive environment, if sufficiently neglected. Either intentionally or unintentionally.

The 4th Gen's have issues with this though and they are Japan built as well, enough so for their class action suit. The ones built in Japan might be a little better but are still horrible based on what I see. I have company trucks that are mid 2000's and neglected with NO issue with the frame.

Mine was not neglected as I have said. Washed frequently to the point where I have a quick disconnect hose set up outside my house to be able to rinse the entire 4R (top and bottom) after snow or salt events. It allows me to clip the hose on, rinse as needed, unclip and toss in the garage so it will not freeze and be useless.

Does the frame get rinsed daily, no, but enough where this should not be an issue after 10 years.

I took it to the shop this morning and they are going to repair it towards the end of the month. Sadly they also found more holes further towards the back as well.

Whatever vehicle I get next will be coated yearly underneath as you can't trust the build quality of anything it seems these days.

 

[02SE]

The 4th Gen's have issues with this though and they are Japan built as well, enough so for their class action suit. The ones built in Japan might be a little better but are still horrible based on what I see. I have company trucks that are mid 2000's and neglected with NO issue with the frame.

Mine was not neglected as I have said. Washed frequently to the point where I have a quick disconnect hose set up outside my house to be able to rinse the entire 4R (top and bottom) after snow or salt events. It allows me to clip the hose on, rinse as needed, unclip and toss in the garage so it will not freeze and be useless.

Does the frame get rinsed daily, no, but enough where this should not be an issue after 10 years.

I took it to the shop this morning and they are going to repair it towards the end of the month. Sadly they also found more holes further towards the back as well.

Whatever vehicle I get next will be coated yearly underneath as you can't trust the build quality of anything it seems these days.

There's a class action suit because ONE guy in S. Carolina neglected his 4Runner, or didn't do his due diligence in inspecting it before buying it used, and now is looking for someone to blame, other than himself...

The 4Runner has never been more susceptible to rust than any other make or model of vehicle. Since they tend to be reliable mechanically, there's lots of older 4Runners out there. If they've been operated in a highly corrosive environment, and the owners efforts to keep rust at bay, (if they make an effort) haven't been verified as effective, then one day they might get a nasty surprise.

What I saw as a former Toyota master tech, was lots of neglect from owners. They'd buy a Toyota based on the reliability reputation, and then fail to adequately maintain their vehicle. Including adequately cleaning them in a highly corrosive environment.

Coating a vehicle yearly sounds like a good plan for anyone that assumes they are doing all they can for rust prevention, without verifying that their efforts are effective.

 

[rageandlove]

No rust, because I washed the undercarriage off whenever necessary.

What do you do to wash off the undercarriage?

 

[westwind77]

The 4Runner has never been more susceptible to rust than any other make or model of vehicle.

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with that statement. My prior Durango ('99) frame was in almost new condition when I sold it after the exact same frame maintenance techniquie used on my 4R. My friends Tahoe is 11 years old now and it spends half its life in the salty ski country and rarely, if ever, does he wash the exterior let alone the underside and it is in very decent shape compared to mine. My company Ford trucks are all 15+ years old and are in great shape as well and these trucks never get rinsed off expect for by the rain on the road!

It seems like these 4R frames are 'high maintenance'. They can be prevented from rusting out, you just have to do a LOT more than you would to any other SUV on the market to fend off the rust.

It sounds like these frames need to be coated annually at a minimum for them to have longevity vs other frames. I just wish I knew how much extra attention these 4R's needed underneath years ago vs others. Oh well, live and learn as they say.

 

[02SE]

What do you do to wash off the undercarriage?

Just a garden hose and nozzle. Of course that's a pain in below freezing temperatures.

But the alternative from my past in consumer auto repair, is rust if neglected. That goes for every brand which I saw rotted out examples of regularly. I still have friends in the consumer car repair business, and they all say that all vehicle makes still rot out if neglected.

 

[02SE]

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with that statement. My prior Durango ('99) frame was in almost new condition when I sold it after the exact same frame maintenance techniquie used on my 4R. My friends Tahoe is 11 years old now and it spends half its life in the salty ski country and rarely, if ever, does he wash the exterior let alone the underside and it is in very decent shape compared to mine. My company Ford trucks are all 15+ years old and are in great shape as well and these trucks never get rinsed off expect for by the rain on the road!

It seems like these 4R frames are 'high maintenance'. They can be prevented from rusting out, you just have to do a LOT more than you would to any other SUV on the market to fend off the rust.

It sounds like these frames need to be coated annually at a minimum for them to have longevity vs other frames. I just wish I knew how much extra attention these 4R's needed underneath years ago vs others. Oh well, live and learn as they say.

Using a garden hose with a nozzle to wash the salt off when the frame became white with caked-on salt isn't high maintenance. It's just common sense. It's also mentioned in every owners manual I've ever had, that it's important to wash off salt when the vehicle is operated in a highly corrosive environment.

I guarantee those holes in your frame didn't appear overnight. That's been rotting due to neglect for a long time. My advice is spend more time cleaning off the salt in the future, on whatever vehicle you have.

 

[John in NC]

I'd take it in and talk to your local Toyota service manager, and ask for an evalutaion, and I'd also try to go up the chain with Toyota corporate, that is nuts!
Toyota should be able to figure this frame thing out, factory dip, then coat the frames!

PS my Bro-in-Laws old Tacoma failed inspection due to frame rust and he got a check from Toyota and bought a newer nicer Tacoma. You may fail your next inspection so I'd get politely aggressive and persistent right now regarding this frame. Unacceptable and scary.

 

[westwind77]

Using a garden hose with a nozzle to wash the salt off when the frame became white with caked-on salt isn't high maintenance. It's just common sense. It's also mentioned in every owners manual I've ever had, that it's important to wash off salt when the vehicle is operated in a highly corrosive environment.

I guarantee those holes in your frame didn't appear overnight. That's been rotting due to neglect for a long time. My advice is spend more time cleaning off the salt in the future, on whatever vehicle you have.

As stated many times before, I wash/rinse it, per common sense, with any/all salt events and normal spring/summer/fall vehicle washings.

You are right, they did not appear overnight, corrosion takes time, but from what I can see this all happened from the INSIDE, not the outside. I deal with the marine industry and I junk more trailers than you count per year due to the frame rusting out, so I know how this all works.

Most frames rust out inside first as there is no easy way to remove the salt deposit inside vs a quick wash or even rain water on the outside. I have seen many frames look good from the outside, still clean galvanized coated, but when you tap with a hammer it goes right through like paper.

From what I saw on my frame I believe it was very similar as the outside in a couple sections.

Again, you seem to ignore my points about many other vehicles that I deal with daily that receive much less 'attention' are are still in great shape. There is a big elephant in the room and you are dodging it left and right.

This 4Runner, by far, has the worse frame anti corrosion ability of any vehicle I have seen.

Yes, any/all frames will rust out eventually if not taken care of, that is basic science. However, when you can compare a number of different frames all driven in the same environment, most older and receiving less washing, all all looking much better with no damage proves - without question - that the 4Runner frame is sub-par compared to other frames and requires significant attention vs the others to prevent this from happening.

 

[02SE]

As stated many times before, I wash/rinse it, per common sense, with any/all salt events and normal spring/summer/fall vehicle washings.

You are right, they did not appear overnight, corrosion takes time, but from what I can see this all happened from the INSIDE, not the outside. I deal with the marine industry and I junk more trailers than you count per year due to the frame rusting out, so I know how this all works.

Most frames rust out inside first as there is no easy way to remove the salt deposit inside vs a quick wash or even rain water on the outside. I have seen many frames look good from the outside, still clean galvanized coated, but when you tap with a hammer it goes right through like paper.

From what I saw on my frame I believe it was very similar as the outside in a couple sections.

Again, you seem to ignore my points about many other vehicles that I deal with daily that receive much less 'attention' are are still in great shape. There is a big elephant in the room and you are dodging it left and right.

This 4Runner, by far, has the worse frame anti corrosion ability of any vehicle I have seen.

Yes, any/all frames will rust out eventually if not taken care of, that is basic science. However, when you can compare a number of different frames all driven in the same environment, most older and receiving less washing, all all looking much better with no damage proves - without question - that the 4Runner frame is sub-par compared to other frames and requires significant attention vs the others to prevent this from happening.

I'm not dodging anything. I just think you're in denial. Like the guy whose lack of personal responsibility resulted in his filing a class-action lawsuit with some ambulance-chasing law firm over his rotted (through HIS own inaction) 4th gen.

You made assumptions about the condition of your 4Runner, because you washed the body and cleaned the interior. And will not accept that your own inaction played the major factor in the condition of your 4Runner.

I think it's clear you'd be happier in a Durango or Tahoe. Just an FYI, I've seen several rotted out examples of both. Not to mention their more prevalent mechanical issues.

At any rate, this is a waste of time to keep going around and around.

Good luck with the next vehicle.