Hope for the best prepare for the worst.How are you prepping for the covid-19 virus.

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mscot said:
Dude, you're relatively new here. Have you actually made any posts that contribute to the forum or do you just spew your get off my lawn rightwing bullshit everywhere?

Your "look at me, I test drove a 4runner everyone else here has had for up to a decade" post doesn't count.
Click to expand...

You can’t get too worked up about the complainers. They’re smart, they know what’s right and wrong. They just hate what’s happening and how we’re powerless to change it, we just gotta go along with the program and ride it out. They’re just lashing out and having a little fun provoking “the Man”.
 
ElectroBoy said:
You can’t get too worked up about the complainers. They’re smart, they know what’s right and wrong. They just hate what’s happening and how we’re powerless to change it, we just gotta go along with the program and ride it out. They’re just lashing out and having a little fun provoking “the Man”.
Click to expand...

Nah. Some of them have the "all liberals must die" attitude. I've scanned his posts. Calling authorities Gestapo, calling liberals Communists... or fascists (with a clear lack of understanding of what a fascist is). He just wants to spit vile and hatred.
 
mscot said:
Dude, you're relatively new here. Have you actually made any posts that contribute to the forum or do you just spew your get off my lawn rightwing bullshit everywhere?

Your "look at me, I test drove a 4runner everyone else here has had for up to a decade" post doesn't count.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry if I have not met your standards. (sarcasm)
 
mscot said:
Nah. Some of them have the "all liberals must die" attitude. I've scanned his posts. Calling authorities Gestapo, calling liberals Communists... or fascists (with a clear lack of understanding of what a fascist is). He just wants to spit vile and hatred.
Click to expand...



Perhaps reading the link I provided would help with your understanding of what Liberal Fascism is and how it is negatively effecting our country at this moment.

I've never used the word "die" nor would I ever here.
 
Goldberg is a an advocate for libertarianism at the federal level no matter how oft he derides libertarians. Please, remind me of the examples of successful libertarian societies?

It's ok. I too once advocated for (and voted) libertarian. Then I grew up.

Further Goldberg believes that medicare and social security are fascist. Are you willing to forsake yours?

How about child labor laws? How do you feel about them?

His "all beneficial government services is a form of fascism" take is absurd. Go buy yourself a private island and piss the F off if you see no need for basic foundations of a society.

I did dl the book though. So I guess you've contributed something other than notes on what you have most recently ate to the forum. Way to go.
 
Last edited:
mscot said:
Goldberg is a an advocate for libertarianism at the federal level no matter how oft he derides libertarians. Please, remind me of the examples of successful libertarian societies?

It's ok. I too once advocated for (and voted) libertarian. Then I grew up.

Further Goldberg believes that medicare and social security are fascist. Are you willing to forsake yours?

How about child labor laws? How do you feel about them?

His "all beneficial government services is a form of fascism" take is absurd. Go buy yourself a private island and piss the F off if you see no need for basic foundations of a society.

I did dl the book though. So I guess you've contributed something other than notes on what you have most recently ate to the forum. Way to go.
Click to expand...



Please spare us your character assignation attempt on Jonah Goldberg.
 
I'm not arguing for or against Liberalism or Libertarianism, but America was founded on Liberalism and Libertarianism.

From the Encyclopedia Britanica Libertarianism - Historical origins | Britannica

Code: 
[I]
 The American Revolution (1775–83) was a watershed for liberalism.
 In the Declaration of Independence (1776), Jefferson enunciated many liberal 
 and libertarian ideas, including the belief in “unalienable Rights” to “Life,
 Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness” and the belief in the “right” and “duty”
 of citizens to “throw off such Government” that violates these rights. Indeed,
 during and after the American Revolution, according to the American historian
 Bernard Bailyn, “the major themes of eighteenth-century libertarianism were
 brought to realization” in written constitutions, bills of rights, and limits on
 executive and legislative powers, especially the power to wage war. Such
 values have remained at the core of American political thought ever since.

 During the 19th century, governments based on traditional liberal principles
 emerged in England and the United States and to a smaller extent in
 continental Europe. The rise of liberalism resulted in rapid technological
 development and a general increase in living standards, though large
 segments of the population remained in poverty, especially in the slums of
 industrial cities.
[/I]

That's a selective quote about history, Libralism and Libertarianism have gone through changes in that modern liberals advocate for government regulation in many areas and heavier taxation of the rich.

Here's a way we do that taxation thing in America

Code: 
How our Tax system works

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all
ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes,
it would go something like this:


The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59

So, that's what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the bar
every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until
one day, the owner threw them a curve. He said, "Since you are all such
good customers, I'm going to reduce the cost of your
daily beer by $20. Drinks for the ten now cost just $80."

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes,
so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for
free. But what about the other six men -- the paying customers?

How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would
get his "fair share"? They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33.
But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth
man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his
beer. So the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce

each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded
to work out the amounts each should pay!

And so:

The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four
continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the
men began to compare their savings.

"I only got a dollar out of the $20," declared the sixth man. He
pointed to the tenth man, "but he got $10!"

"Yeah, that's right,' exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a dollar,
too. It's unfair that he got ten times more than I!"

"That's true!!"shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get $10
back when I got only $2 ? The wealthy get all the breaks!"

"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get
anything at all. The system exploits the poor!"

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the
nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came
time to pay the bill, they discovered something important They
didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is
how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes
get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much,
attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up
any more. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the
atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D.
Professor of Economics, University of Georgia

For those who understand, no explanation is needed.
For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible
 
xyzzy said:
I'm not arguing for or against Liberalism or Libertarianism, but America was founded on Liberalism and Libertarianism.

From the Encyclopedia Britanica Libertarianism - Historical origins | Britannica

Code: 
[I]
 The American Revolution (1775–83) was a watershed for liberalism.
 In the Declaration of Independence (1776), Jefferson enunciated many liberal 
 and libertarian ideas, including the belief in “unalienable Rights” to “Life,
 Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness” and the belief in the “right” and “duty”
 of citizens to “throw off such Government” that violates these rights. Indeed,
 during and after the American Revolution, according to the American historian
 Bernard Bailyn, “the major themes of eighteenth-century libertarianism were
 brought to realization” in written constitutions, bills of rights, and limits on
 executive and legislative powers, especially the power to wage war. Such
 values have remained at the core of American political thought ever since.

 During the 19th century, governments based on traditional liberal principles
 emerged in England and the United States and to a smaller extent in
 continental Europe. The rise of liberalism resulted in rapid technological
 development and a general increase in living standards, though large
 segments of the population remained in poverty, especially in the slums of
 industrial cities.
[/I]

That's a selective quote about history, Libralism and Libertarianism have gone through changes in that modern liberals advocate for government regulation in many areas and heavier taxation of the rich.

Here's a way we do that taxation thing in America

Code: 
How our Tax system works

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all
ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes,
it would go something like this:


The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59

So, that's what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the bar
every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until
one day, the owner threw them a curve. He said, "Since you are all such
good customers, I'm going to reduce the cost of your
daily beer by $20. Drinks for the ten now cost just $80."

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes,
so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for
free. But what about the other six men -- the paying customers?

How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would
get his "fair share"? They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33.
But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth
man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his
beer. So the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce

each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded
to work out the amounts each should pay!

And so:

The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four
continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the
men began to compare their savings.

"I only got a dollar out of the $20," declared the sixth man. He
pointed to the tenth man, "but he got $10!"

"Yeah, that's right,' exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a dollar,
too. It's unfair that he got ten times more than I!"

"That's true!!"shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get $10
back when I got only $2 ? The wealthy get all the breaks!"

"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get
anything at all. The system exploits the poor!"

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the
nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came
time to pay the bill, they discovered something important They
didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is
how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes
get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much,
attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up
any more. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the
atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D.
Professor of Economics, University of Georgia

For those who understand, no explanation is needed.
For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible
Click to expand...

Thanks for this. It was a good read.
 
xyzzy said:
I'm not arguing for or against Liberalism or Libertarianism.

Here's a way we do that taxation thing in America

Code: 
How our Tax system works

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all
ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes,
it would go something like this:


David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D.
Professor of Economics, University of Georgia

For those who understand, no explanation is needed.
For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible
Click to expand...

Please do not post false information.
Among others, the analogy you posted was quoted by press secretary Huckabee in one of her press briefing for the tax cut proposed by the white house. she also explained that the analogy was floating around on the web.

The original author was falsely thought to be

T Davies
Professor of Accounting & Chair,
Division of Accounting and Business Law
The University of South Dakota
School of Business

Dr. David R. Kamerschen, a professor of economics at the University of Georgia, has also been erroneously attributed as the author of this essay. He posted a denial of authorship on his personal web page:

The above analogy for taxation was also given by Esme Shakeshaft who works for Moore associates a British wealth management firm specializing in saving wealth for the rich.
The Tax System Explained - Using a Beer Analogy — MOORE

The rich do pay more in taxes in wages but percentage wise the middle class folks pay a higher tax.
Warren buffet famously noted that he pays fewer taxes, on a percentage basis, than his secretary and other employees, since a bulk of his wealth is in stock rather than wage income.
 
Too bad there is no basement for all this, but back to the topic. It appears that we must be having some success with the gubermint "mandates". Simply we are not seeing full hospital beds with an over flow, and no one to take care of the sick. Seeing Empty hospital beds is a good thing.
I know it hurts right now. But nothing like other generations have gone through. We will survive this, maybe even be stronger for it. It's not 1918 or 1939, or 1865 if you were Native American.
 
Oldmanb777 said:
Too bad there is no basement for all this, but back to the topic. It appears that we must be having some success with the gubermint "mandates". Simply we are not seeing full hospital beds with an over flow, and no one to take care of the sick. Seeing Empty hospital beds is a good thing.
I know it hurts right now. But nothing like other generations have gone through. We will survive this, maybe even be stronger for it. It's not 1918 or 1939, or 1865 if you were Native American.
Click to expand...

If you check back in a little while there’s sure to be posts complaining about conspiratorial fascist models that predicted 200,000 deaths that didn’t happen.
Go figure.
 
Last edited:
RichinRidgewood said:
Please spare us your character assignation attempt on Jonah Goldberg.
Click to expand...

character "assignation?"

even with the poor spelling, what I posted had nothing to do with his character. I don't know him.
I just think his stance is bullshit meant to feed the simple minded with talking points and rile them up. Good to see it worked on you.
 
xyzzy said:
I'm not arguing for or against Liberalism or Libertarianism, but America was founded on Liberalism and Libertarianism.
Click to expand...

While founded on libertarian ideals, our government/society is is not libertarian and hasn't been anywhere close to it since the days of the Wild West and even then it was only in the frontier. That's b/c libertarianism doesn't work in a society without rampant inequality - which, if you recall, our country was also founded on the ideal of equality (for white males, anyway).
There's also the issue of your freedom ends where mine begins and how that would be enforced in a truly libertarian society.
 
Oldmanb777 said:
Too bad there is no basement for all this, but back to the topic. It appears that we must be having some success with the gubermint "mandates". Simply we are not seeing full hospital beds with an over flow, and no one to take care of the sick. Seeing Empty hospital beds is a good thing.
I know it hurts right now. But nothing like other generations have gone through. We will survive this, maybe even be stronger for it. It's not 1918 or 1939, or 1865 if you were Native American.
Click to expand...

I'm trying to figure out how our economy is going to come back - especially in retail and restaurants. It's a chicken or egg thing - which comes first? Companies will not rehire workers until sales pick up dramatically. People who don't have jobs will not have money to spend... Retailers won't order much new product if nobody is buying, so manufacturers have to wait for orders to pick up before they rehire. Manufacturers won't purchase raw materials until they have orders, so raw material suppliers have to wait for orders to pick up before they rehire. Product isn't moving so trucks/drivers sit idle. Who blinks first and hires some freaking workers so they can buy stuff?
 
we also have to get schools going again so people with children can go back to work.

hoping that reports of remdesivir as a treatment continue to prove true.
 
xyzzy said:
OFCS, Self-confessed liar Sarah [Huckabee] Sanders says: 'I don't like being called a liar'
The point is still made, regardless of whom the original author was
Click to expand...

The point that the users of that analogy make is that rich pay a higher percentage of tax rate which is false. So a madeup false premise and false analogy attributed to economic experts is a lie.
 
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