Horrible snow traction!

[magnumfan]

Re: Re: Auto 4WD

That is incorrect ! The Chevy has the auto 4wd option which I like but its not the same as running the 4R in 4wd mode. The chevy runs in 2wd until slippage occurs and then the front wheels kick in , on the 4R when you put it in 4wd its actually driving all 4 wheels and the power torsion power distributes the amount between front and back but is alway in 4wd. It does not kick in and out like GM auto 4wd.

Hey Falls.

I think this subject is pretty grey, meaning the real answer is, it depends on what is, is (as per Prez Clinton)

On the Chey, yes your right with the Auto 4WD option, it runs in 2WD until slippage occurs, but because the chevy has an open front diff (least mine did) any power that goes to the front, is lost on either wheel that slips (since there was no VSC on the 1999 4x4) so at best, you (or me) had a 3 WD car. If you put in an LSD in the front (only available as after market) you could make the arguement it was a 'real' 4WD.

In my humble opinion the T4R is considerably better because it is so smart, being able to figure out if or not any wheel is slipping, applying ABS to control it under the ATRAC and ensuring power gets there. I love what Toyota has done, mainly because we (T4R 4Gen owners) dont have to go out and upgrade the hell out of our 4X4s to make them truely useable.

Just my opinion

I enjoyed my Chevy, but I beleive my Toyota is a better vehicle

Joe

 

[BlackRunner]

This is where I got stuck initially... I was suprised it couldn't get up that.

 

[swisstype]

that looks like a combo of weight and tires

 

[Kmvreter]

This is where I got stuck initially... I was suprised it couldn't get up that.

I'm surprised too.
4H + center diff locked + giver and she should move even with bald dunflops.

 

[Even Steven]

This is where I got stuck initially... I was suprised it couldn't get up that.

Your 4Runner is stuck in that picture? Seriously?

Unless you were on four patches of complete ice, I can't imagine being stuck on such a small incline with such shallow snow.

 

[Baba Booey]

What the heck is going on here with all of these 4Runners having trouble in the snow? The tires in that picture don't look that bad, and the incline and snow depth look like it should be a walk in the park.

I remember reading a post when I first joined here a few years ago about someone's dad that got stuck in like 3" of snow on level ground with a 4WD 4th Gen, and I just dismissed him in my mind as some sort of idiot.

However, the more I read, the more it sounds like these are reasonable people that are having trouble in snow that shouldn't be. I don't think I would have much trouble driving up that incline with a front-wheel drive car wearing decent all-seasons.

What gives?

 

[Even Steven]

What the heck is going on here with all of these 4Runners having trouble in the snow? The tires in that picture don't look that bad, and the incline and snow depth look like it should be a walk in the park.

I remember reading a post when I first joined here a few years ago about someone's dad that got stuck in like 3" of snow on level ground with a 4WD 4th Gen, and I just dismissed him in my mind as some sort of idiot.

However, the more I read, the more it sounds like these are reasonable people that are having trouble in snow that shouldn't be. I don't think I would have much trouble driving up that incline with a front-wheel drive car wearing decent all-seasons.

What gives?

It's not the vehicle. I think it has more to do with having crappy tires for snow and inexperienced drivers (or possibly a combination of both). My own 4Runner has never been stuck in snow like that, even with the OEM Dunlops. I'll have to find some of my old pics in snow high enough to cover about 3/4 of the tire, and still able to drive right through it.

 

[magnumfan]

Dud-runner

This is where I got stuck initially... I was suprised it couldn't get up that.

Hey Blackrunner, you must have bought one of the dud versions. I will give you $10k for it, cash today. I need some spare parts, like a replacement set of back seats since my dog yakked all over them today and Ive just spent the last 2 hours steaming and wet vaccing them and cloroxing them clean.

Actually if you want, you can have my Limited and I will take your SE as a fair trade, mine just smells a little funky right now!!

yeeech!

Seriously though, it never ceases to amaze me how little it can take to stop a 4x4 and on the reverse how much they can get thru, I think what a lot of people simply fail to recognize, is that if your tires cannot get a grip, your sunk. All the 4X Diff locking technology on the planet wont solve that problem. And to make things worse, one set of tires does not solve all problems. So we have compromise tires, mud snow tires, real snow ice tires, off road tires, road tires etc etc

I have a freind who lives in south shore tahoe, he drives a Mitsubishi GT 3000 with the VR4 twin turbo system, it produces close to 400HP and with the high performance tires on that, you can floor the gas peddal, drop the clutch and it will barely spin any of the tires, I have never seen it not be able to get thru any depth of snow up there, and its a sports car, only inches off the ground. and I know it high centers, Ive been in it when it has, its awsome, but the winter tires he runs are the trick.

joe

 

[BlackRunner]

I would agree that I could definitely benefit from better tires....

I rode in that Tundra the other day and I noticed in 4WD all the axles lock and the tires spin at the same rate regardless of slip.

As impressive as the T4R's system is in the videos of it in dirt hill climbs and mud. Snow is a completely different beast and I almost think that it's a hinderance in snow to have it shifting the grip back and forth and not just digging with all 4 tires at the same rate.

The truth is that I'll probably never have 2 wheels off the ground on a technical hill climb, but I do have to drive in snow all the time, so I'm just trying to decipher the vehicles strengths and weaknesses.

I love the truck and this is the only thing that I've ever even questioned about it's design.

Die-hard T4R owners, flame away...

 

[Even Steven]

I would agree that I could definitely benefit from better tires....

I rode in that Tundra the other day and I noticed in 4WD all the axles lock and the tires spin at the same rate regardless of slip.



I think you are mistaken about this. What year was the Tundra? As far as I know, the Tundra has the 4WDemand system, which is a part time 4wd system. No center locking diff like our 4Runners, but a 2-speed transfer case that will lock the front/rear driveshafts together, just as we can do with our locking center diff. But to say that all four tires spin at the same speed regardless of slip doesn't sound right.



As impressive as the T4R's system is in the videos of it in dirt hill climbs and mud. Snow is a completely different beast and I almost think that it's a hinderance in snow to have it shifting the grip back and forth and not just digging with all 4 tires at the same rate.



Here's a thread for you to read about a Tundra owner getting stuck in 6 inches of snow..... So I guess they have the same complaints that you're making

http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/tundra/120007-tire-traction-4wd-system/


Die-hard T4R owners, flame away...

 

[Zmtking]

That 4runner being stuck seems hard to believe to be sure. But I suppose it could happen. The only thing I can think of is that you spun the wheels around so much that the snow froze in the treads reducing traction like you were on ice.

If I recall correctly from my days learning how to drive in snow way back when rear wheel 2wd was just about all anyone had. It's the snow in the treads that grip the snow you drive on helping to provide traction, or something to that effect. So you want snow in the tread, but spinning the tires will cause it to freeze thus reducing traction.

 

[Baba Booey]

Yeah, the strange odd occurrence does happen. I remember back when I was a teenager, my friend exited from a state highway onto a dirt road/trail that was basically level. However, it had two shallow ruts that were covered with wet leaves, and somehow we got cross-axled in those very shallow ruts and one front and one rear tire in his Chevy Blazer just spun and spun, and we didn't move an inch.

My friend beat the crap out of that rig off-road in much more difficult situations, and he just couldn't believe that we got stuck where we did. I think if he would have had a gun, he would've shot his truck on the spot to put it out of its misery.

Perhaps what happened in this case is one of these types of inexplicable things that hopefully doesn't happen too often. It just seems like it's not an isolated incident here on this forum when it comes to getting stuck in not-to-deep snow.

 

[Baba Booey]

Don't know what happened with the double post....

 

[Falls]

Re: Re: Re: Auto 4WD

Hey Falls.

I think this subject is pretty grey, meaning the real answer is, it depends on what is, is (as per Prez Clinton)

On the Chey, yes your right with the Auto 4WD option, it runs in 2WD until slippage occurs, but because the chevy has an open front diff (least mine did) any power that goes to the front, is lost on either wheel that slips (since there was no VSC on the 1999 4x4) so at best, you (or me) had a 3 WD car. If you put in an LSD in the front (only available as after market) you could make the arguement it was a 'real' 4WD.

In my humble opinion the T4R is considerably better because it is so smart, being able to figure out if or not any wheel is slipping, applying ABS to control it under the ATRAC and ensuring power gets there. I love what Toyota has done, mainly because we (T4R 4Gen owners) dont have to go out and upgrade the hell out of our 4X4s to make them truely useable.

Just my opinion

I enjoyed my Chevy, but I beleive my Toyota is a better vehicle

Joe

That is correct , kinda what I wanted to say but didn't come out right about the Chevy , I came off a 04 Z71 Tahoe 4x4.

Agree about the Atrac , really gets the power where it needs to be.

 

[Falls]

This is where I got stuck initially... I was suprised it couldn't get up that.

If you were stuck in that with your 4R , and reading your friends Tundra story , there is something wrong with these pictures that are painted here.

20's on a Tunda sure dont help matters either with those tires , but 6" of snow c'mon. And all 4 wheels spinning on the Tundra at the same time , I need to learn more about the Tundra drive system. I did not know they had Atrac or L/S in front and rear.


If you have a 4x4 ( Tundra truck ) and say your on total glare ice ( all 4 wheels). You lock it into 4wd , all 4 wheels will spin. The truck is sensing all 4 wheels are getting the same traction as the would on the road .If one front wheel was on asphalt and the other 3 on ice the out come will still be the same and the truck would not move unless it had a front locker , limited slip , or Atrac. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Strange the both of you are posting the same problem. Hope you get it resolved. Snow always can be a different animal , different types ect.

 

[magnumfan]

All tires aint equal, especially in snow

So I dont know if its just me, maybe I am missing something here.

There seams to be post after post of people complaining about the lack of traction in their various vehicles in snow and ice.

I might be wrong, but I beleive the Gen4 T4R, SR5, SE and Limited all share the same mechanical and electronic 4X4 equipment, so that leaves the only other variables as the snow itself (and as Falls pointed out there is different kinds of snow) and the tires.

I used to have Bridgestone H/Ts on my Ltd as supplied by Toyota, and they sucked in snow and mud, but were pretty darn good elsewhere and excellent on the road. Now I have Bridgestone Revo's in 265/65/18s and I think they are fantastic in snow, mud, dirt, rock and not bad on the asphalt

My suggestion to everyone who is experiencing snow traction issues, is find a buddy, who you trust who has good traction in snow and do what they are doing, there is a bunch of excellent combo off road, snow, mud, dirt and asphalt tires out there and clearly there are a lot that are not good in most situations.

Tires are a compromise thing. One size does not fix all situations.

Thats why so many of the guys on this forum who live in the snow each year have two sets of rims and tires. I live just below the snow line, so currently I only have 1 set of compromise tires. Thats a Brigestone Revo and I recommend it.

The only other thing I can think of is if your an aggressive driver, you have to take it easier in snow and ice. thats just common sense, easy does it, or you will slip and slide all over the place.

unless you want to hotdog a bit and spin them up.

just my 0.2 cents

joe

 

[panamapat]

Anyone think their 4runner sucks in the snow?

07 4Runner with Dunlop AT20's was unbelievably horrible in the snow my first time out. Clearly the tires were the problem as it slide during turn-in and braking.

Since tires were new, I tried siping them and it improved dramatically, but I can't wait to get rid of these and try another tire.

 

[magnumfan]

Re: Re: Horrible snow traction!

07 4Runner with Dunlop AT20's was unbelievably horrible in the snow my first time out. Clearly the tires were the problem as it slide during turn-in and braking.

Since tires were new, I tried siping them and it improved dramatically, but I can't wait to get rid of these and try another tire.

Dude, where did you find snow in April? Australia, New Zealand, Argentina, Antarctica?

 

[leftyguns21]

hmm...I had a 3rd gen before this w. a good set of tires (the brand slips my mind) and I had her in 3+ feet of snow and never had an issue. I drove 80 miles in a blizzard and I was passing everyone and watching them spin out...now I have a 4th gen w/ the stock tires. so now should I be worried? I thought it was just because the 4wd was so great, I mean im not totally stoopid I realize the tires have some play on it, but I figured as long as I have a decent tread on them I should be good right? I haven