How has the dealership tried to screw you?

[mmeuli]

I took my 2016 Limited 4WD into Fred Anderson Toyota in Charleston, SC with a small oil leak. They then 'discovered' that my rear main and timing cover were leaking, and also 'noticed' one of my front struts had some caked-on dirt, prompting them to say I need new struts and that Toyota ONLY recommends changing all 4.

See attached estimate. I laughed in their faces and left. I decided to start the repairs myself and replaced the rear main seal, which was a giant PITA. Figured I'd test it out and guess what? Oil still leaking.

It got to the point that I was leaking a quart a day. I'm not a mechanic and have no idea how to generally diagnose an oil leak, but I thought it was very unlikely that I'm losing a quart of oil a day via the timing cover.

So, I cleaned off the engine completely with dawn and put UV dye in the oil, and fired it up the next morning. Oil was essentially pouring out of the oil pressure assembly switch.

I bout the OEM part for $30 and a $10 tube of Permatex high temp thread sealant and replaced the existing switch around 5 PM. Let it sit overnight (says 24 hrs to fully cure, but given the weather in Charleston, I was pretty sure it was able to cure faster). Cranked it up in the morning: ZERO OIL LEAKING. ZERO.

I was confused when I pulled the RMS because it didn't really look like anything leaked from it. The original RMS was intact and zero oil was behind the plate it goes into. That's why I questioned the timing cover.

I was able to fix, for $40, what the dealership wanted over $5,000 to 'fix.' and it wouldn't have even fixed it!!!! I've had issues with Fred Anderson coming up with bogus repairs in the past, so I don't usually take them with a grain of salt--but $100 repair BS'ed into $5,000?

So what is the worst thing a dealership has tried to do to you that was total BS?

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[BlackWorksInc]

Would have liked to see pictures of the rear main seal area... Usually they leak because the oil gets baked and forms a hard ring on the crankshaft and allows it to seep by the seal (highly recommend lightly scrubbing the crankshaft before you reinstall the new seal). The other thing, that is a bit more rare but I just dealt with it on a 2019 a while back was that the oil galley plug above the rear main seal will seep oil and look like a traditional rear main seal plate leak. There's no "official" fix for this beyond a short block, but it can be fixed with some creative thinking if you're willing to risk it.

As for the timing cover leak, again would have been nice to see pictures (does this dealership not do that?), but you might still have an actual timing cover leak. Though I would be shocked to find one pissing a quart a day, if I noticed the cover was actively dripping like that, it would be a red flag for sure. I have seen a few Toyota Oil Pressure Switches/Sensors leaking badly, something about the crimp seal or something, they'll literally pour out of the connector housing. We had a rash of them years ago, a bad batch from the supplier I guess? But haven't seen it as often in the last two-three years.

Judging roughly by the vehicle you own and the estimates I am going to guess you have an XREAS system. Generally speaking, if the vehicle is high mileage and you're showing signs of a decent leak on the shock, it's recommended by Toyota to replace the companion shock, center dampener, and associated lines. Also standard practice is to replace shocks in axle pairs, which because it's XREAS, ends up meaning all 4 shocks, center dampeners, and lines. So that's not out of the ordinary, though pictures of the leak would have been nice to see as if it wasn't too bad a leak and you have relatively low mileage you could probably try getting away with just 1 shock.

I can't say they weren't trying to screw you, I have heard some horror stories both on the forum and from others in the industry about dealerships on the East Coast and Southern Regions (not just Toyota ones). But depending on the age/mileage/condition of your vehicle and the actual condition of the leaks when they recommended it, it's possible that whoever looked at the vehicle just didn't catch the signs of a leaking oil pressure sender (again, it's uncommon... but I have seen it happen a few times) and just recommended what they are used to seeing. That being said, they are a business; what would have been truly sleazy is to charge you $4k for a timing cover reseal and then make you pay for the oil sender replacement even though it'd be their incorrect diagnosis on your active oil leak.

 

[2021nightshade4x4]

Not on my Toyota (yet) but Fred Anderson is slimy as hell in general. Sales, finance, service. I bought mine from Hendrick of Wilmington.

If we question the dealer model as a whole, you pay $40-50k for your 4Runner, only to have another man’s name on your hatch. Why doesn’t the dealer put my name on the wall or something? Especially for all that. I can pay $500 and get my name on a brick at a hospital, or $50 and get my name on a brick at a school.

I’ve got big plans for mine after the warranty runs out (I’m playing it safe and doing dealer service only until it runs out).


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[tpetsch]

What's the mileage on your 2016 mmeuli? ..just out of curiosity?
BTW: Happy to hear you found the $40 fix to remedy Toyota's $9000 estimate.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Not on my Toyota (yet) but Fred Anderson is slimy as hell in general. Sales, finance, service. I bought mine from Hendrick of Wilmington.

If we question the dealer model as a whole, you pay $40-50k for your 4Runner, only to have another man’s name on your hatch. Why doesn’t the dealer put my name on the wall or something? Especially for all that. I can pay $500 and get my name on a brick at a hospital, or $50 and get my name on a brick at a school.

I’ve got big plans for mine after the warranty runs out (I’m playing it safe and doing dealer service only until it runs out).


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I am so glad the most we do is put our license plate frames on vehicles, I always DESPISE dealership networks/companies that insist on slapping their stickers/emblems on a nice new vehicle. Like seriously, you think I want to spend $60k on a new vehicle just to have your tacky ass advertising on my car? You paying my detail bill when I have to remove it and it ****s up my paint? :rockthrow:

Also I swear most sales departments for dealerships in general must go to the same training course. If I had a nickel for every time I have had a service customer tell us "sales said it was included/they would pay for it as part of the purchase" when it wasn't in writing, I'd probably have a 5th gen now. Granted the sales department we work with is doesn't seem to be as bad as prior ones I have dealt with; but it still happens every now and then.

What's the mileage on your 2016 mmeuli? ..just out of curiosity?
BTW: Happy to hear you found the $40 fix to remedy Toyota's $9000 estimate.

To be fair, it was a $4k bill for the timing cover, which if it is leaking, won't fix that; but I would prioritize an active leaking oil sender over a relatively passive timing cover leak (I have mentioned to customers in the past to save their money on a timing cover leak and to use it on other repairs that are more important/pressing simply because it's just efficient).

 

[Old Tanker]

I have mostly avoided the local dealers since purchase in 2019. Last month I needed a zero point calibration, the "service consultant" had no idea what I was talking about, and when she returned from a discussion with someone more senior, she quoted three hours of labor. I drove off and fixed it myself with a paper clip in 15 minutes.

The first mod I did after purchasing the vehicle was to remove the dealer name from the tailgate. The second mod was to swap out the license plate frame.

 

[Pavement Tested]

This topic is just one of the reasons I do not go to the dealership for anything unless it is absolutely necessary for recall or warranty work. This is not just a Toyota dealer thing but all dealers in my experience.

From the maintenance side for multiple dealers I've had performance parts stolen off my vehicle, fasteners broken and not replaced, unauthorized work performed, unauthorized parts replaced, misdiagnosed conditions, attempts to charge me for warranty work and maintenance flat out not performed when documented as done.

From the parts side I've had them quote me one price over the phone that was in line with MSRP pricing listed online then try to charge me over 300% markup at the counter with claims they "have to keep the lights on somehow". When pressed on the price it magically went down to the MSRP price.

The last sales experience I had at a manufacturer's dealership (Toyota) was the end of the year last year, my wife and I worked out a deal for a 2022 TRD Pro that wasn't built yet and was scheduled to be delivered 2 months later. We got a final OTD price and secured our own financing through the bank I've been with for over 25 years. With a check in hand to finalize the deal we called the dealership for 3 weeks, left messages or got no answer. Never got any calls returned. Neither the salesman nor the finance dept seemed interested in taking our money so we returned the check to the bank and cancelled the loan. Then called the dealership to get our deposit back. They kept giving my wife the runaround over the phone so after 2 weeks we went in to talk to some management. After about an hour we walked out with a refund. A month later the salesman called and asked if we were going to finalize the deal and we laughed at him, told him that we had killed it a month earlier and he was oblivious.

I bought my 4R at a used car lot in March, which wasn't a much better experience, knowing they didn't have the "extras" the new car dealers try to swindle you into and having what I wanted for a marginally acceptable price, I did my own inspection and made the deal. The dealer advertisement plates and frames were in the trash before the engine oil settled in the pan after arriving home.

It is always my advice to find a locally owned, small shop that has a good reputation and is experienced with the brand of vehicle you own to do your work. You do not HAVE to have your maintenance done at the dealership to maintain the warranty. It just needs to be done on schedule, by an experienced technician and documented properly using materials (fluids, parts, etc.) that meet the manufacture's recommended specifications. If this is done, the manufacturer has no legitimate reason to deny a warranty claim.

 

[JaSC1]

First thing I did was remove the obnoxious dealer advertisement. It was not a decal but a 3d rubber logo! You tube videos of removing without damage helped.

 

[MZ2215]

From the maintenance side for multiple dealers I've had performance parts stolen off my vehicle, fasteners broken and not replaced, unauthorized work performed, unauthorized parts replaced, misdiagnosed conditions, attempts to charge me for warranty work and maintenance flat out not performed when documented as done.

From the parts side I've had them quote me one price over the phone that was in line with MSRP pricing listed online then try to charge me over 300% markup at the counter with claims they "have to keep the lights on somehow". When pressed on the price it magically went down to the MSRP price.

I'm always enthralled by these fantastical descriptions, can you elaborate a little? You've had multiple dealers STEAL performance parts off of your vehicle? Like went in with an aftermarket intake and got home to realize it was gone? Multiple times?!? Like not by mistake replaced a part, but a tech saw your rig roll in, eyed a performance part, and legit stole it? Were the police involved? How were these multiple instances remedied?

In the service dept was there some kind of misunderstanding with the parts in question or are you telling us that at the window when they're ringing your parts up they have a special button that says "dry anal with no lube price" they hit for you? And you just said "hey man i'm not paying your rip off prices" and they were like yeah our bad, we'll charge you the regular price then. Not that it's imposssible, but every time I've purchased parts at the dealer there's a universal part number and the price for the part in the system is the price. It wasn't a "I tried buying a wheel bearing and they rung up a whole hub assembly" situation? Going to the dealership for an oil change and being told you need thousands in repairs is a story old as time, but them intentionally ringing up a part like you've described throws up some new red flags.

Not a fan of dealerships and agree, definitely prefer to have a trusted mechanic in an independent shop, but it sounds like you've either had the worst luck possible or are perhaps slightly hyperbolic when describing your interactions

 

[Humble Leader]

Not on my Toyota (yet) but Fred Anderson is slimy as hell in general. Sales, finance, service. I bought mine from Hendrick of Wilmington.

If we question the dealer model as a whole, you pay $40-50k for your 4Runner, only to have another man’s name on your hatch. Why doesn’t the dealer put my name on the wall or something? Especially for all that. I can pay $500 and get my name on a brick at a hospital, or $50 and get my name on a brick at a school.

I’ve got big plans for mine after the warranty runs out (I’m playing it safe and doing dealer service only until it runs out).


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I can't stand dealers that staple their names to cars. if you want throw on a nice license plate frame with your name that's not obnoxious ok fine, I can just remove it if I want

I don't have any horror stories thank goodness. I think honestly the worst that's happened is lexus broke a plastic push pin for that plastic trim in the engine bay on my wife's RX and didn't replace it lol. the RX needed a new muffler, went in for service but the part hadn't arrived yet. they offered me a new IS 350F for a week to test out until the part came in if I wanted to leave my vehicle there. they knew I drive a long way to get to that dealership. that's probably the worst

I do extensive research on where I bring my vehicle in for service though, probably more than 99% of people out there - so far it has paid off for me. I don't have the tools and don't have mechanical ability to do some of the more complicated stuff so I have to rely on others. maybe if there wasn't any time pressure to have my vehicle operational as a daily driver I could stretch a repair out over a week and take my time but I don't have that luxury

OP you knew this dealer had bogus repairs in the past, why did you waste time and go back? you know what they say... fool me once...

 

[honda250xtitan]

the $1900 charge for rear struts is great. remove wheel, 2 bolts, replace with another generic $50 shock.

 

[Predatorsniper2005]

I took my 2016 Limited 4WD into Fred Anderson Toyota in Charleston, SC with a small oil leak. They then 'discovered' that my rear main and timing cover were leaking, and also 'noticed' one of my front struts had some caked-on dirt, prompting them to say I need new struts and that Toyota ONLY recommends changing all 4.

See attached estimate. I laughed in their faces and left. I decided to start the repairs myself and replaced the rear main seal, which was a giant PITA. Figured I'd test it out and guess what? Oil still leaking.

It got to the point that I was leaking a quart a day. I'm not a mechanic and have no idea how to generally diagnose an oil leak, but I thought it was very unlikely that I'm losing a quart of oil a day via the timing cover.

So, I cleaned off the engine completely with dawn and put UV dye in the oil, and fired it up the next morning. Oil was essentially pouring out of the oil pressure assembly switch.

I bout the OEM part for $30 and a $10 tube of Permatex high temp thread sealant and replaced the existing switch around 5 PM. Let it sit overnight (says 24 hrs to fully cure, but given the weather in Charleston, I was pretty sure it was able to cure faster). Cranked it up in the morning: ZERO OIL LEAKING. ZERO.

I was confused when I pulled the RMS because it didn't really look like anything leaked from it. The original RMS was intact and zero oil was behind the plate it goes into. That's why I questioned the timing cover.

I was able to fix, for $40, what the dealership wanted over $5,000 to 'fix.' and it wouldn't have even fixed it!!!! I've had issues with Fred Anderson coming up with bogus repairs in the past, so I don't usually take them with a grain of salt--but $100 repair BS'ed into $5,000?

So what is the worst thing a dealership has tried to do to you that was total BS?

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OP,

My dealership has done some work on my wife's RAV4. When they were doing their diagnostics, they filmed it on video, then the service advisor sent me that video link with the tech narrating what he is determining the issue/repair needed on my personal vehicle. I thought is went a long way in trusting what the tech was recommending. Not sure if this helps.

Mike

 

[Pedro367]

I just got a coupon for them to check my AC system for me for $450. I thought that was nice of them.

 

[orcking]

They have not yet, because I try not to take it there... I try to do work myself...

 

[I4CUTigers]

I took my 2016 Limited 4WD into Fred Anderson Toyota in Charleston, SC with a small oil leak. They then 'discovered' that my rear main and timing cover were leaking, and also 'noticed' one of my front struts had some caked-on dirt, prompting them to say I need new struts and that Toyota ONLY recommends changing all 4.

See attached estimate. I laughed in their faces and left. I decided to start the repairs myself and replaced the rear main seal, which was a giant PITA. Figured I'd test it out and guess what? Oil still leaking.

It got to the point that I was leaking a quart a day. I'm not a mechanic and have no idea how to generally diagnose an oil leak, but I thought it was very unlikely that I'm losing a quart of oil a day via the timing cover.

So, I cleaned off the engine completely with dawn and put UV dye in the oil, and fired it up the next morning. Oil was essentially pouring out of the oil pressure assembly switch.

I bout the OEM part for $30 and a $10 tube of Permatex high temp thread sealant and replaced the existing switch around 5 PM. Let it sit overnight (says 24 hrs to fully cure, but given the weather in Charleston, I was pretty sure it was able to cure faster). Cranked it up in the morning: ZERO OIL LEAKING. ZERO.

I was confused when I pulled the RMS because it didn't really look like anything leaked from it. The original RMS was intact and zero oil was behind the plate it goes into. That's why I questioned the timing cover.

I was able to fix, for $40, what the dealership wanted over $5,000 to 'fix.' and it wouldn't have even fixed it!!!! I've had issues with Fred Anderson coming up with bogus repairs in the past, so I don't usually take them with a grain of salt--but $100 repair BS'ed into $5,000?

So what is the worst thing a dealership has tried to do to you that was total BS?

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk

Bought my truck from that exact dealer. They have a good alignment guy, but I do everything else myself or would take it to LexTech or Japanese import pros for work I couldn’t or wouldn’t want to do.

They were actually the best price back in 2018 when I bought, but they’re service has always been agonizingly slow. Two techs did pop a bumper back into place without me asking or having to pay, which was nice (it had be damaged in a wreck). Typical dealer, some good, some bad, lots of indifference.

 

[Pavement Tested]

I'm always enthralled by these fantastical descriptions, can you elaborate a little? You've had multiple dealers STEAL performance parts off of your vehicle? Like went in with an aftermarket intake and got home to realize it was gone? Multiple times?!? Like not by mistake replaced a part, but a tech saw your rig roll in, eyed a performance part, and legit stole it? Were the police involved? How were these multiple instances remedied?

At the Dodge dealership, a long time ago, my now ex-wife took my pickup in for a quick lube service and general vehicle inspection as a surprise to me when I returned from deployment. When she picked it up she noted it didn't sound the same. It made a very specific whistle through the intake due to a PowerAid throttle body spacer I had installed. She went back to the service department and asked about it because, when installed, it was visible while standing beside the truck with the hood open. The service manager took her back to the stall it was in for the work and on the tech's tool box was not only my TB spacer (which was bright red) and bolts (it took longer bolts to install) but also my K&N air filter that had been in my airbox that was marked with the STOP sticker they give you to show there's a K&N filter inside the airbox. The tech and the dealership were very lucky that I wasn't the one picking up the truck as I would have gotten outside entities involved. This is not just a story she told me because I had to put the parts back on when I got home.

So you tell me if you think that was an accident and simple oversight or blatant theft...

In the service dept was there some kind of misunderstanding with the parts in question or are you telling us that at the window when they're ringing your parts up they have a special button that says "dry anal with no lube price" they hit for you? And you just said "hey man i'm not paying your rip off prices" and they were like yeah our bad, we'll charge you the regular price then. Not that it's imposssible, but every time I've purchased parts at the dealer there's a universal part number and the price for the part in the system is the price. It wasn't a "I tried buying a wheel bearing and they rung up a whole hub assembly" situation? Going to the dealership for an oil change and being told you need thousands in repairs is a story old as time, but them intentionally ringing up a part like you've described throws up some new red flags.

Not a fan of dealerships and agree, definitely prefer to have a trusted mechanic in an independent shop, but it sounds like you've either had the worst luck possible or are perhaps slightly hyperbolic when describing your interactions

I order parts by manufacturer's part # at the dealership parts counter. I order parts at the auto parts store by the item # listed on their website. I do all my research and know exactly what part I need before I get to the counter. I do this because I've been burned too many time by the person behind the computer not knowing what they were doing. When the price was given over the phone, it was looked up by the part # I gave them which was the correct part when received. They tried to charge me $29 and change for a bolt that MSRP's at $7.70. MSRP, not the "sale" price that online sellers have on their sites. When I asked why my invoice was almost $80 for a roof rack hardware kit (~$20) and 2 bolts I got the comment about keeping the lights on. I pressed again about it the invoice became $36 with no other hassle, not even a manager approval or anything. So your proposed scenario is about what happened.

By the way, MSRP stand for Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price. Put more plainly, it's the price the manufacturer has set so that the retailer turns a profit when they sell the part to the end user or retail customer. There is no further markup needed.

I am what is commonly referred to as a Gear Head or Car Guy. Turns out I've been working on vehicles for a very long time, like 30 years. Trucks, cars, motorcycles, power equipment and more. I've had a LOT of vehicles and maintain them myself. I also do a large amount of maintenance on vehicles owned by friends and family. Sometimes the dealership is a necessary evil to acquire OEM parts in a short time and on rare occasion the service department is needed for a service if I can't make time for it.

Everything I put on my first post is 100% truth and were actual experiences I had with my vehicles at dealerships.

 

[MZ2215]

I am what is commonly referred to as a Gear Head or Car Guy.

You misspelled 'insufferable'

but I'm sorry to hear about your throttle body spacer and intake from that one dealership a long time ago and those two bolts you almost got overcharged for. I hope things get better for you in the future.

 

[2021nightshade4x4]

the $1900 charge for rear struts is great. remove wheel, 2 bolts, replace with another generic $50 shock.

Shit I got FOUR new Bilsteins from a diesel shop (which is known locally known to be pricey) for $600 installed


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[2021nightshade4x4]

I just got a coupon for them to check my AC system for me for $450. I thought that was nice of them.

CHECK your AC for $450? You’re halfway to a new compressor!


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[Pedro367]

CHECK your AC for $450? You’re halfway to a new compressor!


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I lied, the coupon was $25 off of $445

From the ad:

Keep Dad Cool This Summer!

Set Tire Pressure-27 Point Inspection-A/C Cleaning and sterilizing to remove odors-Perform Toyota HVAC foam cleaning procedure- A/C Performance Inspection includes 1 LB of refrigerant-Check Temperature-Check Pressure-Clean Condenser. Regularly $445.