I got lockers on the brain again... Pass on ARB?

[Bumbo]

So... originally when I went down this road I was 100% positive I wanted ARB air lockers. This was a time when we still did a lot of road trips, overland style travel and load-out.... and stuff like that. A selectable locker seemed like the obvious choice.

Since then things have changed... We don't daily drive the 4Runner anymore and the only time we really drive it on the street or freeway is to take it to some place to play with it. Often times that ends up being local desert 1-2 hours away; trails, dunes, sand... more spirited driving and less crawling.

I have been thinking of going with something else but only for the rear... perhaps a Detroit locker, or a Truetrac (Torsen style). Something purely mechanical and something that is also very stout.

Can anyone help me with any pro/cons arguments?

What else should I be looking at? I feel like I dont want a clutch based LSD right now... I rather have a more mechanical device. The question is which one is a better choice? I feel crawler type builds would be better served by a Detroit locker where something with my use case scenario would benefit from a Torsen/Truetrac since its a mechanical based LSD that allows a certain ammo of rotation differentiation on each side of the axle before it locks up 1:1

Also trying to figure out for VSC / Traction control works into this entire argument.

 

[oldmansimek]

I have been down this road before. I will start by saying definitly go with the arb's, the only lockers that really work (detroit) are very harsh espescially if you are doing front and rear without the ability to unlock hubs. You will spend more money but it's not that much more and it is way better. There are very few times you will want your front locked even out on the trail, I had a detroit in the front and welded rear in one of my trucks it was terrible to drive anywhere I ended up with hydraulic steering and eventually an ox locker in the front. I wish I just did arb's in the beginning

 

[jrm]

Yup

been thinking about this as well. I think the option for me would be retrofitting a FJ locker. seems like an economical alternative.

 

[CruzadoBlanco]

if you want a locker and dont want to retrofit a FJ or older 4runner/taco elocker then i would say to look at the Harrop E-locker. more and more people are importing them to the US from australia so they cost no more than an ARB and you dont have to run a compressor and air lines or worry about blowing the seals out of the locker.

its most likely what ill put in my first gen diffs when i get the money, and if i hadnt of already done my retrofit on my 4th gen it would be the same story.

 

[CXS]

For your use I'd suggest forgetting about a front locker which you really don't need. A lunchbox locker in the rear would be good, not much can go wrong and they don't have any of the peripheral stuff that ARB and elockers require and add to the things that can go wrong. I ran a Lockrite in my old truck for years, not real harsh and has a small learning curve for pavement driving.

 

[RonJR]

On older vehicles like my 2nd gen w/o Atrac, the TrueTrac is not adequate. If you lift a wheel you're still stuck. On the other hand, the TrueTrac should enhance the capabilities of your 4th gen Atrac and make a pretty effective combination. The advantage is it's complete invisible on the street.

Since you don't DD your vehicle anymore, however, I agree with the previous poster that a lunchbox locker might be just what you want. Simple, inexpensive, always there, just works. The Aussie or Lockrite are both effective and pretty well-behaved on the street. Even in the front of my '94, the Aussie is pretty easy to live with.

You could put an Aussie in your rear diff in an afternoon. The only tricky part is setting up the backlash again, and that's pretty simple with a $30 dial indicator from HF and a little online reading. The Toyota diffs are easy to adjust for backlash - no shims to mess with, just turn a couple of adjuster wheels. Plus, since it's a 3rd member design, all the tricky work is done out on the bench, not laying under the vehicle.

 

[Anteupp]

same dilemma here... trutracs are great, but offroad the biggest downfall is when a wheel gets up in the air it will still act like an open diff and thats a definite no go for me i need 100% lockup in situation like that.

 

[Bumbo]

As I mentioned in my original post I was only interested in a rear locker now...

I dropped the idea for the fronts because of 1. Cost, and 2. I don't feel like I really need them for how I really use the truck.

Honestly I considered just spooling the rear and just calling it a day. Its rare my truck sees wet or slippery traction... Its a desert truck in SoCal... and we have other things to drive if we have weather.

The reason I like the Torsen is because of its driving performance when all tires are on the ground. Most of the time I am just driving around in deeper sand or following friends on trails in their UTVs. 90% of the time I am also running my center TC locked because 1. I like the traction, 2. it turns off VSC,, but I know I am also putting more stress on that TC than I have to at times...

I really dont know what would be best... I thought on a TrueTrac / Torsen type that even with a tire in the air there would still be a 50/50 to the sides. I thought it would have been similar to the 4th Gen Torsen Center Diff when locked but I must be mistaken. I must be because the point of a torsen was also to allow wheel/axle speed differences between the front and rear for city driving.

Not sure what a Lockrite or a lunchbox locker is. I have to read on it more.

End of the day... this is the type of places I go and the driving I do... I just want more traction and need all my wheels working to help keep that momentum up when on sand or on steeper hill climbs.

That said, there are two other places I have been and had one hell of a time getting around... So as soon as I get a tire off the ground or really low traction the party just ends. My tires probably didn't help, but both these pictures I had to get a tug to get up.

That said, I actually kinda try to stay off the rocks... At this point in time I much rather spend money on better suspension, 2.5" RR Clickers, perhaps long travel, beefed up rear shocks than lockers... I would get more use out of it for the faster paced driving I like to do. But I feel at least a rear locker is in order.

 

[CXS]

Here you go - https://www.powertrax.com

They make the Lock Right (lunch box ) too.

 

[Anteupp]

I have the lock right in the rear of my taco and other than the 4.88's and long travel it is by far the best thing i did to it. Instead of using momentum spinning tires and bouncing my way over an obstacle i just throw it in 4low and slowly make it up anything.

It made it a truly capable off road vehicle. I do the exact wheeling you do Bumbo, i grew up wheeling in ocotillo, plaster, superstition, and everywhere else in socal. Get yourself a nice mechanical locker and call it a day,they are cost effective and worth the little bit if clicking and popping you hear going slow around corners and in the parking lot. Im more than likely throwing one in my 4runner sometime soon.

i will say this though the locker was much more noticeable with 33's, when i got 35's it smoothed it out quite a bit. (on the street that is)

 

[Bumbo]

Here you go - https://www.powertrax.com

They make the Lock Right (lunch box ) too.

Thank You

When I go to the website and try to select a 4Runner I dont see any options... does it use same as a Tacoma?

 

[Bumbo]

I have the lock right in the rear of my taco and other than the 4.88's and long travel it is by far the best thing i did to it. Instead of using momentum spinning tires and bouncing my way over an obstacle i just throw it in 4low and slowly make it up anything.

It made it a truly capable off road vehicle. I do the exact wheeling you do Bumbo, i grew up wheeling in ocotillo, plaster, superstition, and everywhere else in socal. Get yourself a nice mechanical locker and call it a day,they are cost effective and worth the little bit if clicking and popping you hear going slow around corners and in the parking lot. Im more than likely throwing one in my 4runner sometime soon.

i will say this though the locker was much more noticeable with 33's, when i got 35's it smoothed it out quite a bit. (on the street that is)

Awesome... just awesome. The first two pictures are actually Superstition.

So what are the differences between the LockRight and a Detroit Locker?

Is it just branding semantics? , Jacuzzi/hot tub, tissue/Kleenex.

So basically if I am not going to shell out for a selectable, I need to get something that keeps power going to a wheel even if the other is in the air? How does it know not to unlock with a wheel in the air vs turning on the street?

So even though I like a Torsen/Truetrac style LSD, its not ideal for a true off-road truck because it wont do that? What about when just driving around on hard pack dirt and trail? Would you prefer something that feels like a spooled rear than something like an LSD?

I guess the LSD would be a solid improvement on anything that stays on all 4's all the time. For example a performance street truck or car? The Ford Raptor for example has a Torsen rear, but also a pretty advanced traction control system that can probably work with it...

I might not have VSC and DAC available to me... my plan is to dump my zero point calibration to disable those things so I don't have to electrically modify anything in the truck (like the VSC off switch)

 

[Anteupp]

Thank You

When I go to the website and try to select a 4Runner I dont see any options... does it use same as a Tacoma?

as long as you don't have an e locker our 4runner use the Toyota 8" V6 3rd member

 

[Bumbo]

For a DIY garage mechanic, could I buy the entire 3rd member fitted with whatever gearing and diff I want as a drop in item?

I am trying to balance the cost of more parts and my time vs buying parts and having my existing stuff modified.

I could probably work on the thing myself, but I would need to invest a little more into tooling and self .edu to make sure I can get backlash and whatever else I need to set correctly.

That said, I just rather just bolt something in and rock and roll.

All new stuff for me here, but I dont mind a challenge if I understand the process better. This seems a lot easier than dealing with an air locker install. I would have probably farmed that out to a shop.

 

[CXS]

Thank You

When I go to the website and try to select a 4Runner I dont see any options... does it use same as a Tacoma?

Interesting, I don't run a locker on my 4Runner so I can't say. I used a Lockright in my old Land Cruiser.

Sorry, hope someone has an answer!

 

[Anteupp]

For a DIY garage mechanic, could I buy the entire 3rd member fitted with whatever gearing and diff I want as a drop in item?

I am trying to balance the cost of more parts and my time vs buying parts and having my existing stuff modified.

I could probably work on the thing myself, but I would need to invest a little more into tooling and self .edu to make sure I can get backlash and whatever else I need to set correctly.

That said, I just rather just bolt something in and rock and roll.

All new stuff for me here, but I dont mind a challenge if I understand the process better. This seems a lot easier than dealing with an air locker install. I would have probably farmed that out to a shop.

absolutely 100% thats what i did with my tacoma i got everything from east coast gear supply they can set you up with 3rds set up ready to bolt into your truck.

heres the link to what you need. chose the options you want ect... if your confused give them a call and they will steer you in the right direction the guys are super knowlegeable and won't hesitate to help you out.
Toyota V6 8''- Pickup, 4runner,FJ Criuser


tore down front and rear and installed a new 3rd/front clamshell in about 6 hours. with having beers and home made ceviche in between lol

 

[Anteupp]

Interesting, I don't run a locker on my 4Runner so I can't say. I used a Lockright in my old Land Cruiser.

Sorry, hope someone has an answer!

our 4runners share the same third as these trucks :thumb:

86-95 V6 Toyota Pick-up and 4runners
96-2009 present 4runners without Elocker
07-11 FJ Cruiser without Elocker

 

[Anteupp]

good write up of an install.

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/138476-lock-right-locker-install.html

 

[RonJR]

The easiest way to conceptually think of a lunchbox locker is as a ratchet connecting each wheel on an axle to the ring gear. Either wheel can go faster than the ring gear in the diff, but no wheel can go slower. So, when you go around a corner, the outside wheel ratchet clicks over and allows the outside wheel to go faster so it doesn't scrub, while the inside wheel provides power through the turn. When you lift a wheel on the trail, the ratchet on the side of the wheel still on the ground keeps that wheel turning and keeps you moving. A lunchbox locker will power right through the lifted wheel problem you show in your picture - in fact you won't even notice the obstacle. The difference is that dramatic.

My "ratchet" description is over-simplified, because unlike a simple ratchet, the lockers work in both forward and reverse, as well as for holding back on downhills. It's a cleverly simple device, but works extremely well. The only downside is some clicking when going around corners on pavement, but you get used to driving so as to minimize that.

A Truetrac is a different animal. It is a geared limited slip similar to a Torsen when unlocked. Whereas an open diff splits torque 50/50 all the time, the Truetrac sends up to 3x as much torque to the slower wheel as to the faster wheel (so, a 75/25 split). However, if a wheel is lifted, the torque is zero, and 3 times zero is still zero, so you still don't go anywhere. The Truetrac shines on snow, sand, mud, where there is unequal but non-zero traction on each wheel. Stand alone it's not effective when a wheel is lifted, although in combination with ATRAC it would likely handle the obstacle you showed without too much difficulty.

 

[Johnny4runner]

My 2c on traction control differentials is that I installed a Trutrac in back on my 4Runner 2 years ago and love it. I've always felt it gave me enough traction--never left one wheel spinning. I can't say I've been looking to see when a wheel lifted, but in slippery conditions both rear wheels always turned together (whether they had traction or not), probably helped by ATRAC. BTW for off road you want a helical differential like a trutrac, not a clutch LSD that will burn out. BTW ECGS is a great way to go for a built third.

I've driven a Jeep with a Detroit Locker in back quite a bit also, and like having an autolocker in back that constantly acts to improve traction, over a selectable locker. I never understood why someone would want to have turn their ARB on and off in back (the front is different). The Detroit is the ultimate in offroad traction. It provides unbelievable traction and is just there when you need it. The downside is that it actually reduces your traction on road. Due to the action of the differential, it will drive only the inside wheel in a corner. In slippery conditions this means your inside wheel in turns slips very easily--not so super. So I say Detroit Locker is the best for purely hardcore offroad, but Trutrac is pretty damn good for all around on/off road driving. And unlike a Detroit, it will never annoy or scare you on road.

Best, J4R