I hate alignment shops

[JayRolla]

I've always had issues getting alignments. I've been to them all.

Firestone turned me down because of mods. Recommended a shop that does lifted vehicles to have them turn me down because of seized cam bolts.

Toyota Dealer got me in spec but the camber seemed way off and was getting v type wear on front tires.

So I bring it to Big O and they said they dont print alignment sheets so I just walked out.

Bring it to Tire World and they say its way out of spec from the dealer. They realign. Recommended 5* positive caster and it pretty much stopped all my tire rubbing at the wheel well. BUT CAMBER STILL VISUALLY WAY OFF!! They promise me to trust the alignment machine. Way down the line the tires have major V wear. Just like I knew it would.

Move down a year or 2 and my tires are worn out. Buy some new tires. Just finished up my LCA bushing install. I find Brakes Plus is doing $50 deal so I think why not, lets try them now.

First off I tell them I want 5* positive caster because thats where it was. They show me my newer SPC upper ball joint already has play. I ask them to get it in spec as close as possible. Tech tells me the rack is a few teeth off from when it was replaced. I know this and they usually adjust it out with tie rod ends. Not these guys, they just leave my steering off like 90* and say I need to adjust the steering rack.

I get kind of upset but say whatever because its not hard to adjust at the rack. I find they didn't install my steering rack boot clamps. No big deal. They didn't TQ my SPC UCA bolts down and first bump the tires move out of alignment.

Ohh and they put caster at 3*, lots of rub and did not listen to one thing I told them.

Sorrry for the rant!!!!!!!

 

[DK327]

I took my vehicle to Tires Plus to get my alignment (lifetime for $150) when I purchased 5 new A/T tires from them about a month ago with good results. They did NOT give me a before and after print out because their printer was broken but did provide 2 pictures the tech took with his phone of the screen before and after and emailed it to me. They also use the Hunter machine to balance tires as a bonus. They had no issues servicing someone's wheels equipped with spacers too, while I was waiting on mine, so might want to try them out. I had positive experience.

 

[JayRolla]

I took my vehicle to Tires Plus to get my alignment (lifetime for $150) when I purchased 5 new A/T tires from them about a month ago with good results. They did NOT give me a before and after print out because their printer was broken but did provide 2 pictures the tech took with his phone of the screen before and after and emailed it to me. They also use the Hunter machine to balance tires as a bonus. They had no issues servicing someone's wheels equipped with spacers too, while I was waiting on mine, so might want to try them out. I had positive experience.

It really depends on the tech at the shop. I never really blame the shop, just the monkeys in there. No Tires Plus in my area that I know of.

I called Brakes Plus and they are having me bring it back in. Manager was real nice and said he will make sure he gets it fixed for me. Issue is I cant get any time till Wednesday afternoon. Im hoping for straight tires, straight steering wheel and hopefully some more positive caster.

 

[Bijan]

Call Phil @ Smooth Ride in NorthGlenn... see who he uses. $80 but always on point.

 

[JRZEE2000TR4LTD]

I've always had issues getting alignments. I've been to them all.

Firestone turned me down because of mods. Recommended a shop that does lifted vehicles to have them turn me down because of seized cam bolts.

Toyota Dealer got me in spec but the camber seemed way off and was getting v type wear on front tires.

So I bring it to Big O and they said they dont print alignment sheets so I just walked out.

Bring it to Tire World and they say its way out of spec from the dealer. They realign. Recommended 5* positive caster and it pretty much stopped all my tire rubbing at the wheel well. BUT CAMBER STILL VISUALLY WAY OFF!! They promise me to trust the alignment machine. Way down the line the tires have major V wear. Just like I knew it would.

Move down a year or 2 and my tires are worn out. Buy some new tires. Just finished up my LCA bushing install. I find Brakes Plus is doing $50 deal so I think why not, lets try them now.

First off I tell them I want 5* positive caster because thats where it was. They show me my newer SPC upper ball joint already has play. I ask them to get it in spec as close as possible. Tech tells me the rack is a few teeth off from when it was replaced. I know this and they usually adjust it out with tie rod ends. Not these guys, they just leave my steering off like 90* and say I need to adjust the steering rack.

I get kind of upset but say whatever because its not hard to adjust at the rack. I find they didn't install my steering rack boot clamps. No big deal. They didn't TQ my SPC UCA bolts down and first bump the tires move out of alignment.

Ohh and they put caster at 3*, lots of rub and did not listen to one thing I told them.

Sorrry for the rant!!!!!!!

I feel ya. I've had the same issues. It's a lost art I think. Couple things I have to mention.
The SPC UCAs can be some what tricky. Since the pivot point is at the top, if you put them on a setting for greater caster (cant remember the letter settings right now) it actually moves the whole UCA back which creates tire rubbing on the back of the wheel well. On the other hand, the cam eccentrics push The LCAs forward which can cause rubbing on the front of the wheel well (and also affect the camber). Both do effectively change the caster angle but where the wheel asy falls could be completely different with the same Caster angle. Unfortunately it actually takes time to get it right and all these "alignment" techs want to do is set the toe and let it go. The weird part is doing alignments on our trucks is kinda simple if you really understand the angles and how to manipulate them. Some vehicles are much more difficult. I always found it amusing to go out to sites and see their really nice shelves and cabinets full of shims and eccentrics and they NEVER were used.

In your case Jay, I'm just not sure you'll be able to get 5 degrees caster and have the camber in spec. I assume the reason you want so much caster is because of tire rubbing but as I said earlier, both angles are related adjustment wise on the LCAs. If I remember right, if you were stock with LCAs and UCAs, if you adjusted the fronts so the circle on the cam is pointing in towards each other and adjust the rears as far as it can go pointing out but within camber spec then what ever angle caster is at that point is the max amount of caster you'll get. That's the nice thing about the SPC UCAs is you can bolt them up with those max readings and you should have close to 4 degrees caster and should have plenty of adjustability in camber within the UCAs. Of course, I'm referencing my 3" lift so the higher you go, the less caster you'll have.

When your camber was visually out was the camber on the SPC UCAs all the way out? If not you can use a level (on a level surface) and get it pretty close as camber is the easiest angle to see, as you can attest to.

 

[JayRolla]

I feel ya. I've had the same issues. It's a lost art I think. Couple things I have to mention.
The SPC UCAs can be some what tricky. Since the pivot point is at the top, if you put them on a setting for greater caster (cant remember the letter settings right now) it actually moves the whole UCA back which creates tire rubbing on the back of the wheel well. On the other hand, the cam eccentrics push The LCAs forward which can cause rubbing on the front of the wheel well (and also affect the camber). Both do effectively change the caster angle but where the wheel asy falls could be completely different with the same Caster angle. Unfortunately it actually takes time to get it right and all these "alignment" techs want to do is set the toe and let it go. The weird part is doing alignments on our trucks is kinda simple if you really understand the angles and how to manipulate them. Some vehicles are much more difficult. I always found it amusing to go out to sites and see their really nice shelves and cabinets full of shims and eccentrics and they NEVER were used.

In your case Jay, I'm just not sure you'll be able to get 5 degrees caster and have the camber in spec. I assume the reason you want so much caster is because of tire rubbing but as I said earlier, both angles are related adjustment wise on the LCAs. If I remember right, if you were stock with LCAs and UCAs, if you adjusted the fronts so the circle on the cam is pointing in towards each other and adjust the rears as far as it can go pointing out but within camber spec then what ever angle caster is at that point is the max amount of caster you'll get. That's the nice thing about the SPC UCAs is you can bolt them up with those max readings and you should have close to 4 degrees caster and should have plenty of adjustability in camber within the UCAs. Of course, I'm referencing my 3" lift so the higher you go, the less caster you'll have.

When your camber was visually out was the camber on the SPC UCAs all the way out? If not you can use a level (on a level surface) and get it pretty close as camber is the easiest angle to see, as you can attest to.

I have the SPC ball joint set to the most positive caster available. Max I could get before the control arm swap was about 1*. After installing the SPC's and setting to the most caster I was at about 5* with the cam bolts adjusted for positive caster. I still had camber adjustment at this point and camber was zero'ed out on the machine.

Im going to tell them get me as close to 5* possible while keeping the camber in spec. There is still a lot of camber adjustment on the upper arms so I'm sure they can get more out of it.

 

[Unner]

Is there a newer firestone in your area? The one here in Greenville is old and I will never go back after the "tech" told me my tie rods were frozen. They're brand new OEM tie rods with less than 10k miles. He was turning the wrenches the wrong way and said he's never seen a truck that they turned this direction on...

The one back home is great though. It's brand new, like a year old, and I always have the same tech do my alignment. He always does a great job and I stand in the garage and watch him do it. They've never said a word to me about a modified vehicle and would do my alignment every day if I wanted it done. I think I've spent maybe $100 there on having tires balanced and that's it. Lifetime alignment is great.

If there's another firestone around you I would try that and see what they say. The one back home is able to get my caster right at the lower end of the stock spec and always get's my camber and toe right in the middle of spec, and even evens it out side to side so the side to side difference is 0.

 

[snivilous]

Techs are idiots. They have a cheat sheet, turn this bolt here, turn that bolt there, etc. but don't actually understand how suspension geometry works. I had a guy looking all over my suspension before because he couldn't comprehend how you would adjust anything through the UCA. I can't really recommend any shops, but if your camber is visually off I would try to correct it yourself if possible, at least as a temporary fix. In my experience you can get camber within a fraction of a degree of vertical using a level on your wheel or eye balling it.

Good luck finding a decent shop, I would try to look for guys who align race cars or really weird shit like that. I've also had luck from people at automotive schools, maybe go in and see if they can align it since they teach that shit so should understand how it works.

 

[Unner]

Or see if there is a self service shop somewhere?

Maybe you have a military buddy or are military yourself and have access to the auto craft shop? Some of them have alignment racks.

 

[AZBub]

Wile I can not stand the majority of the people at the Big O at least the mechanic who did the work will usually come out and go over the alignment, with a print out. I just had mine aligned but they left caster the same. I was kind of disappointed but they let me know at least one of my lower bushings is torn. Adding more castor would put more strain on the bushings. I presume they thought I wouldn't understand so just told me about the worn out bushings and left it at that.

But Fletcher's auto. crappy work, they don't care, they won't let you see the alignment print out nor let you read the mechanics notes. That's pretty damn shady.


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[JRZEE2000TR4LTD]

Wile I can not stand the majority of the people at the Big O at least the mechanic who did the work will usually come out and go over the alignment, with a print out. I just had mine aligned but they left caster the same. I was kind of disappointed but they let me know at least one of my lower bushings is torn. Adding more castor would put more strain on the bushings. I presume they thought I wouldn't understand so just told me about the worn out bushings and left it at that.

But Fletcher's auto. crappy work, they don't care, they won't let you see the alignment print out nor let you read the mechanics notes. That's pretty damn shady.


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Did they charge you for an alignment? They shouldn't have as you would need to fix the bushing first then get the alignment. That's all apart of a pre inspection alignment. Like making sure there's correct tire pressure so you get accurate readings and looking for bent/damaged parts, as in your case.
If they did charge the alignment I would at least hope it was on the premise that you could bring it back and get a "discounted" alignment after the bushing repair.

 

[JRZEE2000TR4LTD]

I have the SPC ball joint set to the most positive caster available. Max I could get before the control arm swap was about 1*. After installing the SPC's and setting to the most caster I was at about 5* with the cam bolts adjusted for positive caster. I still had camber adjustment at this point and camber was zero'ed out on the machine.

Im going to tell them get me as close to 5* possible while keeping the camber in spec. There is still a lot of camber adjustment on the upper arms so I'm sure they can get more out of it.

I see you have a body lift so I guess you wouldn't rub the rear wheel well with those UCAs set all the way back like that. Sounds like your good to go. I guess what I don't understand is if you can see wacked out camber, why can't the shop? and if they are going by the alignment machine, which says it's close to zero, how much faith can you have that the readings are accurate?

 

[IBallEngineer]

Jay, if you give me a zip code I'll ask our local rep for a good alignment shop within a few miles. You know I sell the aligners for a living right? And I feel you, most of the guys I sell to don't know squat. Or don't care to know.

:violin:

 

[7echo]

"... but don't actually understand how suspension geometry works. "

Snivilous summed up the problem with that comment.

 

[mountain mike]

Rex Tire is very familiar with the SPC UCA's. I use them most of the time and then Grey's Auto on Nevada as a back up. Call Rex, they will have a wait to get you in, but they are pretty good.

 

[infamousRNR]

Jay, if you give me a zip code I'll ask our local rep for a good alignment shop within a few miles. You know I sell the aligners for a living right? And I feel you, most of the guys I sell to don't know squat. Or don't care to know.

:violin:

i bought into the "lifetime" alignment as well and although i have nothing bad to say about firestone, i did have to take it back twice and its still not "perfect" but pretty close..

with that said, because you work with alignment shops, can you recommend any specific shops to mount and balance tires? this is also a pain point for quite a lot of 4runner/toyota truck owners that have problems with the tires at highway speeds. Most people recommend a "road force balance" or by using a "haweka" adapter.

zip code is 95051 (bay area)

 

[kindred4x]

Rex Tire is very familiar with the SPC UCA's. I use them most of the time and then Grey's Auto on Nevada as a back up. Call Rex, they will have a wait to get you in, but they are pretty good.

Awesome.... I have been looking for a good shop in the springs for some time with my lifted explorer, and my 4runner

Brakes Plus Palmer Park Powers- FAIL!
- 4runner= Tech did not torque cam bolts to spec, print out was not available due to a "broken printer" steering wheel off center
- Lifted explorer= Tech did not torque upper control arm adjustment bolts, result bent shock, clicking noise, and bad tire wear
- Brothers Lifted Pathfinder= Again loose bolts with same results. Brakes Plus on Palmer park and powers is garbage!

Sears Chapel Hills
- Ford= Steering wheel off center, can't align because I am "modified" total BS

Pep Boys South Academy
- Ford= Can't align because I am lifted, even though I have the correct parts and components to achieve factory specs. Have not stepped foot in that so called shop since then

Les swhab north powers.
- Toyota= Decided to give them a shot, due to brand new equipment. Been a pretty good experience

I am always on the hunt for a good/better alignment shop so when I install my new rack I will give rex a call. Thanks

 

[seank]

Ugh, you all have me stressing out. I'm installing a 3" suspension lift and spacers in preparation for 35's this weekend and have no clue where to take my runner for alignment, mounting and balancing in Denver. And Co Springs is too far for a tow. Time to start calling around...

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[bugman-74]

If I had a nickel for every "broken printer" I've encountered at an alignment shop I'd be rich. Its a common tactic, and they might as well tell you they are going to waste your time and they arent going to bother adjusting anything.

I have had this issue with one of the firestone's near me. I will never go back there. However, a buddy of mine recommended a firestone across town from me. I gave them a shot, and they did a great job, full printout, etc.

 

[SilverRidgeRunner1]

I was out of town once and needed a alignment on the fly and doing this for kind of work for years I watch this new guy working with a Bean alignment machine and he couldn't get the Toe correct... I finally walked around there to where he was working and said hey u need me to show u how to Compensate for this to get it right on the spec... Poor guy said sure so I adjust the passenger side out a few + degree and the proceeded to adjust the driver side couple -degree with a perfect 0 overall and the poor guy about die.... Needless to say the shop gave the alignment for free... Thank god for the HUNTER Hawkeye machine best piece of engineering I've had the pleasure of using