I wish i had disabled abs before today

[mkelder]

So i have been riding in my 98 4runner for three months now and think i am very used to how it drives and what i can expect from it. I read about the abs system on these early 4runner can sometimes be a problem. While offroading i noticed quite a few instances where the abs would cut all braking at low speed for really poor reasons (like a little mud causes a split second of lock up that you'd normally not even noticed and stopped with any other vehicle with or without abs. Or on a steep downhill braking on loose rocks. Or on some washboard gravel.
All of those conditions would normally enable some sort of response from an abs to try and gain traction or not loose control but this HORRIBLE excuse for an abs that toyota put on these 4runners never should have made the grade. My 4runner seems as though it cuts damn near all braking entirely! I really wish i headed the warnings. Why? Because today this fault became far worse that uncomfortable offroad.

Today i pull up into a drive-thru that has someone in thier car waiting in line. I brake from going about 5mph down to 2mph (at this speed it doesnt even show up on most car speedo FFS) and then i apply a little more pedal to complete the stop a few feet behind the car and all of a sudden the abs kicks into full alert and acts like i am going 100mph on ice and removes all brakes as the pedal vibrates my foot.

In the one second of time i had of shock before i hit the car i unfortunetly didnt have the presence of mind to pull the ebrake or even slam it i to P (and i would risk the damage to tranny than to hit someone else). I couldnt believe it happend (nor could anyone else). Even if my brakes were fault in some way i would have been able to stop. I was going so slow i could have fred flintstone stopped the damn thing if it didnt weigh so much. End result? Here 08 plastic bumper car had the snap holders pop out here and there as well as some trunk damage. This will end up costing me the full repair which with the high visible plastic bumper type damage will be a lot or cost me in insuranve premiums for a number of years.

Within the hour i had the fuse for the abs say good bye and went on my 4x4 day trip that was planned (and of course had this in the back of my mind all day). It was really great not having a finicky abs during the offroad fun but i never thought it would cause me to hit someone.

I am going to remove the entire abs system and throw it through my local toyota dealers wi dow with a note that says this junk cost me more than uour window. Please take this junk back.

All kidding aside.... it is my own fault i hit another car regardless of the conditions but i really do wish i had listened to the smart people here. Sorry for the long read.

 

[20034RunnerV84x2]

When you need it, you'll wish you had it. Your truck could turn up like mine did in 2010.

 

[93cr250]

It's great in snow and icy conditions. But yes it can be annoying at times when it kicks in. I keep mine because it has helped in numerous occasions when I need to slam on the brakes for a deer and not having to worry about locking the wheels up and losing steering.

 

[BrianSD_42]

It failed when braking from 5 mph down to 2 mph in a drive through?

That sounds like a very bizarre outlier and I would recommend you get your braking system checked but don't remove the abs completely.

 

[BlackCat914]

Sounds like you have a faulty speed sensor. ABS should never kick in during light braking on dry pavement. A faulty speed sensor will provide incorrect speed values causing the truck to think its losing traction and activate ABS.

 

[pattycakes77]

I've had mine out for 7 or 8 years now, never regretted it. I grew up driving non abs cars so I know how to drive and stay in control. Driving slow in bad conditions, giving lots of room between cars, pumping the brakes, etc are keys to driving safe anyway with the added benefit of the DRIVER being in control of the vehicle.

I toyed with the idea of having a switch to cut power to the fuse to disable and then switch back when I wanted ABS. When I thought about it I asked "When am I ever going to want ABS?" and I never installed a switch.

*Someday I'll find a non-ABS 4runner and get the brake lines so I can completely delete the ABS on my 4runner.

 

[snivilous]

I have never had issue with abs, fast or slow, steep or level, snowy or dry, or any combination. It sounds like something else is screwed up.

 

[Kurtis]

I've have never had issues with the ABS in my '97. However my '02 is another story. I've had the ABS kick in at weird times. I'd had it kick in going down a steep hill when the roads were wet. It was a combination of a steep hill, less than outstanding tires, and fresh rain so all the oil was still on the road. I just let off the brakes and applied them again but softly. I have better tires now and I have not had one issue since.

Your drive-thru experience does not surprise me one bit. There is normally a ton of oil on the ground in a drive thru. I don't know it you are lifted but that will also make a difference.

Keep in mind that if you disable your ABS your insurance company might not cover you in a accident or worse, you might find your self with a large lawsuit if you are in an accident. Then there is the dieing thing since you can't steer in a skid

 

[Yoter]

I live in a steep hilly area and my ABS will kick in while descending on dry pavement at low speeds, but only if I am trying to come to a complete stop its super annoying.

My question is wouldn't a faulty speed sensor throw a code and illuminate the ABS dash light???

 

[BlackCat914]

I live in a steep hilly area and my ABS will kick in while descending on dry pavement at low speeds, but only if I am trying to come to a complete stop its super annoying.

My question is wouldn't a faulty speed sensor throw a code and illuminate the ABS dash light???

No, the truck doesn't know anything is wrong, it just thinks your sliding.

 

[wallytoo]

When you need it, you'll wish you had it. Your truck could turn up like mine did in 2010.

thankfully, my 87 runner didn't have abs available.

if it did, i'd remove it. and i'll never wish any of my vehicles have it. i disabled it on my 95 legacy, and drove that for 12 years without it. the only time i had any problem stopping the legacy was on the drive home from the dealer, in slushy conditions. after disabling, i never had an issue stopping that car, whether on dry pavement, snow, ice, mud or loose dirt.

your truck didn't end up all smacked up because you didn't have abs. it ended up smacked up because you were going too fast for whatever condition you were driving in, and abs wouldn't have prevented it.

 

[Mynameistommy510]

I have to agree with previous posters. ABS can be a negative for a good driver that is able to recognize a wheel locking up and react accordingly. But for average drivers that I see on the road in Florida, I am so thankful ABS and Traction control exist. And like anything else these systems can fail.

 

[T4R2014]

I'm pretty sure that disabling your ABS is illegal. If you do get into an accident and they find that you disabled your ABS then you might be in some bigger trouble. And yeah, get your ABS system checked out. I'm sure it's a bad sensor or something. If the factory ABS system was bad then there would have been reports of this 15+ years ago that may have resulted in a recall.

BTW, I don't recommend anybody disable their ABS just because they read about some random guy doing it on an internet forum. Just don't trust everything you find on the internet.

 

[steezemcqueen]

The ABS system isn't active below 10mph. Something else was going on with your brakes.

 

[shootmymime]

The ABS system isn't active below 10mph. Something else was going on with your brakes.

Id like to argue that point. On both my 3rd gens 96, 00;
going down my gravel driveway i slide some times and ABS kicks in, (below 10mph) as a result it makes me roll right into the street. an extra 5 feet mind you.

But i have found that if you mash the break peddle that it helps to stop you better. so next time you find the abs kicking in throw your foot down HARD and it will give you better stopping power.

 

[20034RunnerV84x2]

thankfully, my 87 runner didn't have abs available.

if it did, i'd remove it. and i'll never wish any of my vehicles have it. i disabled it on my 95 legacy, and drove that for 12 years without it. the only time i had any problem stopping the legacy was on the drive home from the dealer, in slushy conditions. after disabling, i never had an issue stopping that car, whether on dry pavement, snow, ice, mud or loose dirt.

your truck didn't end up all smacked up because you didn't have abs. it ended up smacked up because you were going too fast for whatever condition you were driving in, and abs wouldn't have prevented it.

Mhm, last I checked you wen't in it when the crash happened. The ABS fuse was removed because being 16, I was cocky and thought I was invincible from everything. Turns out, tires locking doesn't help when you're trying to stop from hitting a car that pulled out in front of you. Like the OP, I didn't think of pumping the breaks, pulling the E Break or dropping it into N. If he couldn't do it from 5 MPH, he surely couldn't do it from 40, 20, 55, or 80 MPH. ABS it a lot quicker to respond that your self. GO to an empty road and try it for yourself, you may do it alone but when your life flashes before your eyes all you're thinking about is stopping and instead of pumping the breaks, you push harder. I'm thankful for ABS and it has saved me multiple times where I couldn't save myself.

 

[wallytoo]

the issue with abs isn't the design, it's that most of us don't understand its purpose. it wasn't designed to make the vehicle stop in a shorter distance, although some abs vehicles do, depending on surface and conditions. it was designed to allow steering/directional control while braking, which does not always equate to shorter stopping distances compared to non-abs vehicles (or indeed, stopping at all).

there is plenty of data that shows marked differences in abs performance. while not universal, most abs systems require longer stopping distances in snow covered pavement and loose dirt. some abs systems do result in shorter stopping distances on dry/wet pavement, but many do not. most abs systems do perform better than non-abs in allowing steering while braking (me, i pretty much want to stop/slow down when i apply my brakes).

abs is a cure-all, just like traction control. it dilutes the driver's awareness of road conditions, and instills a sense of invincibility not appropriate for our driving skills, leading to higher speeds and similar accident rates w/r/t abs vs non-abs cars. if, IF, abs/traction control equipped drivers drove more cautiously, as thogh they had a "regular" car, the accident rate probably would be lower for such vehichles.


i still submit that whether you had abs or not, you'd still have a smashed front of the car, even if it wasn't your fault. maybe with a little more driving experience, and abs, you could have steered around the car that pulled in front of you - but would you have then run head-on into a car in the other lane? some crashes are unavoidable. don't beat yourself up worrying that abs might have kept your front end clean. also, how would dropping into N have helped you avoid your crash? last i checked, 80 isn't legal in most places. it isn't legal anywhere in the northeast.

i've been in several emergency stops, none with abs. i did manage to threshold brake, and avoid the crash. i was also t-boned by a driver running a stop sign, and it wouldn't have mattered a damn bit whether my car had abs (it didn't), i was still going to get hit.

 

[BlackCat914]

The ABS system isn't active below 10mph. Something else was going on with your brakes.

it is when you have a speed sensor thinking the truck is going faster than 10mph.

 

[wallytoo]

I'm pretty sure that disabling your ABS is illegal. If you do get into an accident and they find that you disabled your ABS then you might be in some bigger trouble. And yeah, get your ABS system checked out. I'm sure it's a bad sensor or something. If the factory ABS system was bad then there would have been reports of this 15+ years ago that may have resulted in a recall.

BTW, I don't recommend anybody disable their ABS just because they read about some random guy doing it on an internet forum. Just don't trust everything you find on the internet.

i'm sure that it is, but it's a dopey law. non-abs equipped vehicles aren't required to be retrofitted (and i hope they never are), and the default for an abs system malfunction is to operate as a "standard" brake system.

i'm not recommending that anyone disable their abs system. i did it based on real experience with the vehicle in question, and i deliberately chose a replacement vehicle that didn't have an abs option. i've pretty much driven in any driving conditions possible in the lower 48. i have seen nothing that suggests to me that abs is either needed or required. frankly, the fact that i can threshold brake my 48 dump truck in snow/ice/gravel tells me enough about abs.

 

[GergDees]

Sounds like you have a faulty speed sensor. ABS should never kick in during light braking on dry pavement. A faulty speed sensor will provide incorrect speed values causing the truck to think its losing traction and activate ABS.

^^This^^

I'm not sure if this will apply as I haven't heard of this issue on any other vehicles except for GM full size SUVs from the last decade (e.g. Tahoe, Suburban, Yukon, etc. and probably their full size trucks as well), but those vehicles have an issue with rust on the mounting surface for the ABS sensor. The rust will slowly expand, flexing and pushing the ABS sensor further and further away from the ABS tone ring on the front axles. This causes the ABS system to display erratic behavior as it will temporarily lose the "signal" from the tone ring. If the ABS control module does not detect a signal change from a wheel sensor, it believes the wheel is locked up and it will kick in the ABS accordingly. I drove a Tahoe on a short diagnostic test drive that had this issue on both front wheels, and the brakes were nearly non-existent below 5 MPH. Needless to say, stopping distances were very significantly increased. I pulled the ABS fuse, and the truck stopped just fine. If I remember right, that truck didn't have an ABS light on either.

The solution to that problem was to pull out the wheel sensors and use a right angle die grinder with a Scotch-Brite Roloc surface prep disc to clean the rust off of the mounting surface. I also used a round wire brush to clean out the hole the sensor goes in. I used one of those stiff round wire brushes that are made for preparing copper plumbing pipe fittings for soldering. Then just put the wheel sensors back in and take it for a spin. Not sure if this would apply to our 4Runners or not, but it's a quick fix and might be worth the time to give it a shot. Like I said, I've only seen or heard about it happening on GM full size SUVs.

Be forewarned though, sometimes ABS sensors don't like to come out of the hole they're in and will break in two when you try to force it out.