Icon Stage 1 Lift Kit Questions

[silverslug]

Just got my stage 1 lift kit installed with SPC UCAs. Love the ride, both on and off road. However, my installer had to make serious coilover ride height adjustments to the front ride height in order to get the T4R level. Initially it was about ⅝” lower on the driver side. After the adjustments (and realignment) it is now level at aprox. 23” from hub to bottom of fender opening. The problem is that there are almost twice as many threads showing on the driver side vs. the passenger side now -- 2 inches of threads on driver side vs. 1 inch of threads on passenger side!. My questions are:

Is this normal as my installer is telling me?
If it isn’t normal, what’s wrong with the installation?
Will it cause any problems with the coilovers and/or degrade performance?

Thanks in advance for any advice you guys can provide.

Truck after lift:

Driver side coilover threads:

Passenger side coilover threads:

 

[Fern]

It is known as the driver side lean. It's normal.

 

[cmilviper]

Yep, Very normal to have significantly more pre-load on the driver's side, to get it leveled out.

 

[silverslug]

Thanks, Guys! Aware of the driver side lean, but didn't think it would take so many turns on those threads to correct a 5/8" inch lean. That makes me feel much better with a Moab trip coming up in 2 weeks. CBI steel skids going on this week and then ready to roll.

 

[4runnin4mylife]

Thanks, Guys! Aware of the driver side lean, but didn't think it would take so many turns on those threads to correct a 5/8" inch lean. That makes me feel much better with a Moab trip coming up in 2 weeks. CBI steel skids going on this week and then ready to roll.

Not to send off any alarm bells, but I do think that 1 inch more preload to make up for 5/8" driver side lean is quite excessive. Now I wish i could point to something for you to check out, but there is not any reason you should have to have it cranked 1" more on one side to make up for 5/8" lean. That should be maybe 2 turns of the coilover, three at the VERY most to make up for that.

That 2" preload makes you almost maxed out on one side... not right in my opinion. I also think that with 2" of thread showing, you should be higher than 23" also. I have 2" threads showing on both of mine, and with that I'm at 23" with a hybrid bumper, 10,000 lb. winch, and lightbar up front which dropped the front about 1/2" from the weight.

I wouldn't worry too much about the 23" you are getting on both sides now, as much as having one side cranked so much over the other. I just thought I would add that detail, just to give you an idea on what height someone else is getting!

Your mileage may vary, but that is just my 2 cents.

 

[silverslug]

Thanks for your input [MENTION=144945]4runnin4mylife[/MENTION] .... those were my thoughts exactly. I would have expected maybe a half-inch difference between the threads showing on the driver vs. passenger side to level it out, NOT almost a whole inch. I just can't figure out what else would be causing the installer to have to crank so much preload in order to level things out left to right. I also notice with the current setup that almost all the rake is gone vs. stock and had expected the front to be about 22 inches, not 23. Maybe I need to have him lower the entire front end by about 1/2 inch?

I don't care much about the lift; I'm really more interested in getting the best compression and rebound possible and having the least amount of driver side lean as possible. Perhaps it would be worth leaving a little of the driver side lean???

 

[shrub1]

Post a pic of your driver CV boot.

 

[silverslug]

Post a pic of your driver CV boot.

Interesting observation!! Driver side CV joint angle definitely greater ...

Driver side CV boot:

Passenger side CV boot:

 

[MAST4R]

Can you measure your down travel (fender to a convenient spot on the hub) and tell us how much travel you have pax and driver (no need to post the fender to hub distances)? Apparently, the correct way is to jack the front and then measure as both are at full droop and not wheel by wheel.

And also your lift size.

On the face of it, one inch between sides sounds too much. I am no expert but the normal amount needed to compensate is 0.4" -0.5" inches of lift so less than that on the shock.

EDIT: also, lift on any one corner affects the diagonally opposed corner. What is your case in the rear?

 

[shrub1]

Interesting observation!! Driver side CV joint angle definitely greater ...

Driver side CV boot:

Passenger side CV boot:

If you just got this installed it will settle some.

We have pretty much the same set up and I gave up on measurements and started to pay more attention to CV boot rub and to even out both sides as much as possible with minimal bellow contact. Even though Icon calls out max at 2.13 max for exposed treads thats way too high for my rig. I ended up with 16 threads exposed on driver and 9 on passenger and both sides are at 22.5. Some rigs can handle more preload with less boot rub..wasn't the case with mine which is why I focused on boot rub and adjusted from there.

From your pics your inner boots look ok, but the outer boot seems a touch deformed.

 

[4runnin4mylife]

Can you measure your down travel (fender to a convenient spot on the hub) and tell us how much travel you have pax and driver (no need to post the fender to hub distances)? Apparently, the correct way is to jack the front and then measure as both are at full droop and not wheel by wheel.

And also your lift size.

On the face of it, one inch between sides sounds too much. I am no expert but the normal amount needed to compensate is 0.4" -0.5" inches of lift so less than that on the shock.

EDIT: also, lift on any one corner affects the diagonally opposed corner. What is your case in the rear?

I'm with MAST4R on checking on this bolded part above! What are your measurements in the rear? Is there possibly a spring not seated correctly on the REAR passenger side making it sit higher, therefore compressing the FRONT driver side more? Which the installer then cranked down on coilover to make up for. Just throwing some ideas out there. Those CV's are at quite the different angle also. I will chime back in if I think of something else.

 

[silverslug]

Thanks so much, guys. I measured the rear and it's very close (within 1/8") to level between Drive and PAX sides. I also called Icon today and they are going to review my input and everything on this thread to try and determine what the cause might be. They are also suggesting that I have my installer back off the threads on both sides by maybe 2 turns, which should lower the entire front end by about 1/4 of an inch. Since the driver side is right at 2 inches now, this would give it a bit more leeway (2 1/8" being the most they suggest). Let's see what Icon says, but I really help everyone's input here and hope to get the issue solved soon. Will definitely share what I learn with everyone for future reference. Cheers, Steve.

 

[WEAK_E90]

Thanks so much, guys. I measured the rear and it's very close (within 1/8") to level between Drive and PAX sides. I also called Icon today and they are going to review my input and everything on this thread to try and determine what the cause might be. They are also suggesting that I have my installer back off the threads on both sides by maybe 2 turns, which should lower the entire front end by about 1/4 of an inch. Since the driver side is right at 2 inches now, this would give it a bit more leeway (2 1/8" being the most they suggest). Let's see what Icon says, but I really help everyone's input here and hope to get the issue solved soon. Will definitely share what I learn with everyone for future reference. Cheers, Steve.

What did your front hub to fender measure out at?

 

[shitty]

Is it possible they gave you two different rated springs? +/- 50lbs?

 

[WEAK_E90]

any updates on this situation from ICON?

 

[silverslug]

Guys; thanks again for everyone's input and assistance on this. I spoke with Icon again today and their techs believe the issue is probably nothing to be too concerned about; after reviewing this thread, the pictures, etc. they believe everything is within normal tolerances. We all know the driver-side lean is an issue with the 4R and Taco, mostly due to the gas tank being on the driver side. I also have sliders, a roof rack and am adding CBI steel skid plates to my rig tomorrow. They suggested several things to keep in mind:

1. Each rig is different; they've seen the ride height adjustments at all kinds of settings on various 5th gen 4Rs.
2. Because of the extra weight I already have on mine, they don't feel that 2” of threads on the driver side vs. only 1 inch on the passenger side is a huge concern -- As several of you initially commented.
3. They suggested that I have my installer take the entire front end of the truck down by ¼” to ⅜”. This should require several turns on the threads on both sides and leave maybe 1.5” to 1.75” of threads exposed on the driver side, which is substantially less than the 2.125” recommended max. It will also add a bit of the rake back to the truck and prevent any rear-end squat when the vehicle is loaded with gear.
4. They stated that getting the truck completely level from side to side probably won't happen - the Toyota driver-side lean will always be an issue and will vary from rig to rig, plus how much weight you add to the vehicle, and even depends upon how full the gas tank is at any given time.

I'm no mechanic or suspension expert, but everything Icon is saying makes logical sense and I am impressed with their responsiveness so far. I did have to call back 3 times to get to this point, but overall the experience has been very positive.

So, back to my installer tomorrow to make more adjustments, redo the alignment a third time and add 200 pounds of steel armor underneath .... I can only imagine what that will change! For reference, here are my center-of-hub to fender measurements, both stock and current:

Front Driver Side - 19.25" stock, 22.5" current (has settled about 1/4" in a week, plus I filled the gas tank)
Front Passenger Side - 19.25" stock, 23" current
Both Rear Sides - 20.5" stock, 23.25" current

I'll update the thread again after tomorrow's adjustments and weight addition.

 

[Dillusion]

Just a thought but maybe its because you went a tad over the 3". I thought going over 3" is when problems started. I'm no suspension expert though.

I went to exactly 3" with my Icons.
Measurements Before Lift (Center of hub to fender)
Both Rear's - 22"
Passenger Front - 19"
Driver Front - 19 3/4"

After
Rear - 24”
Front - 22”

 

[silverslug]

I agree with that [MENTION=267992]Dillusion[/MENTION] - never wanted more than a couple of inches of lift. My whole reason for going with Icon was to get the best performance for the buck, not the most lift possible. In fact, I'm really surprised how much the rear end went up! Will work with my installer to bring the overall height down a bit tomorrow and hopefully be closer to your measurements ;-) Thanks

 

[MAST4R]

I agree with that [MENTION=267992]Dillusion[/MENTION] - never wanted more than a couple of inches of lift. My whole reason for going with Icon was to get the best performance for the buck, not the most lift possible. In fact, I'm really surprised how much the rear end went up! Will work with my installer to bring the overall height down a bit tomorrow and hopefully be closer to your measurements ;-) Thanks

I also like up to 2" lift better. I personally run 1" all around which I think is actually the baseline with proper shocks (and not the stock version of most trims).

I optimize for overall performance on and off road, don't care for looks, and am more concerned with stability in off camber situations and on tilted terrain than with clearing rocks in between the tires.

But tastes and needs vary.

 

[CF_Machete]

[MENTION=355709]silverslug[/MENTION], when you took the truck in for suspension install, was it at half tank? if the tank was full when it was leveled, you'd need more turns due to the increased weight of a full gas tank on the driver side.

also, KDSS?