If the 6th Gen was Built in Mexico…

[Blackwatch]

We are Toyota, not anyone else. We do not change our standards on location, they are global standards.

It is also not an ethical issue as well, Toyota has two plants in Mexico. These plants provide stable jobs during financial crisis, health care, medical facilities, and all in all a higher quality of life. Toyota plants are welcomed around the world due to the jobs, quality of life, and growth they bring. So even though you have some issue with this, please feel free to go to Mexico City, visit our Toyota Plant, and explain to me how it's a bad thing. I also will be working in the Mexico plants as well as a US citizen, so please make sure you're not spreading misinformation about a company that values it's team members & customers first

I don’t see it as misinformation. Car makers don’t go to Mexico to help the locals because of their philanthropic nature. They value their stock value above all else. The average pay is approximately $2.25/ hour in Mexico for an auto worker. Why did Toyota say they would not take part in the 40% rule under the new North American free trade agreement? Auto makers are under a deadline to have 40% + of their parts made in Mexico come from companies that pay a minimum of $16/hour! Some companies have agreed to this and others have said they would rather pay the tariff at the US border. This part of the USMCA was created to deter further manufacturing jobs going to Mexico and to hold companies doing business in Mexico to account when paying crappy wages to Mexican workers. The corporate colonialism that has raped the third world is alive and well. I have been to Mexico many times and spoke to many Mexicans. I know how much a car cost there and that the people assembling these vehicles can’t afford the car they are making.
The closer to home you spend your money the better off our community is. I don’t mind buying a quality product where I know the person who made it was fairly compensated for their time. I have no issues buying a Japanese made vehicle because they are enjoying a good life.
I’ve read many articles on this subject and the Mexicans would be happy making half of what the American worker gets paid. $34/$17- hour.
It’s hard for auto manufacturers to not look predatory when they move assembly to Mexico and don’t lower the price of the car or pay them a decent wage.
It’s interesting that Chinese auto makers are making $1 more an hour than the Mexicans.
Say what you want about trump bit this new agreement will either force auto makers to pay Mexicans more or move jobs back to the US.

 

[Carmaker1]

Well it looks like there is some conflicting information between your and [MENTION=166416]Carmaker1[/MENTION]

Thanks, but anytime Toyota contradict anything I state, you better trust them first LOL. I only can repeat what other Toyota people tell me. It's between them and them what they disagree on.

Anything I state must, be taken with a grain of salt. I was told production will be sourced out of TMMGT, but I did not hear anything about Tahara not producing them anymore.

That's okay, working for Toyota in the new model production engineering division, he can assume all he wants

Hi, I am repeating what I was told by someone else, affiliated with Toyota. If I am wrong, then that's fine. Prior to a few months ago, I was all but convinced, this was MY 2023 in October 2022. They said I was wrong and it was now MY 2024 in early 2024.

For some reason the program got delayed and I was "corrected" to the source plant being TMMGT in Q1 of 2024.

Naturally I want this new 4Runner in the market sooner and retire the N280, but from other GA-F products being MY 2024 and no longer 2023MY, it looks quietly gloomy.

I am not one to pressure those with firsthand insight such as yourself, so thank you for stopping by and giving your own perspective, even if it invalidates my credibility in certain areas. It someone else can do it way better, I welcome it.

I am more focused on a small circle of 4Runner owners, being informed and not so much the whole customer base, where it can hurt Toyota sales.

Recently I PMed a few people, to let them know who to ask these questions and get better answers than I can give.

 

[Annolino122]

Thanks, but anytime Toyota contradict anything I state, you better trust them first LOL. I only can repeat what other Toyota people tell me. It's between them and them what they disagree on.

Anything I state must, be taken with a grain of salt. I was told production will be sourced out of TMMGT, but I did not hear anything about Tahara not producing them anymore.



Hi, I am repeating what I was told by someone else, affiliated with Toyota. If I am wrong, then that's fine. Prior to a few months ago, I was all but convinced, this was MY 2023 in October 2022. They said I was wrong and it was now MY 2024 in early 2024.

For some reason the program got delayed and I was "corrected" to the source plant being TMMGT in Q1 of 2024.

Naturally I want this new 4Runner in the market sooner and retire the N280, but from other GA-F products being MY 2024 and no longer 2023MY, it looks quietly gloomy.

I am not one to pressure those with firsthand insight such as yourself, so thank you for stopping by and giving your own perspective, even if it invalidates my credibility in certain areas. It someone else can do it way better, I welcome it.

I am more focused on a small circle of 4Runner owners, being informed and not so much the whole customer base, where it can hurt Toyota sales.

Recently I PMed a few people, to let them know who to ask these questions and get better answers than I can give.

As I mentioned to you in another couple posts, I appreciate you digging into it all and the excitement! You take a very professional prospective and a wholesome one too. Again thank you for your comments and I appreciate what you're doing

 

[Anthony88]

As I mentioned to you in another couple posts, I appreciate you digging into it all and the excitement! You take a very professional prospective and a wholesome one too. Again thank you for your comments and I appreciate what you're doing

I really don’t want to buy a grand Cherokee or bronco. Any small tips as to when we could see the 6th gen get announced?

 

[Mark4runnar]

I would NEVER buy one --- made in mexico? Not me

 

[Blackwatch]

As a little incite, we have not added or removed any jobs from either plants in Mexico. Our goal is to automate the line due to new technology that cannot be done manually. BU to level up and use the same skilled workers that are there now, without hiring new team members. So both plants have a net 0 increase in line workers, with fully automated lines vs manual lines.

And even though Toyota pays roughly 30-40% more than other automotive companies in Mexico, we can now train line works from doing the labor, and make them skilled members, thus increasing their pay. So to speak on your comment about philanthropy, are again very wrong.

But your whole comment is talking about generalities, not Toyota. We didn't move manufacturing of suppliers to Mexico, because unlike other companies, we supply Canada, Mexico, and all US plants with suppliers in the US. This hasn't changed, the plants in Mexico, even though the capacity/capability have changed, the overall societal impact hasn't changed. Believe it or not, the workers of that NAMC we were about losing their jobs due to automation of a line, because they valued Toyota as an employer.

Just understand you may do all the research you want, but you are not a Toyota employee, and whether or not you think there is kool-aid to be drank, the Toyota way is customers first. And to us, our customers are the plants and line workers.

So please go forth with your assumptions & speculations but understand they are wrong

How much does an assembly worker get paid at a Toyota plant In Mexico?

 

[TexasFunRunner]

How much does an assembly worker get paid at a Toyota plant In Mexico?

Maybe the better question is, how does the wage compare to similar work in the area, is it about average or higher than average?

 

[Blackwatch]

Maybe the better question is, how does the wage compare to similar work in the area, is it about average or higher than average?

Yes, it is relative to a certain degree. But if the average person is living very poorly does that excuse a foreign company from coming in and benefitting by paying a little more than poverty wages?

A Toyota Corolla costs $18,000 usd in Mexico. Parts manufacturers are paying $2-$3/hr. The average auto worker working for a car company makes more, somewhere around $8-$9/hr. Can the auto workers afford the vehicles they are making on these wages?

https://financialpost.com/pmn/business-pmn/in-mexico-2-per-hour-workers-make-40000-suvs

The new free trade agreement seems to be addressing it slowly. It's part to protect US/Can jobs but also to deter companies from exploiting less fortunate countries. Where the Tacoma is being made 100% in Mexico soon it appears Toyota will have to follow the $16/hour rule or pay a 25% tariff at the border.

Toyota Motor, which built a new plant in Mexico in 2015, is not finding it easy to change plans either. The new plant started full-scale production of pickup trucks in February. The trucks are popular in the U.S. and would be subject to a 25% tariff if they do not meet the content requirements of the USMCA. But if Toyota does not operate the factory, it cannot recover its investment.

"We don't want to be whipped around by a policy that we don't know how long it will last," said an executive at a Japanese automaker.

Japan auto companies triple Mexican pay rather than move to US -
Nikkei Asia

It appears Honda will start paying the $16/hr wage but Toyota seems reluctant.

 

[RedZnRunner]

Made in Mexico

If it were made in Mexico, I wouldn't buy it. One of the biggest reasons why I bought the 4Runner over others is where it's made and the build quality.

Ever seen a VW product lately ? That is what comes out of Mexico.

If you want cheap, buy it and be happy.

 

[mscot]

Ever seen a VW product lately ? That is what comes out of Mexico.

I had a 97 Jetta and an 02 Jetta. Both built in Mexico and both went to 100k+ with zero issues. I didn't even have to replace the clutch on the 97. I get that this is anecdotal. But it seems like the design of the car would lead to problems more than the assembly (or perhaps the parts supplies).
Has the Mexico plant gotten worse at quality since then?

 

[Mass 4runner]

If the 6th gen is built anywhere other than Japan, I'll buy another 5th gen. And to those who say location doesn't affect build quality, you're spewing nonsense.

 

[jlficken]

I won’t buy any Toyota product that isn’t made in Japan.

 

[Gstick]

If the 6th gen is built anywhere other than Japan, I'll buy another 5th gen. And to those who say location doesn't affect build quality, you're spewing nonsense.

I agree with this comment 100% !!!

BTW, I also have a 5th Gen Camaro SS. Its a 15' SS/RS 1LE. (if Toyota made the new Supra with a Toyota engine & a manual transmission, I would get rid of the Camaro to buy one)

 

[Mass 4runner]

I agree with this comment 100% !!!

BTW, I also have a 5th Gen Camaro SS. Its a 15' SS/RS 1LE. (if Toyota made the new Supra with a Toyota engine & a manual transmission, I would get rid of the Camaro to buy one)

Nice! Mine is an SS/RS manual and I had the gears changed to 3:91's. If the Supra was manual and had a Toyota engine I would be very tempted, but I really like 5th gens.

 

[RichinRidgewood]

6th gen Speculation Thread | Page 5 | Toyota 4Runner Forum [4Runners.com]


Smells like the New 4Runner will be built in Mexico.

 

[RichinRidgewood]

Quality Issues? We Have Support Available at Toyota Guanajutao!

Jobs Available if you want to work there lol.

Program: 610L(2) | January 2024 – December 2032 (4Runner)

 

[Blackwatch]

Quality Issues? We Have Support Available at Toyota Guanajutao!

Jobs Available if you want to work there lol.

Program: 610L(2) | January 2024 – December 2032 (4Runner)

I posted this on David Chow's (Automotive Press) YouTube channel when he said the 6th gen would be made in Japan... no reply. This seems pretty convincing to me.

 

[Todd308]

I can't speak to Japan, but this has come up a lot with GM with the pickups because some are assembled here in the states and others in Mexico. What I can say is we seem to see better attention to detail and more consistency in the Mexico assembled vehicles than US. It's the little things like how tight the seat material is put on, how clean the wiring is done, how well the bed is aligned with the cab etc. Maybe that's newer equipment, more oversight, etc.

I've always wondered if part of that is also employee satisfaction. For example I looked into it. The median wage in America is about $55k, the average union auto worker makes about $50k (not including benefits, bonus, OT etc. just their median salary x 2080 hours a year). That means the average American putting a vehicle together isn't even making the average wage working 40 hours a week.

However in Mexico, while it seems ridiculously cheap to us, the median wage is only $1600 a year, however the average auto worker at GM is now making about $5000 a year. That's over 3x the median wage, so what i've wondered is if in Mexican assembly plants those workers are much happier and thankful for their jobs because their salaries are so much higher than the average. Meanwhile here in the states the average auto worker is getting paid below the median income and they are probably more likely to be less thankful for their jobs.

It probably doesn't compare to Japan because they have a very strong sense of pride in their work and clearly asian built vehicles/companies sit at the top of the reliability list. Even those that are US build but from Asian owned companies.

 

[ArthurKotb]

I have been retired for a while now, but I worked for Toyota at the Georgetown facility. I visited the assembly plant in Mexico and worked often with the people at that plant. The workers I met in Mexico were as dedicated to quality as any other workers in Georgetown. I would not hesitate to buy a vehicle made in that plant. Those workers are grateful to have a job there and they know there are people waiting in line to get a job. Aside from their pay, Toyota gives them extra benefits, like providing lunch and busing them to/from the plant. Toyota spends a lot of time on quality at every plant.

I have owned a 1991 Camry built in Georgetown, a 1989 Toyota pickup built in Japan, I still own a 1999 Sienna made in Georgetown, a 2004 4Runner built in Japan and a 2012 Corolla built in Mississippi. All of them have been great vehicles and much higher quality than the GM and Chrysler products I owned in the 60s and 70s.

Line workers have no say in the quality of the parts that go into making a vehicle. The Purchasing department does that. They set the defect rate that will be acceptable from the part manufacturer. More defects allowed means lower cost. Toyota puts a lot of pressure on part manufacturers for a low defect rate. Toyota has the best suppliers, coveted by other manufacturers.

Line workers are trained to assemble various parts on multiple vehicles. Their quality of work is checked by every downstream worker and if there are multiple defects coming from any area there will be retraining. Workers are trained to look for and report problems in their assembly process. Example: if a part can be installed in two different ways (one being incorrect), that information will be sent from the line worker back through the purchasing process to the manufacturer to design the part to be installed in only one way.

If you have a quality product from a company, it's because of the company's quality directives to its employees, from design to build to sale. It has nothing to do with the location of the build.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

If the 6th gen is built anywhere other than Japan, I'll buy another 5th gen. And to those who say location doesn't affect build quality, you're spewing nonsense.

I mean, the newer Highlanders have been rather well built and the fit and finish had been impressively consistent from what I've noticed over the years; they're made in North America. The NUMMI plant was cranking out pretty good quality Tacomas and Matrix when it was operational and the Texas facility seemed to do decently with the Tacomas and Tundras for a while. Though I think the moving production to Mexico, COVID and Toyota seemingly rushing the 3rd Gen Tundra out the door no matter what has resulted in poor QC (seriously, the new Tundras make me cringe when I look at them closely with how poor the QC is and how many DPRs it feels like we're making on those issues.)

I'm a little hesitant about production being possibly based out of Mexico rather than Japan... but I'm more concerned that Toyota will repeat the same story with the 3rd Gen Sequioa, 4th gen Tacoma, and 6th gen 4Runner; in that they'll push hard to get them out the door that QC will be abysmal no matter where they're producing them.