If the shoe fits...

[josh.bunch]

Let me start by saying this is still very much an experiment, one I nearly gave up on a few times, but I feel better about it now than I have in a long time.

Here is the deal:

I went with a spacer lift originally, because it was cheap and I didn't know any better. I had never been on a forum of any kind until I stumbled upon this gem, and I didn't know how to search or utilize it fully(I never found the sticky section until months after the lift). I ditched my rear spacers after a few months and went with 891's (still stock Monroe shocks), and that helped(I have since ordered LC Trekmaster shocks to replace the Monroe's. They should be here within the week).

I wanted to ditch the front spacers as well, but can't justify spending $600-1000 on coilovers. That's out if my league for now. That's what led me to where I am now. I was searching for Tundra yy/yb coils with Bilstein struts. Searched salvage yards, ebay, CL, other Toyota forums, all with no luck.

In my ebay search I ran across a set of FJ Cruiser Bilstein take-offs with less than 200 miles on them. I decided if I can get them for less than $75 I would take the risk of them maybe not working, and just flip them on to someone else if that was the case. I won the auction for $52+$14 for shipping. Game on.



Here was my thought process...Ditch the spacers and monroe strut and replace with the stock spring and FJ Bilstein strut. The lift would then not come from the spring(like in coil overs) or the spacers, but from the arm on the bottom of the FJ strut.



Here are my measurement on comparing the two. The Monroe+Daystar spacer gave me 2-1/4 inch lift. I counted the 3/8 weld in the calculation because I did the same on the FJ strut and I wanted to keep things even.




The new FJ with the stock spring gives me a lift of 2-7/8 inches. 1/2 inch more than the original set-up.



All that being set, this is where I sit now...it was a tight fit, but it fits.



I'm still not sure all this will work just because the stut bolts up. I still have to re-attach everything and get it aligned(the alignment is my major concern).

If you are wondering why alot of crap is missing out of the picture of the installed strut, I had to remove the entire spindle to get the UBJ pressed out by my shop. I also ordered parts from O'Rielly to do the Tundra brake upgrade. Oh yea, and my CV is out bc I'm having them both rebuilt(boots torn, high mileage, and a few teeth were chipped).

Let me know what you guys think(yes even if you think I'm an idoit for trying this), I'm still a little skeptical myself because I had to stretch the lower control arm down pretty far to get the lower bolt in, but I think it will get much better once everything is put back together and the weight of the vehicle can settle the coil a bit.

 

[99 sr5 highlander]

Hmm. Very interesting, if it works it would be a good alternative for someone on a budget like myself.

 

[Rc4r]

Looks good, anxious to see how it drives.

 

[fightman80]

I am also interested to see where this goes.... Subscribed!

 

[Toms97]

This is rather interesting.

My only concern is that it might be a bit too much lift for the stock balljoints/UCAs and CVs.

Provided that works out this would make a good option for lifting the front.

Good man for trying this out, I can't wait to see what happens with it.

 

[t4runner604]

hmm..i knew the coils work, dint know struts would line up to. let us know how she rides.

 

[thorridder]

would it matter much on the year?? i found some used but really new (not 200 miles new though) that were a great price but i passed. very interested too because i did the spacers because i didnt know either but was going to do the tundra TRD.

did you use to stock 4runner coil in it?

 

[steezemcqueen]

I hate to be the negative one. But that shock is way to long. Once you bolt up the spindle. the ball joints will now be your bump stop. Thats going to cause them to bind and probably break.

I would love for you to prove me wrong but this setup just looks kinda scary. IMHO, saving some money is not worth the risk is breaking ball joints and creating a hazard for both you and other drivers on the road.

 

[josh.bunch]

This is rather interesting.

My only concern is that it might be a bit too much lift for the stock balljoints/UCAs and CVs.

Provided that works out this would make a good option for lifting the front.

Good man for trying this out, I can't wait to see what happens with it.

That is my major concern as well. I'll have new LBJ, UBJ, and CV when this goes together. I have always heard 3 inches is the maximum lift for the front end and if I remember correctly I think toytec's coilovers can be adjusted to give you a maximum of 3 inch lift(although most don't adjust them that high).

I think it is going to be this weekend at the earliest before I get both sides buttoned up, bc I'll need to change passengers side CV and UBJ as well as remove and break down the old assembly and reman the new one. Oh yea, did I mention I'm doing the tundra brake upgrade at the same time. I'm going to try to work a little each day with the hopes of getting an alignment Saturday afternoon. There is rain in the forecast for the next 6 days, so that could easily throw a wrench into this whole thing.

 

[josh.bunch]

I hate to be the negative one. But that shock is way to long. Once you bolt up the spindle. the ball joints will now be your bump stop. Thats going to cause them to bind and probably break.

I would love for you to prove me wrong but this setup just looks kinda scary. IMHO, saving some money is not worth the risk is breaking ball joints and creating a hazard for both you and other drivers on the road.

I welcome negative thoughts. It helps me trouble shoot. One thing I left out in my description earlier is that I went a visited with Jacque at TRDParts4u and we did some brain a storming. We took some measurements from some OME Nitrocharger struts used with OME springs to lift these rods, and measurements from Tundra struts. Both had similar extended and collapsable lengths. Once I get everything buttoned up and aligned I will take all kinds of flexed out photos to post and let some of you more experienced folks take a look and give your opinions. Thanks for the feedback.

 

[steezemcqueen]

I welcome negative thoughts. It helps me trouble shoot. One thing I left out in my description earlier is that I went a visited with Jacque at TRDParts4u and we did some brain a storming. We took some measurements from some OME Nitrocharger struts used with OME springs to lift these rods, and measurements from Tundra struts. Both had similar extended and collapsable lengths. Once I get everything buttoned up and aligned I will take all kinds of flexed out photos to post and let some of you more experienced folks take a look and give your opinions. Thanks for the feedback.

There is no way these shocks can be similar to a OME 90004 shock. The extended length difference between a OME 90000(FJ front shock) and a OME 90004 (3rd gen front shock) is 2.75 inches! That translates to 5.5 inches additional wheel droop! That is going to make the the ball joints and CV's bind, spindles hit the springs, and who knows what else.

Here is a snippet from Bilsteins 5100 info pdf about why top mount spacers are bad. This is essentially the same thing you have done with installing a longer shock.

Coilover shocks are the factory down travel limiter on the majority of applications. This means that the OEM shock will stop the downward motion of the suspension before component damage occurs. Parts that may be damaged from over-extension include ball joints, CV joints, driveline or swaybar components. Most of these suspension designs allow a little leeway for a longer shock, typically about 1/2” to 3/4”. By installing a strut extension spacer, you will be increasing the overall length of the coilover assembly by 1” to 2”. This will far exceed the limits of the suspension down-travel and increase the likelihood of component damage.

Bilstein 5100 Series Leveling Shocks are 1/2” to 3/4” longer, depending on application, than the O.E. shocks they replace. Yet, they are designed to prevent over-extension of the suspension travel and possible component damage.

All 5100 Leveling Shocks are designed to optimize available suspension travel.
On strut extension kit applications, the most common issue you may notice is a loud “popping” or “banging” noise from the front end as the shock completely tops out. The noise is caused from either the ball joint binding or the upper A-arm contacting the coil spring. This is most noticeable when the vehicle encounters sharp suspension inputs such as a speed bump.

I applaud you for trying something different but i will strongly urge you to reconsider using these shocks.

 

[quicksilvr]

Oh yea, and my CV is out bc I'm having them both rebuilt(boots torn, high mileage, and a few teeth were chipped)

The majority of the reason for your CV's being torn up is that you were using a big spacer lift in the first place.

I'm sure you understand this, but the biggest concept that people miss when thinking about the front suspension of our 4Runners is that top-out spacer is essentially a longer strut. And longer struts are bad because they push the LCA down farther than it can safely and effectively go with the stock style CV.

The only correct way to lift the front of an IFS 4Runner is with a coilover that lets you adjust the spring perch. The overall length of the strut does not change, the spring is simply compressed more, stiffening the spring and not allowing it to sag as much with the weight of the vehicle. That's why progressive coils are so important as well.




EDIT: somehow I was 15 minute ninja'd by steeze. Oh well. Don't know how that happened. lol

 

[russ_]

The really important thing to remember when dealing with the front end on these rigs is that any change you make at the strut will be roughly doubled at the wheel. That's why a 1/2" thick top spacer gives you 1" of lift. So if your new strut is 1" longer than your spacer lift, it will give you 2" more lift. I really think you will be looking at 4+ inches of lift with these struts and immediate front end component damage.

 

[josh.bunch]

The really important thing to remember when dealing with the front end on these rigs is that any change you make at the strut will be roughly doubled at the wheel. That's why a 1/2" thick top spacer gives you 1" of lift. So if your new strut is 1" longer than your spacer lift, it will give you 2" more lift. I really think you will be looking at 4+ inches of lift with these struts and immediate front end component damage.

Not following the logic here. Not saying your wrong but not sure how a 1/2 inch top plate will give you 1 inch lift.

 

[gannonrt]

Could you put a limit strap in to limit the droop. I believe BigFishAllDay has one on his Sonoran Steel setup.....

 

[josh.bunch]

The majority of the reason for your CV's being torn up is that you were using a big spacer lift in the first place.

I'm sure you understand this, but the biggest concept that people miss when thinking about the front suspension of our 4Runners is that top-out spacer is essentially a longer strut. And longer struts are bad because they push the LCA down farther than it can safely and effectively go with the stock style CV.

The only correct way to lift the front of an IFS 4Runner is with a coilover that lets you adjust the spring perch. The overall length of the strut does not change, the spring is simply compressed more, stiffening the spring and not allowing it to sag as much with the weight of the vehicle. That's why progressive coils are so important as well.




EDIT: somehow I was 15 minute ninja'd by steeze. Oh well. Don't know how that happened. lol

Aren't the stock coils progressive?

I do understand that a major reason for the torn CV boot is the lift. Still not able to understand how a 2.5 inch spacer lift puts more stress on front end components than a coil over that is topped out to give you 3 inches of lift. Not saying your wrong, just doesn't make sense to me.

Also if the coilover is compressing the spring, not allowing it to sag, therefore doesn't that provide a much harsher ride? Or is that what a progressive coil is designed to help with. My thinking was if I can upgrade the strut, keep a stock spring, and get a lift that would be the best of all worlds.

As I type this out what you guys are saying is making more sense to me. I'm still going to try it. I get a 90 day warranty on my new CV so if the boot tears I'm covered. I'll keep it of the highway until I feel comfortable with the set-up. This rig only gets driven weekends anyway so it doesn't get driven much anyways.

Again, thanks for the insight. I feel like I'm learning here.

 

[Scat Adams]

CHIP NO!!!!!


It was too late!

 

[josh.bunch]

There is no way these shocks can be similar to a OME 90004 shock. The extended length difference between a OME 90000(FJ front shock) and a OME 90004 (3rd gen front shock) is 2.75 inches! That translates to 5.5 inches additional wheel droop! That is going to make the the ball joints and CV's bind, spindles hit the springs, and who knows what else.

I wasn't saying we compared the OME 4runner struts and OME FJ struts. We compared the OME 4runner strut to this factory Toyota Bilstein strut. The OME 90000 is designed to lift the FJ. The strut I'm using is designed for FJ stock height which is similar to a 3rd gen lifted 4runner(I've parked near my neighbors a number of times to compare).
I realize there is much much more that goes into it besides "they look like they are the same height." Control arm spacing and angles are a major consideration too.

Again, I'm not sure it's going to work, and I'm certainly not going to be reckless while testing it. I'm not an 18 year old testosterone raging lunatic. If anything I too often error on the side of caution. I guess I can afford to "play" with this thing, and experiment with it since I do not rely on it for transportation.

 

[IanB]

I wasn't saying we compared the OME 4runner struts and OME FJ struts. We compared the OME 4runner strut to this factory Toyota Bilstein strut. The OME 90000 is designed to lift the FJ. The strut I'm using is designed for FJ stock height which is similar to a 3rd gen lifted 4runner(I've parked near my neighbors a number of times to compare).
I realize there is much much more that goes into it besides "they look like they are the same height." Control arm spacing and angles are a major consideration too.

Again, I'm not sure it's going to work, and I'm certainly not going to be reckless while testing it. I'm not an 18 year old testosterone raging lunatic. If anything I too often error on the side of caution. I guess I can afford to "play" with this thing, and experiment with it since I do not rely on it for transportation.

I hear what you're saying here, the stock FJ strut and a lifted 3rd gen strut are apples to apples basically, but the fact remains that you have removed a spacer lift, and replaced it with...a spacer lift that's built into the strut.

The top spacer has some sort of a leverage effect, so the lift you get is roughly 2x the height of the spacer you add. I don't have my head completely around this yet either, but that's how it works. The principle is the same for the longer strut you're going to use.

I'm very interested to see how this works out for you though, props for trying something new, just be careful.

 

[sn0wrunner]

Ooooooooo... Doesn't look like the shoe fits.

That coil over is quite a bit longer. It is going to give way too much down travel. I'm going to be surprised if you can get the spindle back on.