If the shoe fits...

[steezemcqueen]

Aren't the stock coils progressive?

I do understand that a major reason for the torn CV boot is the lift. Still not able to understand how a 2.5 inch spacer lift puts more stress on front end components than a coil over that is topped out to give you 3 inches of lift. Not saying your wrong, just doesn't make sense to me.

Also if the coilover is compressing the spring, not allowing it to sag, therefore doesn't that provide a much harsher ride? Or is that what a progressive coil is designed to help with. My thinking was if I can upgrade the strut, keep a stock spring, and get a lift that would be the best of all worlds.

As I type this out what you guys are saying is making more sense to me. I'm still going to try it. I get a 90 day warranty on my new CV so if the boot tears I'm covered. I'll keep it of the highway until I feel comfortable with the set-up. This rig only gets driven weekends anyway so it doesn't get driven much anyways.

Again, thanks for the insight. I feel like I'm learning here.

Lift and Travel are two very different things. Coilovers, springs, preload spacers, 5100's provide lift but do NOT increase the travel because the extended length is the same. Longer shocks and top mount spacers extend the length of the shock. Since your extended length is now longer, your limit is now that much longer because the shock is what limits the suspension travel.

I wasn't saying we compared the OME 4runner struts and OME FJ struts. We compared the OME 4runner strut to this factory Toyota Bilstein strut. The OME 90000 is designed to lift the FJ. The strut I'm using is designed for FJ stock height which is similar to a 3rd gen lifted 4runner(I've parked near my neighbors a number of times to compare).
I realize there is much much more that goes into it besides "they look like they are the same height." Control arm spacing and angles are a major consideration too.

Again, I'm not sure it's going to work, and I'm certainly not going to be reckless while testing it. I'm not an 18 year old testosterone raging lunatic. If anything I too often error on the side of caution. I guess I can afford to "play" with this thing, and experiment with it since I do not rely on it for transportation.

The OME-90004 CANNOT be the same as the stock FJ shock. The 90004 is only 1/2 inch longer than the stock 3rd gen shock because any more than that, it will have issues with the ball joints binding.

I will go take some pictures comparing the shocks if you would like

 

[BrianSD_42]

This is turning into a pretty good - what not to do - thread.

 

[revenantdead]

i really do want to see if this works. sub'd

 

[josh.bunch]

Ooooooooo... Doesn't look like the shoe fits.

That coil over is quite a bit longer. It is going to give way too much down travel. I'm going to be surprised if you can get the spindle back on.

I didn't say it fits comfortably, I said it fits. To be honest it is kind of feels like when Cinderella's step sisters tried on the glass slippers and they fit momentarily but them popped of.

I hope you're wrong but I share a similar thought on the spindle. I worked 16 hours yesterday so needless to say I got nothing accomplished on the suspension.

 

[BrianSD_42]

Now that Steve M. has warned you that it will cause premature LBJ failure, just know that you are legally responsible for any death or destruction that occurs if an LBJ goes out while driving.

If an LBJ fails and you hit someone, this thread shows you were thoroughly warned it would likely fail.

:bash:

*** edit: might have overspoke here, sorry if it sounded condescending.

 

[josh.bunch]

Now that Steve M. has warned you that it will cause premature LBJ failure, just know that you are legally responsible for any death or destruction that occurs if an LBJ goes out while driving.

If an LBJ fails and you hit someone, this thread shows you were thoroughly warned it would likely fail.

:bash:

Geeze man. I don't know if it's just me, but almost every thead I see you post on you come off extremely abrasive and condescending. I'm sure you're a nice guy and all, but you sure come off as a know out all quite often.

I am a responsible adult. I have a family. My family needs me. I'm not going to do anything that will put myself, them, or anyone else for that matter at risk.

Steeze, I really appreciate all the advice, help, and technical info. You have also done a really good job of explaining what it a pretty difficult concept to understand(coilover vs. top plate vs. travel & how that plays into the geometry of an ISF). Even if this experiment fails, I feel like it has been worth it to gain the knowledge you shared. Thanks bud.

 

[tbst]

I support you trying it out. Only an idiot would go out on the freeway at 75 and test it out. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. Trying it in a cul-de-sac isn't going to hurt anyone. Rock on.

 

[tbst]

Now that Steve M. has warned you that it will cause premature LBJ failure, just know that you are legally responsible for any death or destruction that occurs if an LBJ goes out while driving.

If an LBJ fails and you hit someone, this thread shows you were thoroughly warned it would likely fail.

:bash:

Laughable at best. Just because some random person on the internet warned you something is a bad idea doesn't mean your legal liability has increased.

You are always liable for death and destruction when driving your vehicle. Doesn't matter what you have or have not done to it. Albeit, some mods may cause you legal troubles, not doing simple maintenance will do the same thing. The same argument could be made.

If you hit someone with your aftermarket ARB bumper that isn't rated for your vehicle, you are liable now because I have just warned you of the inherent issues with having a bumper on your vehicle that isn't rated for your vehicle.

My point is that no one needs to be lectured.

 

[offthebeatenpath]

Lift and Travel are two very different things. Coilovers, springs, preload spacers, 5100's provide lift but do NOT increase the travel because the extended length is the same. Longer shocks and top mount spacers extend the length of the shock. Since your extended length is now longer, your limit is now that much longer because the shock is what limits the suspension travel.



The OME-90004 CANNOT be the same as the stock FJ shock. The 90004 is only 1/2 inch longer than the stock 3rd gen shock because any more than that, it will have issues with the ball joints binding.

I will go take some pictures comparing the shocks if you would like

This is the best explanation of this that I've read.
Personally, I think photos would be super helpful. If not now, they will be for the future readers of this thread.

 

[RunninInGA]

Laughable at best. Just because some random person on the internet warned you something is a bad idea doesn't mean your legal liability has increased.

You are always liable for death and destruction when driving your vehicle. Doesn't matter what you have or have not done to it. Albeit, some mods may cause you legal troubles, not doing simple maintenance will do the same thing. The same argument could be made.

If you hit someone with your aftermarket ARB bumper that isn't rated for your vehicle, you are liable now because I have just warned you of the inherent issues with having a bumper on your vehicle that isn't rated for your vehicle.

My point is that no one needs to be lectured.

Spot on.

I predict a back-peddle in 3....2......1. Then a comment to steer the conversation "back on topic."

 

[BrianSD_42]

Sorry guys. I will try to sound like less of a ****. Like Fightman and others have pointed out, this forum is pretty friendly, far far more so than the rest of the internet. Its members often have pretty thin skin. I am actually pretty sarcastic but I doubt it reads well to strangers, especially on a flat medium like the web.


I don't know it all, far from it. Plenty of other members have all told you why you are are wrong. If you disagree and think you are right then debate it. I'll shut up and listen on the side lines.

That said, you knew you were going to catch a lot of flack when you started this thread. Steve has pointed out that it could cause (reads more like will cause) and LBJ failure which are very dangerous for the public and other drivers.

LBJ failures can be pretty brutal, like cars flying off the road at 40+ into trees or people type of brutal. That was my driving thought.

Josh I wish you good luck with the experiment. mainly I hope you didn't waste your money and don't stay pissed at me for too long & that nothing breaks.

 

[steezemcqueen]

Steeze, I really appreciate all the advice, help, and technical info. You have also done a really good job of explaining what it a pretty difficult concept to understand(coilover vs. top plate vs. travel & how that plays into the geometry of an ISF). Even if this experiment fails, I feel like it has been worth it to gain the knowledge you shared. Thanks bud.

Always glad to help. Like I said before, I applaud the effort to try something new. If we all went by the normal applications, no one would be running LC coils, Tundra coils, Tundra brakes, etc etc.

This is the best explanation of this that I've read.
Personally, I think photos would be super helpful. If not now, they will be for the future readers of this thread.

I will post up some comparison photos tomorrow. I don't know if i have any OEM 4runner shock lyings around but i definitely have a few OEM FJ shocks that i can compare to Old Man Emu stuff.

Sorry guys. I will try to sound like less of a ****. Like Fightman and others have pointed out, this forum is pretty friendly, far far more so than the rest of the internet. Its members often have pretty thin skin. I am actually pretty sarcastic but I doubt it reads well to strangers, especially on a flat medium like the web.


I don't know it all, far from it. Plenty of other members have all told you why you are are wrong. If you disagree and think you are right then debate it. I'll shut up and listen on the side lines.

That said, you knew you were going to catch a lot of flack when you started this thread. Steve has pointed out that it could cause (reads more like will cause) and LBJ failure which are very dangerous for the public and other drivers.

LBJ failures can be pretty brutal, like cars flying off the road at 40+ into trees or people type of brutal. That was my driving thought.

Josh I wish you good luck with the experiment. mainly I hope you didn't waste your money and don't stay pissed at me for too long & that nothing breaks.

I do agree with you except for one thing. My name is Dylan :lol:

 

[steezemcqueen]

Also, I urge everyone to read this article by Bilstein. It explains alot about how the IFS setup on our trucks work and why most spacer setups are less than ideal.


http://www.bilsteinus.com/fileadmin/user_upload/user_upload_us/pdfs/Bil_LevShks_WebArticle.pdf

 

[PitbullRescuer]

hmm..i knew the coils work, dint know struts would line up to. let us know how she rides.

The coils don't work. You're confusing the FJ Cruiser with the FJ80 Landcruiser springs people use. The front springs from the FJ Landcruisers can be used to lift the rear of 3rd Gen 4Runners.

 

[B.I.BUILTRUNNER]

im using a similar setup on my runner. I got a deal on some 06 4runner strut assy from a friend and decided to try it out. It works for me!

 

[Baja Runner]

Good article on the Bilstein shocks.

Interesting to note that those shocks are the combination of both a spacer and strut extension, just a small lift input from both methods.

 

[josh.bunch]

Sorry guys. I will try to sound like less of a ****. Like Fightman and others have pointed out, this forum is pretty friendly, far far more so than the rest of the internet. Its members often have pretty thin skin. I am actually pretty sarcastic but I doubt it reads well to strangers, especially on a flat medium like the web.


I don't know it all, far from it. Plenty of other members have all told you why you are are wrong. If you disagree and think you are right then debate it. I'll shut up and listen on the side lines.

That said, you knew you were going to catch a lot of flack when you started this thread. Steve has pointed out that it could cause (reads more like will cause) and LBJ failure which are very dangerous for the public and other drivers.

LBJ failures can be pretty brutal, like cars flying off the road at 40+ into trees or people type of brutal. That was my driving thought.

Josh I wish you good luck with the experiment. mainly I hope you didn't waste your money and don't stay pissed at me for too long & that nothing breaks.

Not pissed in the least. I work in the commercial construction industry and have general contractors yelling at me often. I have rhino skin. All I was saying is that both you and Dylan were making the same point essential, but in completely different ways. I said in my 1st post I welcomed critisim, not so much insults. At this point it is water under the bridge.


Back on topic...

The more I get into this the more I think it will not work. The LCA is at a much more severe angle than the other side. It is about 3 inches lower on the FJ Bilstein side than the stock side.






If the drivers side spindle doesn't go on with relative ease I am going to scrap the experiment. $52 struts are not worth destroying $800-1000 of other components.

I have another suspension related question for some of you other guys running coilovers as opposed to top plate spacers. Do top plate spacers in combination with coil spacers put more, less, or an equal amount of stress on related suspension components. Am I more of less likely to tear CV boots with space lift vs. coilovers? Going with a bigger tire (33) will not add or reduce stress to the suspension components? Basically I would like to better understand how adjusting different suspension components affects the others. It seems like a domino effect essentially.

 

[Gerdo]

The stock 4runner shocks will allow as much droop as the CV will allow. More than that and the CVs will bind and also pull apart. Top out spacers also extend the length of the shock, allowing more droop, also not good.

If the FJC shocks are longer, then they too will allow excessive droop, causing CV damage.

Not following the logic here. Not saying your wrong but not sure how a 1/2 inch top plate will give you 1 inch lift.

This is some info that i had posted on spacers.
The actual spacer thickness is 1/4" (.25"). The Lower control arm is ~14" long (pivot/alignment bolts to the ball joint CL). The shock is inboard by ~6" or 43%. A 1/4" spacer yields .3575 (or 23/64", just shy of 3/8" or .375)

A 3/8" top out spacer will yield .53625, or ~17/32" (just over 1/2 inch)

***Note: Top out spacers will allow the suspension to droop beyond the manufacturers designed length. This excessive droop may cause the CVs to exceed their designed travel causing bind, breakage and pulling apart from over extension.***

 

[josh.bunch]

Sounds like what you are saying it's the top out spacer causes more damage than coilovers. Probably similar to the damage caused by a coilover or even stock set-up with sway bars disconnected at full droop. Essentially when the down travel is greater than than factory specs it can cause the CV to bind among other issues. Whether this is caused by top plate spacers or disconnected sway bars at full droop the result is basically the same?

 

[Baja Runner]

Top out spacers == Longer shock (Like the FJC shock).

The sway bars being disconnected wont cause any extra damage. The limiting entity is the shock in our trucks. That is why it is important to have the correct length shock.