If you had to drive another SUV instead of the 4Runner....

[mesooohoppy]

id advise against leasing. for most people, your car(s) are the second largest investment you will ever make that involves an actual item/entity (an example of a 'non item' would be your kids college tuition, sorry cant think of a better term to call it right now). you pay a lot into a lease to literally receive nothing in the end (all you got was something that temporarily got you from point a to point b). nevermind all the other stressful crap that comes along with a lease (do you want to track your mileage to ensure you dont go over?)

im no economics major, but im smart enough to know to never buy into a lease. cars are cheap enough now a days that you can generally get you something you'd be happy with at your budget until you are ready to sell. if the OP can waste enough money on gas because he/she likes having an SUV just to get groceries and haul kids, they can afford to buy a car.

 

[amheck]

Was only considering leasing because I didn't want the hassle of selling in a couple years or having to deal with getting ripped off in a trade in when I go to purchase my next 4Runner in a year or two or three.

But yeah, maybe buy something a year old with a few K miles and then try to sell it in a couple years and maybe it won't be too bad.

 

[Bumbo]

id advise against leasing. for most people, your car(s) are the second largest investment you will ever make that involves an actual item/entity (an example of a 'non item' would be your kids college tuition, sorry cant think of a better term to call it right now). you pay a lot into a lease to literally receive nothing in the end (all you got was something that temporarily got you from point a to point b). nevermind all the other stressful crap that comes along with a lease (do you want to track your mileage to ensure you dont go over?)

im no economics major, but im smart enough to know to never buy into a lease. cars are cheap enough now a days that you can generally get you something you'd be happy with at your budget until you are ready to sell. if the OP can waste enough money on gas because he/she likes having an SUV just to get groceries and haul kids, they can afford to buy a car.

I have never once in my life called or considered a car an investment.

Investments appreciate, and most all cars deprecate, some less than others. Yes, there are some that don't, but things like that are generally out of my league $$$$.

Trucks on the other hand I could consider an investment, but its really more of a tool, but only in the function of serving a business to generate revenue.

I pretty much agree with all your comments about leasing unless you are a 1099 or a business owner. Lots of advantages for leasing if you are.

When I was an independent consultant on 1099, I leased a car for the first time. I can write off the full lease payment against my taxable income. The lease was for a cheap modest car, $200/month, so instead of paying myself $140 after taxes, I get a 30% discount on my car using pre-tax dollars. The math at the time worked out in favor of a lease over purchasing.

These days, I have found buying a slightly used new car provides the best value as most of the initial depreciation was paid by someone else. In the case of the 4Runner, buying new is great, especially if you plan on holding onto it for many years. Out of everything I have had the pleasure of owning, the 4Runner is probably one of the best and most versatile I have ever owned, which is why I have 2.

 

[mesooohoppy]

I have never once in my life called or considered a car an investment.

Investments appreciate, and most all cars deprecate, some less than others. Yes, there are some that don't, but things like that are generally out of my league $$$$.

Trucks on the other hand I could consider an investment, but its really more of a tool, but only in the function of serving a business to generate revenue.

I pretty much agree with all your comments about leasing unless you are a 1099 or a business owner. Lots of advantages for leasing if you are.

When I was an independent consultant on 1099, I leased a car for the first time. I can write off the full lease payment against my taxable income. The lease was for a cheap modest car, $200/month, so instead of paying myself $140 after taxes, I get a 30% discount on my car using pre-tax dollars. The math at the time worked out in favor of a lease over purchasing.

These days, I have found buying a slightly used new car provides the best value as most of the initial depreciation was paid by someone else. In the case of the 4Runner, buying new is great, especially if you plan on holding onto it for many years. Out of everything I have had the pleasure of owning, the 4Runner is probably one of the best and most versatile I have ever owned, which is why I have 2.

well i do. investments can result in a gain or loss. if a wealthy businessman looses $$ on an investment, its a bad investment. but still an investment. i searched earlier and most places refer to it as an asset, under the assumption that your car will always loose money (not true 100% of the time, but most of the time). i still consider every vehicle ive ever owned an investment.

i dont utilize a 1099 and most people who have a regular 9-5 dont either. so good for you, but all of my arguments are for people who dont use a 1099.

lets do some simple math, using this article:
5 Mistakes To Avoid When Leasing A Car | Bankrate.com
(first link on google after i searched)

according to edmonds, the average lease is $466 a month (as of 4/19, also worth noting the average car payment is $554; thats not a big jump), and the average lease is 3 years.

3*12= 36 months in 3 years.
36 * 466 = $16,776 (not including any taxes, fees, overages, maintenance, or any money you put down).

this is why i say leases are a waste of money. yes you had a car to get you to point A to point B for the last 36 months, but now its time to give up your car and you dont have another that you physically own. you have now spent 16.7k over the last 3 years, and now you dont have anything.

so, 466/mo seems really high. lets halve that (half is 233)
233 * 36 = $8388.

8.3k is still a lot for you to pay into to not actually own it. one final thing, if those numbers quoted by edmonds are accurate, $466 is 84.1% of $554; resulting in a 15.9% difference between a lease payment and a loan payment. again, not a lot.

edit:
that being said, i completely agree with your last paragraph. i will never buy a new car for the reasons you listed. i let someone else take the hit on depreciation. i can do all my own maint work, so it works out pretty well for me in the end.

 

[thennen]

well i do. investments can result in a gain or loss. if a wealthy businessman looses $$ on an investment, its a bad investment. but still an investment. i searched earlier and most places refer to it as an asset, under the assumption that your car will always loose money (not true 100% of the time, but most of the time). i still consider every vehicle ive ever owned an investment.

i dont utilize a 1099 and most people who have a regular 9-5 dont either. so good for you, but all of my arguments are for people who dont use a 1099.

lets do some simple math, using this article:
5 Mistakes To Avoid When Leasing A Car | Bankrate.com
(first link on google after i searched)

according to edmonds, the average lease is $466 a month (as of 4/19, also worth noting the average car payment is $554; thats not a big jump), and the average lease is 3 years.

3*12= 36 months in 3 years.
36 * 466 = $16,776 (not including any taxes, fees, overages, maintenance, or any money you put down).

this is why i say leases are a waste of money. yes you had a car to get you to point A to point B for the last 36 months, but now its time to give up your car and you dont have another that you physically own. you have now spent 16.7k over the last 3 years, and now you dont have anything.

so, 466/mo seems really high. lets halve that (half is 233)
233 * 36 = $8388.

8.3k is still a lot for you to pay into to not actually own it. one final thing, if those numbers quoted by edmonds are accurate, $466 is 84.1% of $554; resulting in a 15.9% difference between a lease payment and a loan payment. again, not a lot.

edit:
that being said, i completely agree with your last paragraph. i will never buy a new car for the reasons you listed. i let someone else take the hit on depreciation. i can do all my own maint work, so it works out pretty well for me in the end.

Sometimes I think we try to compare a car to a financial investment. But a car is more than that. A financial investment’s success is measured only in dollars returned or dollars lost. A car, on the other hand, returns more than the money spent, at least for the majority of us. It enables us to make/earn money in the first place. It also can contribute to quality of life. Additionally, it can cost us more depending on reliability, our poor vehicle selection, etc. So asset or liability may be better words to use to describe a vehicle. My two cents.

 

[Bumbo]

[MENTION=402644]mesooohoppy[/MENTION]

I could say this is a case of semantics, but it’s not, it’s a tool, and there is a difference.

With this logic, water, toothbrush/toothpaste can be considered an investment, but it’s not, it’s a tool and a consumable. Something you need to live, something to keep healthy. Fact of the matter is they depreciate with use.

Cars are not investments. They depreciate, period. 20k vs 100k, both take you from A to B. Both depreciate but at different rates. It’s a tool, and a consumable.

Investments are opportunities were you look for appreciation… you make a calculated risk to see if I want to peruse that opportunity.

If we contrast cars to stocks, cars are constantly depreciating. Stocks on the other hand are moving up and down, and even when it’s down the losses are unrealized. Point being, don’t sell and realize the losses. You can’t do that with a car or truck.

When you invest you can use time as a metric for growth, and you can reliably see a gain. Look at any index fund over 10 years, 20 years and tell me what you see. If you do it right, you will see appreciation. Investing is a long term strategy.

I’ve purchased camera lenses as an investment and made good money over the course of time. The camera itself is a tool, just like a car, a consumable because over time it ages and depreciates, but the lenses, those my friend are investments.

Either way, I enjoy cars, but approach them as a cost center in my life. Researching "total cost of ownership" is a good way to understand why they are in fact not investments.

 

[mybabydaddy]

Sometimes I think we try to compare a car to a financial investment. But a car is more than that. A financial investment’s success is measured only in dollars returned or dollars lost. A car, on the other hand, returns more than the money spent, at least for the majority of us. It enables us to make/earn money in the first place. It also can contribute to quality of life. Additionally, it can cost us more depending on reliability, our poor vehicle selection, etc. So asset or liability may be better words to use to describe a vehicle. My two cents.

Lest we forget the “emotional” part of the ownership as well. That is HUGE among P-car owners.... the “joy” you get out of driving your car. I imagine it’s much the same for 4Runner owners with its capabilities to do activities that bring said owners “joy”.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Bumbo]

Lest we forget the “emotional” part of the ownership as well. That is HUGE among P-car owners.... the “joy” you get out of driving your car. I imagine it’s much the same for 4Runner owners with its capabilities to do activities that bring said owners “joy”.

Sometimes I think we try to compare a car to a financial investment. But a car is more than that. A financial investment’s success is measured only in dollars returned or dollars lost. A car, on the other hand, returns more than the money spent, at least for the majority of us. It enables us to make/earn money in the first place. It also can contribute to quality of life. Additionally, it can cost us more depending on reliability, our poor vehicle selection, etc. So asset or liability may be better words to use to describe a vehicle. My two cents.

I can agree with that... asset liability.

I have 3 personal cars. I have them for different things. My 4Runner isn't a daily driver... it's my toy, it sits in the garage waiting for downtime so I can off-road. It's a 100% non-essential asset liability, but I love it.

It's the only vehical I own that I have an attachment to because of it's family history and where it has taken me. There is a tremendous amount of satisfaction I gain from owning it, I work on it myself. Many hours went into making it what it is today.

I also need one for work, but I view it in a completely different light. It provide utility and is an essential item, but does not need to provide any luxury to satisfy that goal.

I could downsize and simply if needed... if I wasn't able to save and invest for retirement, I would certainly change my ways to accommodate that as a priority. Money can't buy happiness but poverty can't buy anything. Save & "invest" in something other than cars.

 

[baldrik78]

I'd get an LC80, because I really just like how they look. I might keep the 4R and do that anyway

 

[tcbaklash]

'78/'79 Ford Bronco, Jeep CJ7 Scrambler, Jeep LJ, Volkswagen Touareg V10 TDI or squarebody Suburban

If I have to choose new probably nothing unless money isn't a factor, and in that case I choose that Cadillac Escalade coming out with the supercharged LT4.

Most new SUVs are just lifted wagons. Unibody and fully independent suspension doesn't interest me unless it's supposed to go really fast or it's just ridiculous like the Touareg TDI lol.

 

[Jemplyr77]

Lexus GX of course.

This

 

[Jemplyr77]

Get the new Honda Passport. It is just a shortened Pilot but looks better. Very fast with the 6 cylinder and better looking than the Pilot. Will be costly but resale value after 1.5 years will be excellent.

Wife got one of these with the Elite package several months ago. She loves it!

 

[Toffees]

Hi group.

2004 4Runner Limited owner here. I've been waiting for the last couple of years hoping the 4Runner gets updated before purchasing a new truck. Well, the 2020 year seem to hit most of my wants (push start, stereo upgrade, safety stuff) but then I started to think, I might like to drive something else for a couple years before jumping into another 4Runner for another 10-15 years.

Just curious what you all would consider driving if you had to chose something other than your Toyota?

I do want an SUV, but truth be told, I don't do any offroading at all. Its mainly a kid and grocery and home depot hauler, but I like the ruggedness of it.

Was thinking about maybe leasing something I'd never buy, but everytime I look at the lease prices, they are way up there. Like the Cayenne/Discovery/Audi Q7, etc. I'd like to stay in the low 400's if possible with little to no money out of pocket.

Anyone know anything about the VW Atlas? I always like the German cars, too.

Was considering the leasing just so I could easily get out of it after 3 years and then jump right into a new or slightly used 4Runner again.

I would look at a used LC myself. The Audi looks fun to drive (as well as the Porsche offerings). The Volvos are said to have the best interiors. The Highlander and Pilot are good, no - nonsense SUVs that will give you less headache than the rest.

But if not a used LC, I'm staying in the 4R.

 

[thennen]

Well this thread is just plain timely.... I’ve been gone for just over a year, but I check in on here from time to time for general updates and whatnot. Saw this thread and found it intriguing.

For those on the forum that don’t know me, I had three different 4Runners. The last one a 2014 TE w/ KDSS... 5100 lift, FN Wheels, RCI skid, TG2s. It was a really well-balanced daily driver (not too mention a good-looking, not over the top lifted Runner). Finally, one day after being on vacation last year and driving a brand new Explorer Sport with a Turbo charged engine, I decided I’d had enough... and wanted my money to go to something more street oriented, more tech, and more sporty. I live in TX... we don’t camp or fish... my wife doesn’t like doing any of that anyhow... I don’t have time to off-road (I work ridiculous hours most weeks)... blah, blah, blah... you get the idea.

So I left... and got a used Porsche Macan GTS. Then I ECU-tuned it as well. It’s fast. Very fast for a CUV... about 400 ponies. There are very few other CUVs or SUVs that are faster (Macan Turbo... Stelvio Quadrifolio... Lambo Urus... You get the idea). It handles better than 95% of the cars on the road as well.

Then, later in the year, I decided I’d had enough of my wife’s family hauler as well... so we got a brand new LR Discovery HSE Turbo Diesel. It is H.O.T. One of the coolest looking SUVs on the road IMO.

So... here I am... Am I happy with our choices?.. I don’t know... Let me explain...

First.. the Land Rover. Damn. Beautiful SUV. Diesel has RIDICULOUS torque. Ungodly. Plenty of luxury. Tech is wonderful. Still a little “tough” looking as well. But not too big, and not too small. We bought beginning of March. It’s been in the shop 3 times already for a total of about a month. Mostly minor stuff (creaks, rattles, some tech glitches) and one middle-sized issue (air suspension - replaced compressor). Will I do it again? Probably not. We do live VERY close to the dealership... so dropping off and getting a loaner is a piece of cake. But still... no one LIKES having their car in the shop...soooooo....

Now the Porsche. Man, now this is German Engineering at its finest. Well built. Solid as a tank. Drive it like a race car and it begs to keep going. Most amazing car I’ve every owned. I’m on the forums and in the P-car world now.... and it just sucks you in. BUUUUUUTTT... G Damn it’s expensive. Look up “the Porsche Tax” and you’ll see what I mean. I went into ownership with eyes wide open... I’m a car guy, so I researched heavily and knew what I was doing. But da’yam... it’s just a different world. I’ve combo’d my maintenance and upkeep between dealer and Indy shop (and some myself)... so I keep things in check. But still...

Every. Single. Week. I ask if I should have kept my Runner. I love, and I mean LOVE my GTS. I love driving it. I love looking at it. I love washing it. But it’s just tough to drive something so (nice) every day, with kids, and construction, and stupid people, and small parking spaces... yada, yada, yada... you get the idea. With the Runner, you just drove it. I didn’t worry. I didn’t think. Just drive. And it was cool. And I like that. And I miss it. But now I am used to driving this beast. A street-oriented beast. So what do I do now? I’ve considered going back to a Runner... but I don’t think I’d be happy. But I just can’t seem to find another option... yet. Who knows... I have another year before I have to make some decisions. My GTS had high mileage when I bought it, so I need to decide if I’m going to get rid of it while it’s still worth a chunk of change, or just try to ride it off into the sunset and hope and pray something catastrophic doesn’t happen to that puppy.

Here are the two current rides I mentioned....
/Users/KRIS/Downloads/IMG_2197.JPG
/Users/KRIS/Downloads/57825716531__27F5098B-C6FE-419D-9775-33C15833983E.JPG

Can you perhaps get a used 4R and keep the other cars, and have all the options you enjoy available?

 

[2016 4Runner SR5]

I have a 2016 4Runner and a 2019 Highlander. Highlander is still an SUV in my mind being AWD and I threw some larger that stock aggressive AT tires under it. I love them both for different reasons.

 

[DAW89446]

I can’t think of any SUV other than my 4Runner that I’d want to own and drive. Unless an Outback qualifies. My 2012 Outback might be ready to be replaced in a few years ...

 

[GreenMountainOwl]

I have a 2016 4Runner and a 2019 Highlander. Highlander is still an SUV in my mind being AWD and I threw some larger that stock aggressive AT tires under it. I love them both for different reasons.

My wife is thinking about a Highlander as her Edge is getting too small to take two kids and all of their stuff places. I’d be curious on your experience with the HL and what mods you’ve done to yours. The more roles it could fill, the more likely I’d be to want her to buy it!

 

[2016 4Runner SR5]

My wife is thinking about a Highlander as her Edge is getting too small to take two kids and all of their stuff places. I’d be curious on your experience with the HL and what mods you’ve done to yours. The more roles it could fill, the more likely I’d be to want her to buy it!

I absolutely love everything about it. Really haven't done much as far as mods go. It has pretty much everything I could want it to have in stock form. It's a 2019 AWD V6, has the OEM all weather mats, nav, Bluetooth, power everything including the tailgate, boat load of USB ports, 3rd row that actually fits a small adult. My wife is 5'7" 120 pounds and she fits back there comfortably for a local ish trip. Really the only mods I have done so far are debadge it and I removed the 245/60/18 street tires and installed 265/60/18 Falken Wildpeak AT3W tires. I did this 5 days after I bought it, it only had 118 miles on it so can't speak for fuel economy stock but I took a 400 mile trip with it, left the house with 200 miles on the ticker, returned with 600 miles on it, and I averaged 24 MPG with the larger tires and driving at about 75 MPH most of the trip. I can't say enough how great a vehicle it is so far. I highly recommend it, I'm sure your wife will love it.

 

[Shiftless Joe]

A Jaguar F-Pace SVR if I had the finances for it.

 

[ForRun]

I need to see a couple year history but will be watching the upcoming Bronco, ford is being tight lipped about when the full size is being released. Twin turbo will bring good power and good mpg